Tell me why I should or should not switch to fuel injection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuel injection or no fuel injection

  • Go Fuel injection

    Votes: 21 63.6%

  • Stay with carb

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Total voters
    33
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Just curious, you seem to put down the older guys (I am one) for their street rods and then you go on to say you're doing a late model 5.7 in your Dart. So tell me how are you any different?
And yes, I had a 37 Ford with a LS3 that went down the road with the A/C on at 80 mph and still got 25 mpg.
 
FI is just like overdrive. You have to drive it enough to justify the cost. They are more expensive by far than a typical carb, when you factor in all the fuel system mods.
Also, look at the Fitech thread. It goes on for dozens of pages about issues. Also, are you a mechanic, or are you an electronics tech?
And in closing, i have one carb that has never worked right. Most of my carbs have been on my cars for years without any issues. Those guys in the old days with all the carb issues didn't know how to tune them. Not that I'm an expert.
 
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but how do the aftermarket efi setups deal with pinging? Late model oem FI setups have knock sensors. Do the retrofit systems include knock sensors?
 
retroron said:
Mine does, fits in the cavity on the block that it was designed for
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Its cool to tune over 700 horses on a street car from the drivers seat, timing , fuel and everything. I just needed more vacuum and changed to a one size smaller solid roller w/ a bigger lobe separation to get it, won`t lose very much at all. What if it does lose 10-12 h.p.? I seem to have plenty. I put about 25-30 miles on mine everytime I start it, even when it`s hi 90`s w/ hi humidity , that`s the way Ive been testing all the fan combinations.
 
furyus2 said:
FI is just like overdrive. You have to drive it enough to justify the cost. They are more expensive by far than a typical carb, when you factor in all the fuel system mods.
Also, look at the Fitech thread. It goes on for dozens of pages about issues. Also, are you a mechanic, or are you an electronics tech?
And in closing, i have one carb that has never worked right. Most of my carbs have been on my cars for years without any issues. Those guys in the old days with all the carb issues didn't know how to tune them. Not that I'm an expert.
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With all the stuff in my f.i. system, which I can tune from the drivers seat, it cost less than what 3 big carbs would cost. And , other than too much lobe seperation on my cam , I haven`t had any of the troubles that the guys keep posting about on here!
 
First off, my cars only have one carb each. You can't compare the price of 3 carbs for 3 cars to one car with FI. Second, quantify "Big". I have a 650, a 750, and a 600.
Second, I have yet to have to tear my engine down due to a cam LSA not being compatible with my carb. Last, to repeat, it depends on if the op is more of a mechanic, than an electronics person. I never said anything against FI, except to point out that alot of others have had issues. For me, it's not worth the expense, time, and I don't use the cars enough to justify it.
 
I went with Fitech for one big reason, I got fed up with the **** gas that they put out that boiled out of the bowls and into my intake on any warm spring day because of winter blend. F'n stupid government. Gas doesn't boil at 56 psi.
 
rustycowll69 said:
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but how do the aftermarket efi setups deal with pinging? Late model oem FI setups have knock sensors. Do the retrofit systems include knock sensors?
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Not necessarily, but you cannot protect against everything, and you get what you pay for so to speak. Just like a distributor, you are supposed to TUNE the system. Properly done, "it works." Not all OEM have knock sensors. The Magnum mopars don't
 
furyus2 said:
First off, my cars only have one carb each. You can't compare the price of 3 carbs for 3 cars to one car with FI. Second, quantify "Big". I have a 650, a 750, and a 600.
Second, I have yet to have to tear my engine down due to a cam LSA not being compatible with my carb. Last, to repeat, it depends on if the op is more of a mechanic, than an electronics person. I never said anything against FI, except to point out that alot of others have had issues. For me, it's not worth the expense, time, and I don't use the cars enough to justify it.
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New big carbs are way more expensive than ur little ones.
New 1000 to 1200 cfm carbs are expensive .
The reason I had to change cams was, I had the engine built before I decided to go to f.inj. , not knowing anything about back then. My cam was suited to a1150 or so carb. for my set up.
Wheather u can justify it or not is moot, why do u mess w/ an old car at all if u cant justify spending money on it ?
Most people spend recreational money on something , boat , skiing , fishing , racing , hunting .
You must be one of the sit on ur but and do nothing crowd.
My car is just a toy----------
 
For me it would depend on the intended use for the car. If it is an everyday driver that is gonna be used for long trips and used in all weather conditions, interstate driving, conjested traffic, etc I would say EFI. If it's a car you plan on cruising on nice summer days and lazy Sundays putting 500 miles a year on or a car you put in car shows id stick to carb!
 
famous bob said:
New big carbs are way more expensive than ur little ones.
New 1000 to 1200 cfm carbs are expensive .
The reason I had to change cams was, I had the engine built before I decided to go to f.inj. , not knowing anything about back then. My cam was suited to a1150 or so carb. for my set up.
Wheather u can justify it or not is moot, why do u mess w/ an old car at all if u cant justify spending money on it ?
Most people spend recreational money on something , boat , skiing , fishing , racing , hunting .
You must be one of the sit on ur but and do nothing crowd.
My car is just a toy----------
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Ok. So since you don't have a valid comparison, you take to personal attacks. Childish. Sorry, but my carbs are average size for the average person. They are not little. Most people don't use dominator carbs. The ones who argue the loudest, are the ones trying hardest to force their point of view on others. And no, I don't sit on my butt. I still have a job. And, you're arguing all by yourself. I said repeatedly that you have to be able to justify the cost compared to usage. I never said don't do it. And so is this something personal? Lots of others said don't, and your not attacking them.
 
something has yet to be mentioned. Oil contamination by excess fuel. One of the most beneficial advantages of FI is fuel control, especially in warming up situations. Because fuel is controlled so well in FI, you get engines lasting 300-400K. You get oil changes lasting 5K miles before the oil begins to change color. I remember oil changes on carbed engines being nasty in 3K miles. You change the oil, and 50 or 100 miles later the oil is damn near black again.
 
To a point, cost and resale value means nothing to me.
I'm building MY car for ME.
I want performance, looks and drive ability. ....I'll be dead someday, but to quote Frank, I did it my way.

FI? That's a big 10/4

Jeff
 
furyus2 said:
Ok. So since you don't have a valid comparison, you take to personal attacks. Childish. Sorry, but my carbs are average size for the average person. They are not little. Most people don't use dominator carbs. The ones who argue the loudest, are the ones trying hardest to force their point of view on others. And no, I don't sit on my butt. I still have a job. And, you're arguing all by yourself. I said repeatedly that you have to be able to justify the cost compared to usage. I never said don't do it. And so is this something personal? Lots of others said don't, and your not attacking them.
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Sounds like ur trying to force ur point of view on all of us. Just because u do`t understand efi, or can`t afford it , don`t mean ---- to the rest of us who use it and like it. I built my engine to haul ***, then changed my mind to efi, deligating the "now" cam change.
And yes ur 600-650 carbs are small, I cant think of a car I`ve had , but one that used a carb that small. U need to go argue w/ someone else, I`m done w/ this ---------NO POINT TO IT !
 
I have a FiTech and Tanks Inc tank on my Coronet 318. It was a lot of effort to get it installed and there were problems with both. I like the idea of fuel injection but to get it 100% as drivable as a modern car takes thousands of hours in a engine cell running the engine over every possible scenario and creating a fuel map that work well everywhere. The Coronet runs ok now but still have a few corner case drivability glitches that I can't have my Daughters Duster do. I know how to handle them in real time in an intersection. The plan now is her Duster will get a Demon Carb.
 
Don't mistake any aftermarket system for being as good as OEM, because none of them are..as far as drivability goes in my experience.
 
retroron said:
Just curious, you seem to put down the older guys (I am one) for their street rods and then you go on to say you're doing a late model 5.7 in your Dart. So tell me how are you any different?
And yes, I had a 37 Ford with a LS3 that went down the road with the A/C on at 80 mph and still got 25 mpg.
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You might want to read that again more carefully ---it did not sound like a "put down" at all


"we may be heading there" and "depends on what you do....... etc

For myself, at 70, I AM DONE with carburetors. Hot soak and startup are a big issue. The sad news is I'm old enough that by the time I might get halfway proficient with tuning, I'll be senile
 
I have a dual quad FiTech on a tunnel ram. Had 390s, then 600s, then a single 750.
I've driven it everywhere, every type of weather, short or long distance, with all combos. I don't miss carbs at all. Tuning is simple, from the driver's seat, and I can keep tabs on many parameters easily and accurately.
It made me rethink other items, tank, alternator, wiring, fuse box, fan, linkage, etc. I learned a great deal and made many positive changes.
Once I got the efi it was a few simple things I noticed that made me think why aren't carbs better by now? The throttle bodies have the return spring built into them, and for me that eliminated multiple springs and brackets. And right out of the box, why do I have to remove the carb to adjust the rear fast idle?

I had to learn myself on carbs, then on efi, not a big deal. I had an efi turbo car for decades and knew less about that than I know now. I also never worried about a sensor going bad on that car when driving it, and I don't now.
I too was nervous based on all the info and threads of issues people were having, but soon realized most stem from confusion or need for information/education.

The reality is you will never find threads that go on for pages from people who are happy with no issues, on any topic. It's similar to a call center that receives nothing but compliments and thank you's.
 
matthon said:
om people who are happy with no issues, on any topic. It's similar to a call center that receives nothing but compliments and thank you's.
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............LMAO and you will never find a thread that goes on for pages where everybody is perfectly happy with carbs, either !!!!
 
Cope said:
This is why FI blows. It dont like big lumpy cams.
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That's completely wrong. Sure, with efi running speed density and having a weak or fluctuating vac signal, you can have tuning issues. If that's the case then you can use alpha-n or go with maf.
 
famous bob said:
Sounds like ur trying to force ur point of view on all of us. Just because u do`t understand efi, or can`t afford it , don`t mean ---- to the rest of us who use it and like it. I built my engine to haul ***, then changed my mind to efi, deligating the "now" cam change.
And yes ur 600-650 carbs are small, I cant think of a car I`ve had , but one that used a carb that small. U need to go argue w/ someone else, I`m done w/ this ---------NO POINT TO IT !
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I'm telling you for the hundredth time, I'm not arguing with you. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, so find someone else to try to fight with. As for carb size, it sure seems like you're trying to compensate for something.
 
Cope said:
This is why FI blows. It dont like big lumpy cams.
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And there is no way I would give up a 110 or 108LSA just to make the EFI happy. If/when my 230/110 cam dies, I'm for sure going tighter on the next one, like 106, I'm really itching to try one. And that will likely put the overlap back into the 70s, and pull the idle vacuum down to under 10 inches, somewhat unstable, and pulsing like my heartbeat after a 6k run. What's an EFI gonna do with that? Oh I know, switch to Alpha-N and batch it. Wait what? lol.
 
Alpha-N and batch. Hmmm, where have I seen that before? Oh gosh that sounds like a carb on a big plenum!
Hang on, I'm thinking at 56psi, the fuel will be somewhat more willing to burn, so I give a point to the EFI for that, despite it now behaving somewhat like a glorified carb,lol.
Of course at WOT,and after the torque peak, there may not be time enough for the EFI to remain in sequential, nor any point, so it could be programmed back into, dare I say it, batch,lol.
And with the big lumpy cam, the EFI may need to stay in batch to something like 2000/2200 rpm.
So then that fancy EFI will be in sequential from say 2200 to 4400, Yippee! Of course with that big lumpy cam, a guy almost has to run a big rear gear...... and that leads to an overdrive...... and that leads to cruising at 2100....... You know that's still in batch right? and Alpha-N right? With no feedback loop right? Yippee!
Ok,Ok I know. You can fix that. And the vast majority of HotRodders are gonna have smaller cams, that EFI can manage in sequential.
The point is; in AJ's opinion,
Cope nailed it
 
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But I tell you what, pilgrim; I'd be willing to give a big fat modern TBI a go,lol. They are impervious to being stuffed into corners, jumping, and running while on two wheels, or even upside down, backwards, and sliding on the roof at 100 mph, while on fire......or something like that,lol
 
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