Time to order wheels and tires.

[72bluNblu]

Those are nice too.
One thing I found was with a 4.5 backspace in the back, the tire is off center toward the inside about an inch.
On my car a 215/15 has about 1/2 inch or less to the leaf springs and 1.5 inches to the fender lip.
I'm going to get some exact measurements before long here, but it looks like I will try an 8 inch rim with about 3.5 to 3.75 backspace.
So far as I can tell an 18 with a 40 series tire fits the front ok with the stock 4.5 backspace because it keeps the tire well inside the fender.
Like I said though, I have to get out there and measure for sure.

With an 8.25” rear a 8” rim with 4.5” of backspace will be pretty close to centered. It will be a little closer to the springs, but you need more clearance to the quarters than you do to the springs.

Unless you have a non-A body width rear axle, you won’t be anywhere near centered with an 8” rim and anything less than 4.5” of backspace. If you’ve got a Dart with an A-body 8 3/4 and BBP axles you should end up with about 6” from the wheel mount to the springs, and about 5” from the wheel mount to the quarters. With an 18” rim and typical tire overhangs, that means you want close to 5” of backspace on an 8” rim with the springs in the stock location.

why are you getting into this?
you just can't leave it alone ? stop quoting me and I will leave you to your lonely internet life.
or better yet , the ignore feature works pretty well too , try it out....

Yeah, I’m gonna go with mrgtx on this one. Just telling someone to “measure” isn’t helpful. A tape measure by itself won’t give you accurate information, and I don’t see you telling anyone how to accurately measure their cars. Or how to then take those measurements and figure out the backspace and tire clearance. It’s true, none of that is all that hard to do. But you aren’t explaining how to do it, so you haven’t helped any.

So, I have to wonder myself why you keep posting when you’re not adding anything useful to the conversation. You obviously don’t seem to need the information that’s being covered, so, don’t read the thread. Pretty simple.

 

[Bulldozer]

With an 8.25” rear a 8” rim with 4.5” of backspace will be pretty close to centered. It will be a little closer to the springs, but you need more clearance to the quarters than you do to the springs.

Unless you have a non-A body width rear axle, you won’t be anywhere near centered with an 8” rim and anything less than 4.5” of backspace. If you’ve got a Dart with an A-body 8 3/4 and BBP axles you should end up with about 6” from the wheel mount to the springs, and about 5” from the wheel mount to the quarters. With an 18” rim and typical tire overhangs, that means you want close to 5” of backspace on an 8” rim with the springs in the stock location.



Yeah, I’m gonna go with mrgtx on this one. Just telling someone to “measure” isn’t helpful. A tape measure by itself won’t give you accurate information, and I don’t see you telling anyone how to accurately measure their cars. Or how to then take those measurements and figure out the backspace and tire clearance. It’s true, none of that is all that hard to do. But you aren’t explaining how to do it, so you haven’t helped any.

So, I have to wonder myself why you keep posting when you’re not adding anything useful to the conversation. You obviously don’t seem to need the information that’s being covered, so, don’t read the thread. Pretty simple.

with all due respect sir, I have been building buying, measuring and doing all my own homework for 35 years. at the moment , I have 4 different sets of wheels and tires for my charger. I use a tape measure and a little math to figure everything out. guess what ? I have never bought a wrong set of wheels and tires that didn't fit or that I had to return. you can sit here and guess every measurement , but you know as well as I do , every vehicle has it's individual tolerances and variables. the only way to truly know is to measure the SPECIFIC vehicle you are working on. which means getting the thing put together with the suspension loaded up and get to measuring. I had someone trying to say a 275/60/15 on a 15x10 wouldn't work on a stock 73 duster with a 7 1/4 rear !! I ran that **** for years without one rub in front . he showed pics of his touching the front of the wheel well!! this is why you can't just read **** on the internet , you have to measure your own car.
have a good day sir.
one more thing , if Mr. gtx internet stalker would stop alerting me because of his retarded quoting , I would have passed on this thread yesterday.

 

[TrailBeast]

With an 8.25” rear a 8” rim with 4.5” of backspace will be pretty close to centered. It will be a little closer to the springs, but you need more clearance to the quarters than you do to the springs.

Dart or Duster style bodies?

 

[MRGTX]

...I will leave you to your lonely internet life....

You're projecting.

 

[MRGTX]

...one more thing , if Mr. gtx internet stalker would stop alerting me because of his retarded quoting , I would have passed on this thread yesterday.

You have to admit that calling the quote notification feature of the forum "stalking" is a pretty darned loose interpretation of the concept.

Anyway, you do have a point that there are variations from car to car and you do have to use your head when applying internet forum advice.

However, if your buddy just put some spacers on his spring mounts, that 275/60 probably would have been fine. Worst case scenario, you can usually make adjustments to correct for oddball stuff and knowing what others have run and how they figured it out is still valuable information.

 

[Bulldozer]

You're projecting.

good grief dude , give it a rest already .

 

[MRGTX]

good grief dude , give it a rest already .

Well, I'll just say why I even noticed your comment; the concept of anyone here being "lazy" struck a nerve.

It just might be the case that people who own humble old cars like A-Body Mopars are the least lazy kind of gear head. Most of us work for a living, most of us can't/don't pay people to work on our cars. Many of us take pride in doing whatever we can do for ourselves.

Personally, I'm not a seasoned mechanic at all. I have a basic set of tools, a very tight budget and motivation. That's it. Thanks to this forum and especially people like @72bluNblu , I've replaced and rebuilt almost every mechanical component on my $700 Dart. I love that car and I'm proud of it even if I had a ****-ton of advice from this forum and even if it's worth less money than a center console for a Charger.

Basically, call people "lazy" at your own peril. If you can't deal with someone calling you out on a stupid, non-productive comment, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[72bluNblu]

Dart or Duster style bodies?

Dart. Duster has an extra 1" to the quarters. But it depends on the axle, and how wide you go with the tire. 4.5" of backspace works pretty good on a Duster with a 275/60/15 and an 8 3/4 with BBP axles, with a 215 you'd have a ton of room to the outside.

with all due respect sir, I have been building buying, measuring and doing all my own homework for 35 years. at the moment , I have 4 different sets of wheels and tires for my charger. I use a tape measure and a little math to figure everything out. guess what ? I have never bought a wrong set of wheels and tires that didn't fit or that I had to return. you can sit here and guess every measurement , but you know as well as I do , every vehicle has it's individual tolerances and variables. the only way to truly know is to measure the SPECIFIC vehicle you are working on. which means getting the thing put together with the suspension loaded up and get to measuring. I had someone trying to say a 275/60/15 on a 15x10 wouldn't work on a stock 73 duster with a 7 1/4 rear !! I ran that **** for years without one rub in front . he showed pics of his touching the front of the wheel well!! this is why you can't just read **** on the internet , you have to measure your own car.
have a good day sir.
one more thing , if Mr. gtx internet stalker would stop alerting me because of his retarded quoting , I would have passed on this thread yesterday.

Right, except 35 years ago you couldn't get 17" rims, or 18" rims that will clear the outer tie rod ends with over 6" of backspace so you can run 275's on the front. You couldn't get 13" rotors and 6 piston calipers that had different clearance requirements for the rims. You couldn't even get tires in more than a few different sizes that would actually fit, now you can choose from dozens of different height/width combinations if you run 17" or larger rims. So really, anything past about 10 years ago doesn't mean much at all.

Figuring out the backspacing for the rear axle is a piece of cake. For one car? I could have 8 different sets of rims for my Duster if I wanted, I only have to measure it once so who cares? Once you figure out the absolute biggest combination that will fit anything else is just extra.

And, I'm not guessing. Yes, the body tolerances on these cars do vary a bit, but it's usually by a 1/4" or less. Usually. And if someone is trying to fit a tire that will absolutely max out their wheel well, I tell them to measure their car. Because if it comes down to a 1/4" making or breaking the fit the body tolerance will make or break it. But if you could see my inbox, you'd see that it's filled with dozens of messages regarding tire and rim sizing, just covering the last few months. And measurements from dozens of different cars. Different years, different body styles, different axle and brake combinations. And I keep a spreadsheet of all of them, so I have a pretty darn good idea of the kinds of tolerances that the factory had.

Yes, I've been wrong. There are always exceptions, and I'm only human. And I DO tell people to measure, quite frequently in fact. And when I do, I actually tell them how, not just that they need to get a tape measure and stop asking people on the internet, which helps absolutely no one.

And, not everyone is good at math. Or spacial visualization. Or figuring out the difference between offset and backspace etc. So breaking out a tape measure doesn't help everyone.

 

[Bulldozer]

Well, I'll just say why I even noticed your comment; the concept of anyone here being "lazy" struck a nerve.

It just might be the case that people who own humble old cars like A-Body Mopars are the least lazy kind of gear head. Most of us work for a living, most of us can't/don't pay people to work on our cars. Many of us take pride in doing whatever we can do for ourselves.

Personally, I'm not a seasoned mechanic at all. I have a basic set of tools, a very tight budget and motivation. That's it. Thanks to this forum and especially people like @72bluNblu , I've replaced and rebuilt almost every mechanical component on my $700 Dart. I love that car and I'm proud of it even if I had a ****-ton of advice from this forum and even if it's worth less money than a center console for a Charger.

Basically, call people "lazy" at your own peril. If you can't deal with someone calling you out on a stupid, non-productive comment, I don't know what to tell you.

you can call me out on anything you want but that doesn't change the fact that you need to measure your own car instead of relying on some internet guessing and then bitching when it doesn't work out. so you go right ahead and keep ******* with me

 

[MRGTX]

you can call me out on anything you want but that doesn't change the fact that you need to measure your own car instead of relying on some internet guessing and then bitching when it doesn't work out. so you go right ahead and keep ******* with me

Where did you observe "bitching when it doesn't work out"?

Fortunately, nobody here is forced to help anyone else. @72bluNblu has been extremely generous with his knowledge and he deserves to be thanked for that. If someone takes his advice, is disappointed with the results and they have the nerve to "*****" to him...shame on them. I personally don't know if that has happened. I certainly hope not.

 

[Bulldozer]

Where did you observe "bitching when it doesn't work out"?

Fortunately, nobody here is forced to help anyone else. @72bluNblu has been extremely generous with his knowledge and he deserves to be thanked for that. If someone takes his advice, is disappointed with the results and they have the nerve to "*****" to him...shame on them. I personally don't know if that has happened. I certainly hope not.

*yawn*
I have more thank yous than you have posts. obviously you have nothing to offer here yourself except constant antagonizing.
have a great day

 

[MRGTX]

*yawn*
I have more thank yous than you have posts. obviously you have nothing to offer here yourself except constant antagonizing.
have a great day

So I asked you for examples of people bitching (about the help not working out) because I don't think it happens often if ever.
I also agreed with you on how crappy that would be if it were true.

Are you still working on that or can we just agree that you were totally off base with your scolding on "laziness" and get on with our lives?

 

[6pk2goDemon]

Will both of you >> @MRGTX & @73AbodEE kindly "knock it off" please.

Neither of you are contributing to this thread with your childish bickering

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

What's really going to suck for the OP is having to cut fender well lips for an extra 1/2" of clearance... And these old A-Bodies look way better with mini tubs and the widest tires that work with that. So why would you have the car about done with a rotisserie paint job and assembly and not have rims & tires picked out yet?

I would have started suspension and tires way before I decided to rotisserie paint the car?

 

[MRGTX]

Will both of you >> @MRGTX & @73AbodEE kindly "knock it off" please.

Neither of you are contributing to this thread with your childish bickering

Point taken.

 

[72bluNblu]

What's really going to suck for the OP is having to cut fender well lips for an extra 1/2" of clearance... And these old A-Bodies look way better with mini tubs and the widest tires that work with that. So why would you have the car about done with a rotisserie paint job and assembly and not have rims & tires picked out yet?

I would have started suspension and tires way before I decided to rotisserie paint the car?

He doesn't have to cut anything to run the tires he wants to run (245's) if he sets the backspace correctly. Mini-tubs are fine, but unless you're going to put down more than 500 hp its all just for looks and a waste of money anyway. You can run 275's on a Dart with a 1/2" spring offset kit that will bolt in with exception of moving the spring perches, no need to repaint anything. Those will handle plenty of ponies. If you want to run 335's then yeah you need mini-tubs, but honestly for what most people actually do with these cars it's a waste of time, money, and more money every time you buy a set of tires.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Still, seems backasswards to "fit rims and tires after a rotisserie paint job"? What if the rims that he likes don't come with the correct offsets and another 1/2" is needed? What if the tires he bought are 245's but bulge out more in the side walls buy 1/2" like some Dunlop tires do... To me it just sounds like "When I get all the body work done I'll just throw on whatever fits at Discount Tire".

I disagree, everyone needs minitubs and spring relocating. Who says 500 HP is enough? You can never have enough. I've never heard anyone say "With all due respect sir! Pull that damn 800 HP motor out! I only wanted 500 HP. Have a good day sir! I said good day!".

 

[72bluNblu]

Still, seems backasswards to "fit rims and tires after a rotisserie paint job"? What if the rims that he likes don't come with the correct offsets and another 1/2" is needed? What if the tires he bought are 245's but bulge out more in the side walls buy 1/2" like some Dunlop tires do... To me it just sounds like "When I get all the body work done I'll just throw on whatever fits at Discount Tire".

I disagree, everyone needs minitubs and spring relocating. Who says 500 HP is enough? You can never have enough. I've never heard anyone say "Pull that damn 800 HP motor out! I only wanted 500 HP".

Guess you've never talked to me. If I were to build the 340 in my Duster again I'd drop the compression ratio half a point, drop the cam down a step, and make my daily driving habit a lot easier to deal with. 350 to 400 hp in an A-body is plenty fun on the street and still everyday drivable. 800 hp in one of these cars makes it a trailer queen. Put 10k+ miles a year on it, drive it in the rain, in traffic, in 100*F and hotter weather, you won't want that 800 hp engine for that. I loved driving my Challenger for the 70k+ miles I put on it, it was just a plain jane 318 with headers and a 4 barrel. Fast? Not really. Still lot of fun though. Just depends on what you're doing.

As for the OP, unless your plan from the very beginning is to absolutely max out your tire size for the body there's no big mistake. You can't make up a 1/2" in the front anyway unless you actively push the fenders out, and even pre-bodywork doing that changes the lines of the car. You can see the bulge in the fenders from when I rolled mine. Yeah sure, in a perfect world it would be better to sort all that out before you start painting stuff, but unless you're willing to cut and push the bodywork it doesn't matter anyway. Lots of folks don't want to cut their cars to fit the next up tire.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

So you're saying all the guys with 392 Hemi's with 485 HP installed in their A-Bodies are sad, unhappy and not having fun.

Might be because they didn't do a mini tub and spring relocate...

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Guess you've never talked to me. If I were to build the 340 in my Duster again I'd drop the compression ratio half a point, drop the cam down a step, and make my daily driving habit a lot easier to deal with. 350 to 400 hp in an A-body is plenty fun on the street and still everyday drivable. 800 hp in one of these cars makes it a trailer queen. Put 10k+ miles a year on it, drive it in the rain, in traffic, in 100*F and hotter weather, you won't want that 800 hp engine for that. I loved driving my Challenger for the 70k+ miles I put on it, it was just a plain jane 318 with headers and a 4 barrel. Fast? Not really. Still lot of fun though. Just depends on what you're doing.

As for the OP, unless your plan from the very beginning is to absolutely max out your tire size for the body there's no big mistake. You can't make up a 1/2" in the front anyway unless you actively push the fenders out, and even pre-bodywork doing that changes the lines of the car. You can see the bulge in the fenders from when I rolled mine. Yeah sure, in a perfect world it would be better to sort all that out before you start painting stuff, but unless you're willing to cut and push the bodywork it doesn't matter anyway. Lots of folks don't want to cut their cars to fit the next up tire.

I just realized your trying to build a 300HP rear wheel drive car on 275 tires. That what I drive all through the winter in Michigan.

And it’s fun in the snow. Kinda weak for summer driving.

 

[swifty]

So why would you have the car about done with a rotisserie paint job and assembly and not have rims & tires picked out yet?

because I did not want to do any more body work than necessary. I had nice straight AMD quarters and I was not trying to get the widest tires possible. Even though was on rotisserie it was still done on the cheap. Way more than planned but still on a budget. Never wanted the biggest tires possible, just a cool looking car that drives well.

He doesn't have to cut anything to run the tires he wants to run (245's) if he sets the backspace correctly. Mini-tubs are fine, but unless you're going to put down more than 500 hp its all just for looks and a waste of money anyway.

I am looking for the best combination with stock body lines. I want it to drive and handle well also. I maybe should of posted this when I had it off rotisserie but with work everything is pretty busy so I wanted a good game plan for when it is time to measure and order. There are so many rims and tire combinations it is pretty easy to get overwhelmed. Bad news is car is back on rotisserie cause my buddy needed the lift to work on his 56 Chevy. Next week I hope to have running gear in.

 

[72bluNblu]

So you're saying all the guys with 392 Hemi's with 485 HP installed in their A-Bodies are sad, unhappy and not having fun.

Might be because they didn't do a mini tub and spring relocate...

Uh, no, that's not even close to what I said. Did I not say "more than 500 hp" when I was talking about mini-tubs? I did, post #41. Last time I checked, 485 was still less than 500. You don't need a mini-tub to deal with 485 hp. I have 295's on my Duster without one, that's plenty of tire for 485 hp if you tune your suspension correctly and use half decent tires. So yes, with 485 hp I still think a mini-tub and 335's is a waste of time and money.

And those guys are still using a modern engine, injection, ECU's, roller cams and all the new tech goodies to keep those engines streetable at that horsepower. My comments about my 340 being a little hotter than is easy for daily driving and commuting are referring to a stock stroke 340 that's about half a step more unruly than I would build again if I had I it to do over. I still use it as my daily driver, and I'm not stopping. Just making the observation that the last couple of things I did in taking it over 400hp added some challenges to driving it in traffic on the freeway that I could have avoided had I not done that. And it's a hydraulic flat tappet cam engine with a 750 double pumper, so different choices (injection, roller cam, aluminum heads, etc) could make more power and have it be more streetable. But live and learn.

I just realized your trying to build a 300HP rear wheel drive car on 275 tires. That what I drive all through the winter in Michigan.

And it’s fun in the snow. Kinda weak for summer driving.

Right, just another fair weather musclecar driver. Am I supposed to be impressed? I know all kinds of fair weather muscle car guys with more horsepower than brains or driving ability, and their cars are parked in the garage or on a trailer when I'm out having fun. Just like yours is.

And again with the reading comprehension. I said a 350-400 hp A-body is plenty to have fun. Who's building a 300 hp car? Because I'm not.

because I did not want to do any more body work than necessary. I had nice straight AMD quarters and I was not trying to get the widest tires possible. Even though was on rotisserie it was still done on the cheap. Way more than planned but still on a budget. Never wanted the biggest tires possible, just a cool looking car that drives well.

I am looking for the best combination with stock body lines. I want it to drive and handle well also. I maybe should of posted this when I had it off rotisserie but with work everything is pretty busy so I wanted a good game plan for when it is time to measure and order. There are so many rims and tire combinations it is pretty easy to get overwhelmed. Bad news is car is back on rotisserie cause my buddy needed the lift to work on his 56 Chevy. Next week I hope to have running gear in.

Nothing wrong with that. It's your car, and you can do whatever you want with it. Your wheel/tire choices should give you a great car to drive that will handle decent and look good without having to chop everything up, or cost you thousands of dollars every time you need new tires.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Uh, no, that's not even close to what I said. Did I not say "more than 500 hp" when I was talking about mini-tubs? I did, post #41. Last time I checked, 485 was still less than 500. You don't need a mini-tub to deal with 485 hp. I have 295's on my Duster without one, that's plenty of tire for 485 hp if you tune your suspension correctly and use half decent tires. So yes, with 485 hp I still think a mini-tub and 335's is a waste of time and money.

And those guys are still using a modern engine, injection, ECU's, roller cams and all the new tech goodies to keep those engines streetable at that horsepower. My comments about my 340 being a little hotter than is easy for daily driving and commuting are referring to a stock stroke 340 that's about half a step more unruly than I would build again if I had I it to do over. I still use it as my daily driver, and I'm not stopping. Just making the observation that the last couple of things I did in taking it over 400hp added some challenges to driving it in traffic on the freeway that I could have avoided had I not done that. And it's a hydraulic flat tappet cam engine with a 750 double pumper, so different choices (injection, roller cam, aluminum heads, etc) could make more power and have it be more streetable. But live and learn.



Right, just another fair weather musclecar driver. Am I supposed to be impressed? I know all kinds of fair weather muscle car guys with more horsepower than brains or driving ability, and their cars are parked in the garage or on a trailer when I'm out having fun. Just like yours is.

And again with the reading comprehension. I said a 350-400 hp A-body is plenty to have fun. Who's building a 300 hp car? Because I'm not.



Nothing wrong with that. It's your car, and you can do whatever you want with it. Your wheel/tire choices should give you a great car to drive that will handle decent and look good without having to chop everything up, or cost you thousands of dollars every time you need new tires.

Fair weather muscle car driver? I would love to see you drive in Michigan winter weather! I drive daily in several inches of snow over winter. And then comments about horsepower and brains, LOL. And your assumption that my cars are trailer queens, when I dive my cars...

Here's the fact, you just keep spewing the same information over and over thousands of times on here. You installed a 1/2" spring relocate kit on your car, (something I did 32 years ago on my 'cuda then several other Mopar's after that). It's not anything new or innovative. It's only real value is to newbies that find it interesting because they have never done it before. I often scratch my head as to why you keep posting that same crap over and over and over? Just post it in "How Too Articles" and be done? I guess your ego needs it.

Then you write about 'handling" when I have never read a single thing about you competing in autocross, road racing, any SCCA events. Hell, you even dis NHRA and AHRA racing. I run in SCCA and AHRA. You posted stuff about Mary Pozzi a while back like you know her. She's actually a friend of mine. I guess your ego needed another boost.

So what do you actually do with your Duster? Drive it on the street sometimes is about all I have read. You really don't need soft compound 295 tires, SPC uppers, QA1 lowers and leaf spring sliders to drive a pieced together Duster on the street. But you portray yourself as "the handling expert" when all I see is you got some tires to fit. Then you are a stone wall to anybody doing anything different than what you did to your Duster. And in your mind mini tubs make a car a trailer queen.

As far as your tires go, you run soft compound tires that wear out quickly in street driving? (Kinda reminds me of the days of running Goodyear GSC's on the street to have them worn out in 4k miles). So you lecture me about 355's costing thousands more and mini tubs and spring relocating are all a waste of money when they cost about the same? Your car is nothing but a collection of expensive parts just so you can drive around on the street.

There is a big difference between you and I, I actually get my cars done, complete with paint. And it doesn't take 8 years.

 

[Mopar Tim]

Jeeezz!!!! @72bluNblu has helped plenty of guys with there wheel fitment. Including me. It is JUST math but some guys are not good with JUST math. If he was not available then we would have to do the math, but why? @72bluNblu is gracious with his time and helps us out. Nuff said IMO.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Jeeezz!!!! @72bluNblu has helped plenty of guys with there wheel fitment. Including me. It is JUST math but some guys are not good with JUST math. If he was not available then we would have to do the math, but why? @72bluNblu is gracious with his time and helps us out. Nuff said IMO.

His info only gets you so far.