Tire shop over torqued lug nuts (1969 Dart). Should I redo it?

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CFD244 said:
You change passenger car and pick up tires with hand tools? Wow...I am impressed :thumbsup:
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Yes. In fact, I won the Georgia state tire rodeo 3 years in a row when I was a 20 something kid. With an old Coats 30-30 with passenger car tires and with hand tools on 7.50-16 lock rings. We didn't air them up due to liability. I don't remember my quickest time, but it was under a minute for hand changing.
 
kenelder said:
Has anyone ever had a lug nut come loose while driving? It really doesn't take even 55 lbs. For years I've used a 4 way and tighten them just like an oil filter- 1/4 turn after tight. I have not checked the actual torque on mine but I think it's probably closer to 30 lbs. After this thread I'm going to have to go check mine with a torque wrench. Never had one come loose though. There is really very little that would make them loosen.....
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I've busted 7/16 studs on a car while I was driving. HARD shifting automatic with snubber-less traction bars (my fault). Does that count?
One day I noticed a stud missing.
Couple days later, another.
On the way to the parts store, for five new studs, right rear departed.
 
92b said:
If she was 16 when she learned to drive it and the car was anywhere close to new she is probably in her sixties. Most young people today would have to go way out of their way to learn how to drive a stick car.
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Bingo! 65 street wedge, in 1972. She's in her early sixties, just a youngster, lol.
 
33IMP said:
I've busted 7/16 studs on a car while I was driving. HARD shifting automatic with snubber-less traction bars (my fault). Does that count?
One day I noticed a stud missing.
Couple days later, another.
On the way to the parts store, for five new studs, right rear departed.
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Had the same thing happen years ago with a 340/four speed.
Started feeling a vibration in the rear, and as I was pulling over the right rear wheel decided it would rather be someplace else.
Drilled out the axles and it got 1/2" studs on both sides. Also some extensive rear quarter work.
Although I couldn't prove it, at the time I suspected some malicious tomfoolery from a PO'ed Mustang owner who recently had a real good view of my taillights... But those 7/16 studs always seemed a little wimpy to me, so who knows.
 
I always cringed on all of these TV shows especially Overhaulin' where Chip Foose was putting his high dollar wheels on these cars and EVERY time they run those fuckin lug nuts on with an impact gun, all shows.
 
lemondana said:
I always cringed on all of these TV shows especially Overhaulin' where Chip Foose was putting his high dollar wheels on these cars and EVERY time they run those fuckin lug nuts on with an impact gun, all shows.
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The gun sound racy and has viewer appeal. LOL
 
CFD244 said:
Don't they work in both directions? Mine has a reversible ratchet....To be honest though, I've never had to torque anything CCW.
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Yes, they work in both directions, just like the toilets our criminal cousins down under use.
1764562576033.jpeg
 
cb474 said:
I have a 1969 Dart with the original steel wheels. I was getting new tires and I don't know how many times I told them the spec for the lug nuts was 55 ft lbs of torque.

When they were done they claimed some of lug bolts on one wheel were slipping and they couldn't torque it enough. They tried to convince me on this basis that the holes in the wheels were also wearing out; that the lug nuts were worn out, because they shouldn't be conical shaped (i.e. flat where they seat into the wheel); and that I probably need all new wheels. This was a supposedly respectable tire shop that knew about old cars.

Anyway, when I got home I decided to take off the wheel in question to look at what it would take to replace the slipping lug bolts (see it they were swaged or not). The lug nuts were almost impossible to loosen. I had that wheel on and off a bunch of times when I was working on the brakes recently and I knew this was way too tight. I was using as a breaker bar one of those old torque wrenches with the needle that points to the torque level and I could see it was taking 80 to 90 ft lbs, before the lug nuts started to move. Also there were little shavings of metal that came off the wheels (or maybe the nuts) as I loosened the lug nuts, which I have never seen before when removing the wheels on this car.

When I put the wheel back on I torqued it properly and in fact none of the lug bolts slipped (which makes me think if it really was slipping, it was because they were over torquing it--but I don't even know at this point that I believe it was slipping).

So should I care that the other three wheels are probably also over torqued? Should I take them off and do it correctly? Or not worry about it until I have to take them off again?
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That's the reason I always do my own tire mounting. I had tire jerkers break off studs, on my 69' dart, by going left to remove instead of right on the left side. My first tire install on my 2005 RAM 2500, was stripped out on a nut. I trust no one anymore. I think it is the Mustang, you need to replace the nuts after removing them, with new ones.
 
The stupid stainless steel capped lugs
They swell up what a pia
My fav are porsche titanium lugs
Feel like plastic
 
Wow, I had no idea how much discussion this thread would inspire.

I did end up removing the wheels, inspecting them, and retorquing everything to 55 ft lbs. It turned out that it was only the one wheel with left handed lug nuts (the rear driver's side wheel) that was overtorqued. The other three seemed like they were only torqued to 40 ft lbs (at least that's how much torque showed on the beam torque wrench, before they started to loosen).

I don't know why they only overtorqued the wheel with the left handed lug nuts. Maybe because they had convinced themselves that the lug studs were slipping in the hub and so kept trying to tighten them? Maybe they didn't realize their torque wrench was set to the wrong setting (I did see them use a torque wrench)?

The holes in the wheel do seem kind of worn. I don't know if it matters. And also the lug nuts are pretty beaten up on the surface that mounts against the wheel. I wonder if I should get new lug nuts, because maybe a smoother surface would cause less wear and tear on the wheels? (I tried to attach images but they all came out as just solid blocks of color, I don't know why.)
 
This is a REAL easy fix. All you need is one of these.


The absolute correct way is with a drill press, but if you're really careful and hold a hand drill good and STRAIGHT you can do it. ALL you need to do is simply very lightly dress the 60 degree seats in the wheel until they clean up and NO MORE. You're not trying to drill SLAM through the wheel. Just dress the 60 degree seat is ALL. You might invest in new lug nuts. They're certainly cheap enough. Although, I'd get some nice solid chrome acorn nuts.
 
We spun a stud once...PITA to get nut off. Ended up taking to shop and having them tack the stud on backside. Won't spin now, just snap lol. :lol: That lead to Dad getting me a welder!:thumbsup:
 

RustyRatRod said:
This is a REAL easy fix. All you need is one of these.


The absolute correct way is with a drill press, but if you're really careful and hold a hand drill good and STRAIGHT you can do it. ALL you need to do is simply very lightly dress the 60 degree seats in the wheel until they clean up and NO MORE. You're not trying to drill SLAM through the wheel. Just dress the 60 degree seat is ALL. You might invest in new lug nuts. They're certainly cheap enough. Although, I'd get some nice solid chrome acorn nuts.
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Ah, good idea. Yeah, the guys at the tire shop tried to convince me that all knew wheels was the only solution.

I would be a little afraid with a drill that it would be easy to overdo it. What about just sanding down the mating surface in the holes on the wheels by hand? Or is that likely to mess up the sixty degree angle?
 
cb474 said:
Ah, good idea. Yeah, the guys at the tire shop tried to convince me that all knew wheels was the only solution.

I would be a little afraid with a drill that it would be easy to overdo it. What about just sanding down the mating surface in the holes on the wheels by hand? Or is that likely to mess up the sixty degree angle?
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No, you really need to maintain that 60 degrees. It's that important.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No, you really need to maintain that 60 degrees. It's that important.
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Okay, thanks.

Is the bit you linked to the proper 60 degrees? It says it makes and 82 degree countersink. Doesn't that mean it's going to create a 59 degree angle in the lug seat? Or does one degree not matter? Or am I misunderstanding the specifications on that drill bit?
 
cb474 said:
Okay, thanks.

Is the bit you linked to the proper 60 degrees? It says it makes and 82 degree countersink. Doesn't that mean it's going to create a 59 degree angle in the lug seat? Or does one degree not matter? Or am I misunderstanding the specifications on that drill bit?
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It does? Let me go look at it again. My stupid *** probably linked the wrong one.
 
cb474 said:
Searching around online, it seems like 82 degrees is the standard on these bits for some reason.
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I'm sorry, I linked the wrong dang one. It's this one. Trust me. This is something you can do. Just go really slow with light pressure. A very little bit at the time and check between cuts. Don't cut very long at all. All you're looking for is a clean, unifom seat. You're not trying to enlarge anything.

 
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