To dyno or not to dyno?

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Can’t believe we all looked passed this. What was the original bet?
They said the motor would only make around 230 hp, I said it would be closer to 300 hp, maybe 10 or so off. Basically they were doubting all the work I did, so I said the loser pays the equal cost of the dyno session. So if I lost, it would cost me double. When I got back to them with the actual cost, they said hell no and they will do like 100 bucks. So that was not worth it for all that at the time and they backed off.
 
They said the motor would only make around 230 hp, I said it would be closer to 300 hp, maybe 10 or so off. Basically they were doubting all the work I did, so I said the loser pays the equal cost of the dyno session. So if I lost, it would cost me double. When I got back to them with the actual cost, they said hell no and they will do like 100 bucks. So that was not worth it for all that at the time and they backed off.
Your engine should definitely do way better than 230 hp.
 
I think your 300 +- 10 is pretty close. I always guess low and I honestly think you’ll be about 280.
 
IF you are worried about cam break in and don mind the cost then go for it. HP numbers are a double edged sword,if you like them they are bragging rights. If not it can leave a bitter taste.
Tuning can be done later on a chassis dyno a lot cheaper.

You can’t do with a chassis dyno what you can do with a crank dyno. In most cases anyway.
 
Maybe if you and I argue about how much power it could make we can get @Ant to actually dyno it.
:lol:
Why I oughta...

why-i-outta.gif




:lol:
 
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If you want to know exactly what it makes, dyno it. If you want to tune it to be the best it can for what it is, dyno it. If you want to find and fix any leaks or problems BEFORE you install it in the car, dyno it. If you want a reality check and disappointment in your engine building abilities, and the fact magazine articles lie, dyno it. If you want to learn, dyno it.
 
If you want to know exactly what it makes, dyno it. If you want to tune it to be the best it can for what it is, dyno it. If you want to find and fix any leaks or problems BEFORE you install it in the car, dyno it. If you want a reality check and disappointment in your engine building abilities, and the fact magazine articles lie, dyno it. If you want to learn, dyno it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^100% This. J.Rob
 
And I think I’ll have to disagree with some of the above comments, a 323 with 8.6:1 comp and a 216@050 cam with cleaned up heads is not a 1hp/cu in engine. I don’t think it’ll break 300, and honestly I think it’ll be down pretty far below that. But I’m a cynical bastard. Doesn’t mean it won’t run good though.
Totally agree with this ^^^. Not to be a dick but a 'teen with those heads/cam and very low compression will likely not crack 300hp. You are probably looking at 250-260hp and that may sound real dissapointing but I am sure it will run and drive awesome especially in a 4 door. Also that intake is not great at producing HP at all. I have a link with a 318 that I tested and it had a hard time breaking 300hp with aluminum small chamber heads that probably flow 70-80cfm more than your iron heads. I find 'teens are a very tricky animal to "nail" because they are so easy to over cam. Concerning your camshaft I like it alot--however I expect you to have noticeable valvetrain tick due to the very fast ramp rate-AMHIK-lol.

As for-Should you dyno it or not? My first thought is I need to raise my prices-$900USD!!! Thats almost $1300CDN! I charge half that much guess who the dummy is?

If the dyno shop is really going to dive in and work the distributor, and has o2 sensors to really work the carb and has the capabilites and KNOWLEDGE of steady state testing for cruise/part throttle tuning then dyno testing is a great idea. However if its a typical dyno session where the operator leaves everything up to the customer and just operates the dyno then I wouldn't bother. That being said seriously tuning an engine in car is a time consuming prospect. Make a change, start the car, go for a drive, find a spot where you can go WOT or get up to some speed that you want to test at. Try and assess if the change made worked or not. Drive back to base, undo or make another change, repeat. I know I've done it, I've only enjoyed it because I love learning--when I have had the time, when I'm short on time , I hate it. You can learn on a dyno in 5-6hrs what would take 2-3 months or longer maybe 2-3 years depending on you , of in car testing. You will never feel 2-3 degrees of what is best timing , but you will see it on the dyno. J.Rob

318 Before vs After dyno Test
 
What's 300hp get you in the 1/4 mile, somewhere in the high 12 - low 13 sec at 104-105 mph range? Does that seem possible with that combo? Not really to me.
 
What's 300hp get you in the 1/4 mile, somewhere in the high 12 - low 13 sec at 104-105 mph range? Does that seem possible with that combo? Not really to me.
Those calculators say a 275 hp 340 duster should do low 13's stock (12's if you believe a stock 340 makes more hp), funny how math (based off what ?) is considered more accurate than a purpose built measuring tool that cost idk $100k + ?

Here's 318willrun's 14.04/96 mph 318 4bbl, headers, small summit cam, pocket ported, 2800 rpm stall and 3.55.

OP has a better cam and maybe port job.

 
As for-Should you dyno it or not? My first thought is I need to raise my prices-$900USD!!! Thats almost $1300CDN! I charge half that much guess who the dummy is?
Lol.
The price I was quoted does include break-in and tuning. The chances of getting leaks should be slim, I did use quite a bit of sealer lol.

Find a performance tuning shop with a chassis dyno, best of both worlds
I've done that for another one of my vehicles, it was much cheaper and a good learning experience. l also found out air filters can rob around 5 hp shown on the chassis dyno.

Those calculators say a 275 hp 340 duster should do low 13's stock (12's if you believe a stock 340 makes more hp), funny how math (based off what ?) is considered more accurate than a purpose built measuring tool that cost idk $100k + ?

Here's 318willrun's 14.04/96 mph 318 4bbl, headers, small summit cam, pocket ported, 2800 rpm stall and 3.55.

OP has a better cam and maybe port job.


He did run a 13.978, that is impressive for the cheap setup, if my car can achieve 13's I'd be happy. Also looking at his old videos, 318WR port jobs are shinier than mine, but mine being rougher might be a good thing, plus I think I have removed more material to shape the ports and guide bosses a little better.
 

I was playing with one of the Wallace calculators: https://wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

According to the all-mighty calculator, at 3,500 lbs a 98 mph 1/4 mile would put you at 270 hp

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I say get it tuned up and make a few passes if you really want to know how much power it has. Plus, you'll have a ton of fun in the process.
 
The future upgrade funds might go to a new rear axle if my limit slip diff experiment fails with the 7.25 axle lol.
My cousin put a stock 318 in his 1968 Dart that was an original slant six car and broke the 7.25 rear on the first launch at the track with street tires. It was not a limited slip however.
 
My cousin put a stock 318 in his 1968 Dart that was an original slant six car and broke the 7.25 rear on the first launch at the track with street tires. It was not a limited slip however.
I have an idea for an experiment for that. If I can prevent wheel spin and severe shock load, then maybe there is a chance the rear end can survive.
 
Would have been nice to see some HP and TQ numbers, but I did build my own run-in stand to break in my 340 and make sure everything was OK before putting it in the chassis. Good thing I did! Machine shop fitted one piston too tight and engine seized when it came back to idle after cam break in. Tore back down, cam and lifters looked great. Took block back to machine shop. They were able to hone cylinder and save/refit piston. Second run-in went great. Ida been really pissed if I had dropped it in chassis, hooked everything up and had it happen.

340 run in 1.JPG


340 run in 2.jpg
 
Would have been nice to see some HP and TQ numbers, but I did build my own run-in stand to break in my 340 and make sure everything was OK before putting it in the chassis. Good thing I did! Machine shop fitted one piston too tight and engine seized when it came back to idle after cam break in. Tore back down, cam and lifters looked great. Took block back to machine shop. They were able to hone cylinder and save/refit piston. Second run-in went great. Ida been really pissed if I had dropped it in chassis, hooked everything up and had it happen.

View attachment 1716465446

View attachment 1716465447
That's what I need, an engine run stand. I think the local machine shop around here has one. I'll will have to ask the owner what the cost for time and labor would be.

Also, I think I might go for tuning on the chassis dyno, it's cheaper and dialing the engine right in the car might be the way to go.
 
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That's what I need, an engine run stand. I think the local machine shop around here has one. I'll will have to ask the owner what the cost for time and labor would be.

Also, I think I might go for tuning on the chassis dyno, it's cheaper and dialing the engine right in the car might be the way to go.
In one sense that's true. You'll be tuning with your fuel, fuel system, ignition system, etc, not the dyno stuff. If the CAR has problems, it will show up on a chassis dyno.
I just almost never believe the horsepower number a chassis dyno puts out.
I feel they are for comparison, not actual numbers. That goes especially for auto trans setups with huge converters.
I believe dragstrip mph numbers tell a much better true-er tale.
 
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That's what I need, an engine run stand. I think the local machine shop around here has one. I'll will have to ask the owner what the cost for time and labor would be.

Also, I think I might go for tuning on the chassis dyno, it's cheaper and dialing the engine right in the car might be the way to go.
Running the engine on a stand takes care of initial break-in and any concerns about issues - if the price is reasonable.
Utility of the chassis dyno depends heavily on the operator or you, and what you want to get out of it. For full power mid to top end an inertia dyno will show which changes add or subract more Hp for each change. If its got WBO2 tail sniffer you can also see if the AFR is drifting during the pull and things like that.

That said, the mph in the 1/4 will get you pretty close, usually for less money, but depending on how busy the track is, may take longer, and even repeated visits. Plus you get to run the 1/4 mile. :)

For cruising and throttle response you'll need an eddy-current dyno and an operator that knows how to work it for those things. That's a rarity. Expect to do the street tuning on your own.
 
Running the engine on a stand takes care of initial break-in and any concerns about issues - if the price is reasonable.
Utility of the chassis dyno depends heavily on the operator or you, and what you want to get out of it. For full power mid to top end an inertia dyno will show which changes add or subract more Hp for each change. If its got WBO2 tail sniffer you can also see if the AFR is drifting during the pull and things like that.

That said, the mph in the 1/4 will get you pretty close, usually for less money, but depending on how busy the track is, may take longer, and even repeated visits. Plus you get to run the 1/4 mile. :)

For cruising and throttle response you'll need an eddy-current dyno and an operator that knows how to work it for those things. That's a rarity. Expect to do the street tuning on your own.
In my book, repeated visits to a dragstrip is not a downside.
 
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