And get rid of the fuel filter before the pump...in case you do not understand hook up the stock pump without the cheap *** regulator.
Tuning a Proform/Holley carb, what parts and tools?
- Thread starter KnuckleDuster
- Start date
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KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Ok, so maybe we are back to the pump?
Or I need a larger N/S?
On the last note, I borrowed a Ryobi laser temp gun tonight. It was already dark and cooler, plus I took these temps immediately on shutdown after pulling in the garage with the engine off. I need to test again in the afternoon with the engine running after beating on it. Any way here is what I got... All temps are °F
Fuel pump - 159
Line in - 110
Line out at filter - 140
Fuel Standoff into bowls - 161/149 f/r
Regulator -119
Carb main body - 112
Carb bowls - 120/114 f/r
Intake - 147
Heads - 178
Headers - 262
Coil - 142
Valve covers - 153
MSD 6AL - 135
Inner fenders - 132/137
Was thinking coil might be overheating.
Car ran good until 3200 in third gear and fell flat on it's face.If I let up, it comes back. I tightened the screws on the fuel bowls per Proform instructions and I did not see so many bubbles after. Both windows look about the same at 3k in park.
Lowered floats with fuel a little under center and tried again with no improvement.
Pulled limiter pill from MSD with no change.
When I get time I am thinking of plugging factory ignition back up rule out the MSD. Just can't seem to nail it down to fuel or ignition.
Or I need a larger N/S?
On the last note, I borrowed a Ryobi laser temp gun tonight. It was already dark and cooler, plus I took these temps immediately on shutdown after pulling in the garage with the engine off. I need to test again in the afternoon with the engine running after beating on it. Any way here is what I got... All temps are °F
Fuel pump - 159
Line in - 110
Line out at filter - 140
Fuel Standoff into bowls - 161/149 f/r
Regulator -119
Carb main body - 112
Carb bowls - 120/114 f/r
Intake - 147
Heads - 178
Headers - 262
Coil - 142
Valve covers - 153
MSD 6AL - 135
Inner fenders - 132/137
Was thinking coil might be overheating.
Car ran good until 3200 in third gear and fell flat on it's face.If I let up, it comes back. I tightened the screws on the fuel bowls per Proform instructions and I did not see so many bubbles after. Both windows look about the same at 3k in park.
Lowered floats with fuel a little under center and tried again with no improvement.
Pulled limiter pill from MSD with no change.
When I get time I am thinking of plugging factory ignition back up rule out the MSD. Just can't seem to nail it down to fuel or ignition.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Oh, choke setting was way off.
Timing got knocked around somehow.
Pressure was jacked up waaay too high.
Started over but still back to the original issue I had at the track.
Thanks to Mattax, Yellow Rose, and everyone else trying to help, even that asshole TXDart...
;-)
( one of my best friends)
Timing got knocked around somehow.
Pressure was jacked up waaay too high.
Started over but still back to the original issue I had at the track.
Thanks to Mattax, Yellow Rose, and everyone else trying to help, even that asshole TXDart...
;-)
( one of my best friends)
Stop worrying about the track. Acceleration is complicated. Solve all the basic stuff first. Fuel pressure, Timing, choke.. Then work low throttle steady state.
You're also rushing your reading looking for answers. The big clue to that is your question about using a larger inlet valve. Take a deep breath and do a math example or draw a picture or whatever you need to do to understand the relation of pressure and force at the inlet valve. The first chapter in the Holley Carburetor book has very illustrations and explanations of how each system, including the inlet system, works. Use that as a go to reference. The more you grasp how the systems work, the better you'll get at rooting out what has to get done on any problem that comes up.
You're also rushing your reading looking for answers. The big clue to that is your question about using a larger inlet valve. Take a deep breath and do a math example or draw a picture or whatever you need to do to understand the relation of pressure and force at the inlet valve. The first chapter in the Holley Carburetor book has very illustrations and explanations of how each system, including the inlet system, works. Use that as a go to reference. The more you grasp how the systems work, the better you'll get at rooting out what has to get done on any problem that comes up.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I hear you, but yesterday I corrected the timing, fuel pressure, and float level.
The car is running great now, until third gear WOT.
It'll burn the tires halfway through second, then abot 3300 in third it just quits until I let off.
Extremely frustrating to be back to my original problem.
Unless you have a better suggestion on where to go from here, this is my plan for today-
Gonna try to rig a pressure guage I can see to check for lost pressure.
Martin suggested running my timing light into the cabin to see if I am losing spark.
The car is running great now, until third gear WOT.
It'll burn the tires halfway through second, then abot 3300 in third it just quits until I let off.
Extremely frustrating to be back to my original problem.
Unless you have a better suggestion on where to go from here, this is my plan for today-
Gonna try to rig a pressure guage I can see to check for lost pressure.
Martin suggested running my timing light into the cabin to see if I am losing spark.
Start from the bottom... idle, fuel pressure and make sure the settings are good to go. This is the foundation of your carb/tune up.
Then worry about the circuits further up the food chain.
I still think the IFR/IAB likely need changing/adjusting.
Then worry about the circuits further up the food chain.
I still think the IFR/IAB likely need changing/adjusting.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I don't think the OP ever said but what are the engine specs?
How did you end up with that carb? It would not have been the carb I picked unless it's dead stock.
How did you end up with that carb? It would not have been the carb I picked unless it's dead stock.
the holley 2210 you are using is not right for his combo.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
What?
What is a 2210?
If you mean a 3310, I junk them or sell them to people who can't tune.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
I used the formula of dispacement x max rpm. The other formula in the Holley book seems to point to a 750 as well. A buddy has a 650 on his 318 and is very happy with it, and at $330 it seemed like a good deal with all the features.
I also thought a Proform/Quickfuel 750cfm generally flowed higher and a 750 would be plenty. There is a link to another thread with engine specs on page one. After you read them, tell me
what carb you would have picked.
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mderoy340
Well-Known Member
I would say it's fuel delivery. You could have a volume problem. Fuel sock could be in bad shape, tank vent restricted, rubber hose bad allowing air to be drawn in. etc.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
I think you may be right.
I disassembled the pump and there was no trash in it. Diaphragms looked fine.
I work at 2am so I only had time for one test run.
I took TXDarts advice and hung my timing light on the wiper arm so I could watch the light to make sure I was getting spark when it broke up, was hooked to #1 wire and it kept flashing through the event.
Martin was saying it could be the regulator, but it happened before I put it in.
Filter was another guess but I removed the WIX before the pump for this test , only filter on it is a small Edelbrock screen type.
Tomorrow I will test witout a gas cap, and if that fails run a fuel pressure guage to the windshield.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Geeze just watched the video. I'm trying how to figure out how you have wet, black plugs and have a fuel system that has a delivery issue.
In that case the plugs would be white were that the case.
As for carb choice it wasn't size, it was that carb. I don't remember if you posted engine specs, but it wouldn't have been my pick for anything with much cam in it. That's what I meant.
In that case the plugs would be white were that the case.
As for carb choice it wasn't size, it was that carb. I don't remember if you posted engine specs, but it wouldn't have been my pick for anything with much cam in it. That's what I meant.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
They may not be now, after adjusting the flats, regulator, and choke.
I will test again and pull a couple on the road.
Long week at work and at home so not getting a lot of time to spend on it.
Thanks for staying tuned.
I will test again and pull a couple on the road.
Long week at work and at home so not getting a lot of time to spend on it.
Thanks for staying tuned.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If you think you have the fuel control issue solved, buy a new set of plugs and start with those so it makes seeing what's going on easier.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Just got home from work and pulled the #1 plug. Haven't driven it since yesterday.
Gonna go make a run without the gas cap to see if maybe the tank is not venting enough.
I should have a new set of FR5's waitng at the parts store. The one pictured is an FR4, what do you think YR, should I go down one heat range or wait and buy FR4's again. (have to order)
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KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Ran it without the cap, same old story...
Guess I can rule out the vent.
Killed it as soon as it broke up, put it in neutral and pulled two plugs. Here's pics of #1 and #2 respectively. Didn't pull any others since people in Texas tend to pull over to help out, and I didn't want a cop rolling up since this is my favorite test spot. Had to tell one guy in a Miata who pulled over, thanks but I was good, in the space of about 5 mins.
Guess I can rule out the vent.
Killed it as soon as it broke up, put it in neutral and pulled two plugs. Here's pics of #1 and #2 respectively. Didn't pull any others since people in Texas tend to pull over to help out, and I didn't want a cop rolling up since this is my favorite test spot. Had to tell one guy in a Miata who pulled over, thanks but I was good, in the space of about 5 mins.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
It's fat, but not fat like it has fuel running out the vent.
It used to be when the plug looked green it was too much timing but the ground strap doesn't look like it. Could be an additive in the fuel.
Did this just start with a new carb? If not, look at the distributor cap for cracks and check for rotor phasing.
It used to be when the plug looked green it was too much timing but the ground strap doesn't look like it. Could be an additive in the fuel.
Did this just start with a new carb? If not, look at the distributor cap for cracks and check for rotor phasing.
Get your new plugs in it?
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Roll pin was in the wrong damn slot in the reluctor!
Live and learn, I guess...trying not to beat myself up about it, but feeling pretty stupid.
I checked it a while back in the car but couldn't see it well and thought it looked right.
YR, thanks you got me thinking about it again and I found this post and the pic Trailbeast posted , I pulled the distributor and realised my screwup from sometime last year.
Reluctor and Phasing....
Many many THANKS to everbody!!!!
This has been driving me crazy since my first trip to a track last summer.
TXDart has been putting up with me since that night, in person, on the phone, and online, THANKS Martin!
Mattax, you got me into some good info, now I want to learn everything I can about carbs, lol...my sincere appreciation for a the help!
Hopefully I can get the O2 bungs in this week and finally start tuning.
Gonna go back into timing tomorrow and see if 19/33 is optimum or if it might take 35+
Live and learn, I guess...trying not to beat myself up about it, but feeling pretty stupid.
I checked it a while back in the car but couldn't see it well and thought it looked right.
YR, thanks you got me thinking about it again and I found this post and the pic Trailbeast posted , I pulled the distributor and realised my screwup from sometime last year.
Reluctor and Phasing....
Many many THANKS to everbody!!!!
This has been driving me crazy since my first trip to a track last summer.
TXDart has been putting up with me since that night, in person, on the phone, and online, THANKS Martin!
Mattax, you got me into some good info, now I want to learn everything I can about carbs, lol...my sincere appreciation for a the help!
Hopefully I can get the O2 bungs in this week and finally start tuning.
Gonna go back into timing tomorrow and see if 19/33 is optimum or if it might take 35+
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Glad you got the damn thing sorted out.
Sometimes we get lost in the weeds when the answer is right there.
I spend most of my time trying to get out of the weeds.
Sometimes we get lost in the weeds when the answer is right there.
I spend most of my time trying to get out of the weeds.
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Martin told me I got lost. I did!
So many theories and so much info to study. I was so obsessed with that one issue, I didn't get half of it at first, until I found the problem and went back over the thread.
Hopefully this helps somebody else.
Start from scratch with the basics, and don't get distracted.
I just drove myself nuts going back and forth between fuel issue and ignition issue.
I am learning a lot, though!
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Update!
Looks like the issue is still there, did it again in the same spot as last night just now. Ran great last night...
WTF???
Looks like the issue is still there, did it again in the same spot as last night just now. Ran great last night...
WTF???
cookietruck
Well-Known Member
is there still fuel coming out of the bowl vents?
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
No, choke and idle issues have been resolved.
I'm down to either too much play up and down on the distributor shaft, coil going out, or fuel pump going out.
Weather here is no good for test runs, gonna try and get some tomorrow.
Anybody care to explain how to properly test the coil with a multimeter?
Where do I get the bushings for eliminating up/down play on distrbutor shaft? Doesn't Richard Ehrenburg sell some?
As for the fuel pump, probably just run a guage up to the windshield and have a buddy watch it, if I can figure out a good way to route the hose. How have you guys done it?
I'm down to either too much play up and down on the distributor shaft, coil going out, or fuel pump going out.
Weather here is no good for test runs, gonna try and get some tomorrow.
Anybody care to explain how to properly test the coil with a multimeter?
Where do I get the bushings for eliminating up/down play on distrbutor shaft? Doesn't Richard Ehrenburg sell some?
As for the fuel pump, probably just run a guage up to the windshield and have a buddy watch it, if I can figure out a good way to route the hose. How have you guys done it?
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