vin question

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jw97neon

jw97neon

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so i just got my car and i am trying to decode the vin. problem is it has a replacement vin tag in the door now. i thought there was one on the inner fender but it is missing. where else did dodge stamp the vin? it is a 1965 dodge dart gt. thanks
 
Replacement vin tag? I hope it is a State issued replacement tag.Might check the core support for numbers.
 
If you have a state issued replacement vin, you are most likely out of luck. Clarify with the DMV that the car is legitimately titled, the vin is valid, and you are the legal owner.

If all that checks out, go for it and build the car any way you want. Any "collector" value was lost with the replacement vin so originality doesn't matter.
 
are you sure its a replacement ,as this is where the factory put them on early cars as jim says,the one under the hood is the fender tag with the cars details ,engine ,interior and such like
 
Two Body stampings pre1968 may (should) be found on the radiator core and under the trunk weatherstripping per the last two paragraphs of:

http://maxwedge.com/articles/documenting.php

Apparently tHere have been several matching VIN / fender tag combos show up on ebay ( no cars attached). You could try to turn a /6 Challenger into a former Hemi or six pak (high dollar) 1 of 6 car or whatever car...
 
Clroads said:
Two Body stampings pre1968 may (should) be found on the radiator core and under the trunk weatherstripping per the last two paragraphs of:

http://maxwedge.com/articles/documenting.php

Apparently tHere have been several matching VIN / fender tag combos show up on ebay ( no cars attached). You could try to turn a /6 Challenger into a former Hemi or six pak (high dollar) 1 of 6 car or whatever car...
Click to expand...

If you have no fender tag (certicard) or maybe the build sheet, I'm not sure, this does you no good at all
 
Russ correct no VIN on 68 or earlier in the hidden codes. They used the year, factory, SPD and SO Number on the stamping. There are only two ways to tie it together to the car.
Broadcast sheet, or for 67 and earlier you can get the build card from Chrysler Historical and it will have both numbers on it. For 68 you can be screwed without the broadcast sheet since you cannot get the build card for them..


Russ H said:
Jim,

Are you saying that all early vehicles including 68's will not have VIN number stampings other than on the dash and fender tag?
Click to expand...
 
here is the picture of the vin tag. i have a issued title out of California. purchased the car in utah. found car was never registered in utah. last known registration was in 1990.
 
..........OH!!!........... For some reason I had the idea someone had REPLACED the VIN IE illegally. You have a title that matches that VIN?

That should be a legit VIN, maybe the car was seriously wrecked and CA issued a new VIN. That sucks, though, for collectors, as it sure ain't original.

Maybe CA? would have records of the original VIN, ???
 
67Dart273 said:
..........OH!!!........... For some reason I had the idea someone had REPLACED the VIN IE illegally. You have a title that matches that VIN?

That should be a legit VIN, maybe the car was seriously wrecked and CA issued a new VIN. That sucks, though, for collectors, as it sure ain't original.

Maybe CA? would have records of the original VIN, ???
Click to expand...
car show no signs of being wrecked. but who knows. i was speaking with my father about this and he stated the car my have been stolen once. makes sense because i purchased a car here in utah and was found to have been stolen, recovered, and resold though state auction. requiring a new state issued vin number for the vehicle.
 
http://maxwedge.com/articles/v66-75.php
It comes up as 65 Dart GT LA factory 70528 car built. I think the sequence # (factory total) here is not the same as the fender tag (gate sequence #). Mine is not. The sequence from the plant starts with 1 (six digit)

With the vin and proof of ownership you can request a build card from the historical society with decode. 45.00 or if you find the broadcast sheet your set for a decode

To trace a previous owner you have to write to each motor vehicle department and provide proof of ownership and a self addressed stamped envelop, find a previous owner/ state, new request/ self addressed envelop...just like a deed search..there is a web site with addresses. This is more for car history.

Your number looks okay (basically) for a 65 Dart GT V8 plus plant sequence # 170528 (LA)
 
If the state assigned VIN is in fact from the body stamping's from the core support or left rear quarter panel lip. It will not be the same as the original VIN assigned. The hidden stamps used the S.O. number until 69 and not the last 6 of the VIN.

There is no way of knowing the factory assigned VIN for Chrysler Historical to get the build card, unless like you said he can find the broadcast sheet under the rear seat or something. The VIN given by Cali probably has no significance but to them.

What are the hidden body codes? Perhaps there is some correlation between them and the California VIN number assigned? BUT even still, with them, there is no way to determine the factory VIN to obtain a build card from.
 
For my car I turned in the Out of State title to get my New title. Should have made a copy for records first. (Might save a SASE some day)

The GT per the VIN is a V8. Standard is the 180 HP 2-bbl; optional 235 HP 4-bbl.

Mine came with the Charger engine package and power Pak exhaust. When distinguishing between the Dart Charger and the factory option 4-bbl for the GT there may have been a different color resonator used. A similar discussion can be made Formula S vs. factory optioned Barracuda or Val. 4-bbl with Power Pak (1965). Parts manual may not be too clear for exhaust. I discussed exhaust briefly with Gib. Distinct factory sound(load); he used to taunt cops.

The door jam looks like it was metallic blue (not light yellow) when the replacement VIN applied?

You may have a valance cut out verifying 235 w/ power pak. For 1965 except for dart chargers the fenders were typically bare of emblems (no 273 4 Barrel) badges - (not absolute as with muffler/resonator info). I don't know if the 235 HP ever came with the turn down exhaust (no resonator)/ (no cut out) as a basic. My dad switched the 65 880 383 to the turn down with no problem. Don't remember the sound.

If you have (do find) a/ the build sheet(s) should have the VIN on it. Build sheets were typically printed at each station but not required to be placed or attached to car. They would build 1,000 plus cars a day, so build sheets are not absolute VIN verification (don't be bummed if they don't match/aren't there- mixed up/ thrown away etc.)

Not to drag this out but saw VIN Dart GT.. VIN #L4551618xx. LA built March 1965, (moparmuslecar). Your car possibly came 800-900 cars after that...?
 
It is possible Cali added to the last 1965 production car for the LA plant and created the number. If the plant built 60 cars per hour (57 actual) two shifts, five days a week (4800 cars a week) and car 62,000 passed by in March 1965, it is possible they surpassed car 70528 for the year.

I don't want to talk to much about stampings but here are two references below.

I would certainly try the Historical Society. The build card should be there and a simple phone call/e-mail should help establish this. If they have no info on the VIN photographed below, they should be able to tell you.

Is a title being refused? California is verifying the VIN?

Are we just trying to verify factory a/c, 4-speed option, power brakes or some other option?

There would be no absolutes. There were always "mistakes" made on the assembly line vs. fender code/broadcast sheet (co-workers/family members car). At the Newark plant they had their own quality control, and would follow / know exactly where co-worker etc cars were on the assembly line and make sure it was built right. End of the year cars may have been over-built to use up inventories.

See the burnt metallic orange super bird example in the article below, was someone just being funny/friends car etc. ?

Factory Dart Chargers were built through early March 1965 (Ulf) and were pale yellow. Ulf's build thread highlights each and every part of the car with a build date code. Spring parts should be dated different than late summer parts by date code. If all the date codes are late spring that should help validate ~April May 1965 build date.

The replacement VIN is pretty cool.

Don't know the total of cars produced +/- for LA in 1965 but found this
http://www.mmcdetroit.com/Broadcast Sheet Inspections/ :
The car broadcast (track or build) sheet is typically found in various locations of a vehicle like behind the driver’s seat (bucket seat cars), taped to the back of the glove box, under the carpet, under the back seat etc... The employees of the production facilities typically referred to the Broadcast sheet as a "Track" Sheet. It was call that because it was used to track the components to be installed on a vehicle. However, track sheets were typically not placed in vehicles produced at Los Angeles (LA) assembly plant. The LA plant may have had a "trash" policy that stated no paperwork was to be left in the vehicle during assembly. ( the plant closed in 1971)

Stampings:
http://www.deadnutson.com/building_a_mopar.html
Before exiting the metal shop fabrication area, every body receives its very own premade fender tag. It is attached to the left inner fender by its forward screw only, then pulled up at its rear. This allows inspector's punches to be impressed on it later, and allows the primers and color coats to be applied under it. (This is not a universal practice on every car or at all plants; sometimes the tag is hung inside the car by a paper clip).

Another vital task of the Metal Shop is embossing "secret" portions of the VIN on at least two pieces of welded-on sheet metal of the car. This is accomplished with an air or hydraulic embossing tool containing numbers and letters, manually located and actuated by its operator.


Body Stampings:
http://maxwedge.com/articles/documenting.php
One way to detect a 'fake' car, or a car that been fraudulently put together to be sold as something it's not, is to verify the body stampings. On 1968 and earlier cars, the VON was stamped on the body in at least two places. Usually, this was stamped on the radiator core support and under the weatherstripping along the driver's side trunk extension. You will want to verify that the VON matches the VON on the fender tag.
 
At one point there was a issue with the vin tag so it now has a CA State vin tag.You should have no issues registering the car but the original issue vin is no longer valid.
 
Then the car had the optional 402 4-spd dual exhaust with factory installed headers and altered wheelbase. Might have been the Hemi dart option. 65 looks good on two wheels! Enjoy
 
On May 27, 1965 Coronet 500 rolled off the line. The car was 77,758 for the year. So our V8 GT was built approximately Friday, May 7, 1965 and had a single overhead interior light.
 
Clroads said:
For my car I turned in the Out of State title to get my New title. Should have made a copy for records first. (Might save a SASE some day)

The GT per the VIN is a V8. Standard is the 180 HP 2-bbl; optional 235 HP 4-bbl.

Mine came with the Charger engine package and power Pak exhaust. When distinguishing between the Dart Charger and the factory option 4-bbl for the GT there may have been a different color resonator used. A similar discussion can be made Formula S vs. factory optioned Barracuda or Val. 4-bbl with Power Pak (1965). Parts manual may not be too clear for exhaust. I discussed exhaust briefly with Gib. Distinct factory sound(load); he used to taunt cops.

The door jam looks like it was metallic blue (not light yellow) when the replacement VIN applied?

You may have a valance cut out verifying 235 w/ power pak. For 1965 except for dart chargers the fenders were typically bare of emblems (no 273 4 Barrel) badges - (not absolute as with muffler/resonator info). I don't know if the 235 HP ever came with the turn down exhaust (no resonator)/ (no cut out) as a basic. My dad switched the 65 880 383 to the turn down with no problem. Don't remember the sound.

If you have (do find) a/ the build sheet(s) should have the VIN on it. Build sheets were typically printed at each station but not required to be placed or attached to car. They would build 1,000 plus cars a day, so build sheets are not absolute VIN verification (don't be bummed if they don't match/aren't there- mixed up/ thrown away etc.)

Not to drag this out but saw VIN Dart GT.. VIN #L4551618xx. LA built March 1965, (moparmuslecar). Your car possibly came 800-900 cars after that...?
Click to expand...

wow this is pretty interesting. what make you think the car was a pal yellow color? i really only ask because i am noticing that this car has been painted once in the past.
 
I did not, but the blue looked the old 70 Challenger color. If it had been pale yellow originally, we could have filled in a piece of your build sheet/ tag, otherwise std. factory paint codes (available throughout the year for color) applied to sheet /tag. Pale yellow would be factory Dart Charger (V8 w/ 4 bbl) (limited special order) (through ~mid-March) or Go/Go addition (/6 or V8) (~mid March- June, - with racing stripe).

Your sheet/ tag would have had interior /exterior/ trim /vinyl top color (if present). GT would have had the already had buckets, floor console (6 or 8), most likely remote mirror. (auto or 4-spd). 2 or 4 bbl V8 (31 or 32). You should be able to list those.

I am just guessing about the build date, but looks like they were only running one shift at max or about 30-40 cars an hour for two shifts, not 57 car per hour for two shifts.

VIN
The VIN includes your car vs the rest of the LA plant's total production (all models - year to date)..The Coronet told us the factory total at the end of May, and we had a Dart VIN from sometime in March,(just March -no specific date). After they built the Coronet in late May they probably continued to build ~2000 cars a week for two or three more weeks (possibly) in 1965 before shutdown / changeover.

So the last VIN # from the LA plant from 1965 would have/ could have been something like XXXX184001 (you can insert the actual production figure - I don't know it). Had Cali added on to that to create a new VIN for your car it would have been L455184002, not L455170528. (Just my thought/ guess-
your original VIN on a replacement Cali tag?)

Thieves probably ground the original tag down and the original owner got the car back, showed the title, and Cali re-issued and put the old VIN # back on with the replacement tag. Or maybe the tag was simply damaged/ or they removed the original tag for the repaint/ total restoration and DMV didnot like the way they re-attached the tag. Check out the circular marks on the replacement VIN Tag from the Hi-Loc (?) riveter. That thing is not falling off.
 
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