Vintage Air System not too cool????!!!!

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Revhendo said:
No, they don't have to be overcharged by all that much. It's been a while, but I thought it was around a half pound. It's just a funky little vibration or a hum/groan type of deal. You don't notice it if you're not paying attention to it, but once you hear/feel it, you feel it every time.
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Wow, interesting !

5.7 hemi said:
1.8lbs, or 28.8oz. It's not 1 lb 8oz, that threw me off too.
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Oops ! I was trying to remember without going back to the beginning !
 
lpThe VA kit has an expansion valve on the unit itself. The lines do/are as described, hot for the #6 and #8 and cold for the #10 and the expansion valve gets cold, condensation on the #10 fittings. The compressor cam with assy. lube so I had to drain all I could into a cup, marked the level, and refilled with pag oil to said mark, and put that amount back in the compressor. The compressor was not bought from VA cause they wanted way too much $$, so I got it elsewhere,(sanden 508). Now it's possible that it could need some more oil...that hasn't crossed my mind.
 
Most of the aftermarket kits use expansion valves. (In fact, most aftermarket kits look very similar).

With Vintage systems, you do not add oil. The compressor is already loaded.
 
Rev, your right on the expansion valves and the compressors with oil, but I sourced mine elsewhere and it only had assy. oil so thats why I had to drain it.
 
5.7 hemi said:
Rev, your right on the expansion valves and the compressors with oil, but I sourced mine elsewhere and it only had assy. oil so thats why I had to drain it.
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I'm gonna guess that you had oil put in it then, otherwise you'ld be posting a thread about a compressor making some odd noise or not turning at all.
 
Revhendo said:
I'm gonna guess that you had oil put in it then, otherwise you'ld be posting a thread about a compressor making some odd noise or not turning at all.
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Exactly ! ... why didn't you use an OEM compressor ? The one that came on your motor ?
 
The adapter blocks could and would not seal. I must have bought 6 different pairs, made at least 4 of my own and still they would leak under vacuum. So why fight a losing battle, continue to shell out money, time making my own, it was fruitless, so I got the sanden and moved on. No complaints about the sanden, it bolted up to my brackets I made and I didn't have to use adapter blocks.
 
I didn't realize you were using a different compressor. It MIGHT be possible it is outside the box for this system. A TXV is the only control device (as opposed to orifice/ cap tube) that is somewhat forgiving, but if a compressor is wayyyy too large or too small, the system will never be right.

These are designed to be "in balance." A large compressor will build high head and low suction too quickly, and if protected with controls, will short cycle. A small compressor will mostly just not cool well, if the TXV is sized such as to control the situation.

I'm a BIG believer in checking by superheat at the compressor. This insures that A you have enough cooling "coming back" to the compressor, and B that you are not in danger of slugging the thing with liquid.

Vehicles are especially troubling because of the vast operating variables -- not only the condenser conditions -- lack of airflow/ fan at low speeds, but the "box" (interior) suffers from vast extremes.
 
Its the same compressor as what VA offers in their kit, I was just not gonna pay 250ish bucks for a compressor that can be had for 150ish. So the compressor size/match is a non issue.
 
5.7 hemi said:
Its the same compressor as what VA offers in their kit, I was just not gonna pay 250ish bucks for a compressor that can be had for 150ish. So the compressor size/match is a non issue.
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x2. It's the compressor that VA sells with their kits and works very well with their systems.
 
Rev, it just might be that there is not enough oil. So we will find out on wed. next week.
 
I will be interested to hear what the solution is.
 
I have an appt. today for the a/c in the afternoon, so it should be about 100 degrees or better today, and hopefully we can get this figured out.
 
Well I had 2lbs of r134a in the system and should have had 1lb 12oz. They reclaimed what was in the system, vacuumed it down, and recharged with the proper amount. It was hot (ambient temp over 100) and we got 54 degrees out of the vent. They checked to make sure there was nothing obstructing the hoses and checked the expansion valve, all was good, pressure was 20-30 on the low side, 200-250 on the high side, fans kicked on when it hit close to 250, off when it hit 200ish and the compressor did not cycle, just kept going. Nothing out of the condensation drain tube, I mean jack squat. So I guess this is as good as it's gonna get, and I was comfortable on the drive home. Maybe when the ambient temp is lower the a/c might blow colder, or the blend door is not closing 100%, either way, I'm done screwing around with it and will drive the piss out of it.
 
As a suggestion, try running the fans continuous, see if that lowers the vent temp from the way it is set up now. I test weather enough air is moving over the condenser by placing a high volume fan in front of the cond. or misting water over the cond. while I watch the gauges and monitor duct output temp.
 
I dont know how to make them run continusly. How do I do that with a trinary switch? Any help would be appreciated.
 
5.7 hemi said:
I dont know how to make them run continusly. How do I do that with a trinary switch? Any help would be appreciated.
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Well I'm sure the thermal switch that is tell the fans to kick on @ 200 is more than likely sending a ground signal to a circuit breaker. You just need to locate the circuit breaker and determine if it is recieving a ground to latch and then just add an external ground to that terminal and they will run until you remove the ground.
 
You could just temporarily jumper the two wires on the trinary for the fan together......
(should be two blue wires and two green. I don't use trinaries a lot, so I don't remember which pair control the fan).
 
Every FSM I have read (from memory) has a performance testing chart in the heating and a/c section. They usually call for windows closed, Max a/c (resirc air), High (INSIDE) fan, and engine idle turned up to 1000-1100 rpm. If the system is equipped with an electric fan it should be on all the time when the ac is on. The chart will match ambient temp With a normal range of high and low side pressures and duct outlet temp.

It sounds like you have a 45 degree drop from ambient to duct temp. with the condenser fan cycling, and the engine idling. That my friend is kicking but, big time.

What are your duct temps going down the road???


Like stated above, set up your fan to run continuously with ac on.

Check back with us.
 
RedFish said:
Lowering the temperature of the refridgerant while in liquid form is the science of a/c.
The fan should run contiuously when the a/c is on. That way the fan doesn't need a temp sensor on the refridgerant it simply ignores coolant temperature when neccessary.
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I have seen this before with some systems.I found that there is a 134 a freon booster you can get it at most auto parts store.Also there is another freon called ICOR HOT SHOT it can replace 134a with a 14 % increase in cooling.If you go this route call a company in your area that does home a/c ask them if they are familiar with the product as it takes less Hot Shot to do the same job.

Hope this helps And yes the fan should be on when the a/c is on.
 
[ame]http://www.icorinternational.com/images/HS2GL.pdf[/ame]

This is a link that explains how to convert to hot shot.
 
Refrigerant blends like R-414b (Hotshot) perform well, but create a whole list of problems you may not want to deal with.

His system was sized and designed for R-134a I strongly recommend continuing to use R-134a

R-414B Performs well. While i haven't used used it. I have successfully used 409A and 409b retrofitting industrial chillers. The 409 refrigerants are a blend of R-22/124/142b. R-414b is a blend of R-22/600a/124/142b.

Here are some of the issues:

Charging can be a little more time consuming to get it right.

All of the blended refrigerants have different boiling points. Liquid charge only. If you have small leak you can not partially recharge the system. The balance between the refrigerants will be off. Same goes if you end up slightly over charged. Reclaim the system and start over with virgin refrigerant.

Where can you legally have it reclaimed? You can't knowingly mix refrigerants when reclaiming. The guy at the the corner garage is not going to have a reclaim unit and tank dedicated to 414b. If you don't tell him, he will unknowingly mess up a bunch of his customers cars that come after you. I saw this happen in Florida in the 90"s when unscrupulous guys were playing around with propane, in r-12 systems (I **** you not)


O-ring comparability. Are the compressor and system O-rings compatible??? with 414. You can't tell by looking. I would do some careful checking with the vendors that supplied the manufacturer of the system. You still may end up rebuilding the compressor and replace the system o-rings to be sure.

With all of the charging and compatibility issues, whenever we get involved with retrofits we clean and rebuild as much of the system as possible with compatible o-rings etc. Triple evacuate with nitrogen and a two stage vacuum pump. Vacuum test for several hours with a micron gauge. If you have ever used one you will realize how completely inaccurate and useless the gauges on your compound manifold are for measuring vacuum. Then perform a long nitrogen pressure test, 24 hours if possible, before you evacuate and charge.

I was never a fan of 134 at the beginning, but things have evolved in the last 20years. If you have a system designed for it, staying with it is the way to go.
 
Wait!! Is it humid out and nothing is coming out of your evaporator drain???

If so your box may be filling with water, and that will sure hurt performance.

If not i'm with Revhendo Blend door not closed completely. Is there a heater flow control valve open??
 
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