Vintage Air System not too cool????!!!!

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Arco440 said:
http://www.icorinternational.com/images/HS2GL.pdf

This is a link that explains how to convert to hot shot.
Click to expand...

In this link you posted it specificlly states it is not to be used for mobile applications. Further research shows that this blended refrigerant contains butane which explains why it is not recommended for mobile applications. In the event an accident occurs, spraying butane on a fire is never a good thing...:eek:ops:
 
I'm always amazed at how quickly people object to 2 lbs of a flammable gas in a sealed circuit but somehow forget that they are usually driving around with 20 gallons of highly flammable liquid in their gas tank. I've heard that you can actually use propane as a refrigerant with surprisingly good results.
 
I have a buddy coming over this weekend to help to get the fans to run continusly while the ac is. This morning, the fans cycled on/off and so did the compressor, vent temps were 60, ambient was 80ish in my garage with a box fan blowing on the condensor. I held the idle at 1500 for a minutes and vent temps got to about 58-59, and barely any condensation out od the drain tube. Humidity is in the teens, so not a big deal there. Im at a crossroad here, do I continue trying to get the vent temps down and continue being frustrated and not wanting to drive it or should I search under every stone to get the damn thing right? The fact that condensation forms on the big hose (fitting) and none (damn little) from the drain tube is confusing.
 
What is the humidity, / where are you?

You might simply not be below the dew point.

Jumpering the fans is certainly something I missed. Should be easy to figure out. Look for fan relays, and with a test lamp/ meter, figure out how they are wired

Either the thermo switch is in the GROUND leg, or it's in series with the HOT leg

If the relays are triggered with the fan switch in the hot leg, it's easy. Just run a wire from your clutch connection to the trigger wire on your fan relays. If the fans use individual thermo switches, you need two diodes in the line from the clutch to the two fan relays.

If the fans are switched in the ground leg, you'll need one more relay operated by the fan clutch line.

If you can give use more info about your fans, the thermo switch(s) and relay(s) it would help.
 
Dude if you were getting 54degrees out of vents on a 100degree day that is plenty good ! 60 on a 80 day not so good ! Pressures do look good though. But didn't you state they called for 6-12 on the low side ? How fast is the compressor cycling ?
 
jw133489 said:
In this link you posted it specificlly states it is not to be used for mobile applications. Further research shows that this blended refrigerant contains butane which explains why it is not recommended for mobile applications. In the event an accident occurs, spraying butane on a fire is never a good thing...:eek:ops:
Click to expand...
Nice catch, The link in the previous post above is for (Hot shot 2) not hot shot (R-414b)

Hot Shot (R-414b) is an acceptable replacement for R-12 in automotive applications.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/macssubs.html

See Note #3 Although some blends contain flammable components, all blends that are Acceptable Subject to Use Conditions are nonflammable as blended.

1.5% R-600a (Isobutane)
 
rednesss said:
I'm always amazed at how quickly people object to 2 lbs of a flammable gas in a sealed circuit but somehow forget that they are usually driving around with 20 gallons of highly flammable liquid in their gas tank. I've heard that you can actually use propane as a refrigerant with surprisingly good results.
Click to expand...

Propane (LP) is much different than Butane and operates and MUCH higher pressures. Even such things as CO2 are used in some special low - low temp applications.

But I agree with you about flammability. And before the Freon based stuff came out, we used a lot WORSE

Ammonia, sulfur dioxide, and methyl chloride were all highly toxic and had their own operational problems. Not what ya want'a be trapped with in case of a wreck!!!

But freon refrigeration systems are NOT "non flammable" That escaping high pressure refrigerant contains OIL and it burns just fine!!!
 
There have always been hazards associated with freon. Though R-12 is non flammable, when exposed to open flame such as in a car fire. If such a car catches fire, it is important not to inhale the fumes because the R-12 will turn into phosgene (nerve gas), a lethal chemical.
 
Ahem. Jump the blue wires together on your trinary switch.
 
Since last night, I've emersed myself with reading as much as I can find on ac. I dont know why VA wants 6-12 on the low side, everything I read says 20-30 is good and 200-250 on the high side is good. I haven't timed the fans nor the compressor and I was on the phone with VA and they said it should have around 45 degree's at the vent and are stumped of at 60 degree reading. My condensor is 24x17, so they said that's fine, condensation on the big is right, but the high side pressure could be lower and that airflow across the condensor is not enough at idle. What does this mean, do I need to put a pusher on the condensor? I'm lost like a fart in a whirlwind.
 
Rev, will that make the fans come on and stay on with the ac running?
 
Your pressures are good for inside a shop. 30 psi low and 250 high are good summer indoor pressure. 107 degree ambient temp? That will push them very high. Then cooling becomes an issue. Make sure your radiator and condensor are not full of debris and dirt. You need to clean between them, not just hose it from one fin to another. R134a is not as good at cooling as R12, but I have seen cars put out below freezing if the compressor was made for R134a. If it is a converted R12 compressor, they do not work as well. I would expect on a very hot day to see a 45 to 50 degree change from the ambient air temperature if the system is running well. High side pressure will spike in hot weather causing loss of heat transfer and if you add a clogged radiator or condensor, it can spike catastrophically high. We live in a cottonwood area and we do more evac/recharge and condensor cleans than anything else.
 
Everything, I mean down to button head screws to hold the condensor, are new.
 
5.7 hemi said:
Rev, will that make the fans come on and stay on with the ac running?
Click to expand...

Yep. Also make sure your evap drain is at a down angle and not straight to the firewall. Does the compressor cycle at all? It should cycle occasionally.
I know you have your heater by-passed, so I'm still on the mixing being off.
I'll find the programming instructions tomorrow. Perhaps that might help.
 
Rev, thanks so much. The compressor cycles every so often. VA hasn't said anything about reprogramming...huh!
 
5.7 hemi said:
Rev, thanks so much. The compressor cycles every so often. VA hasn't said anything about reprogramming...huh!
Click to expand...

Gen IVs are controlled by a microprossesor. They need a base calibration of the controls. Look next to the twin relay packs. There should be a grey wire with a red connector on it. If it's there, it's programmable.
 
Yeah it's there, now what?
 
OK. Here we go. The grey wire gets grounded for the calibration proceedure. I usually just attach a spare wire to it and touch the bare wire of the other end to a ground when you're calibrating.

1. Turn the ignition on.
2. Move the controls to the "High" position.
3. Connect the ground wire to ground. Wait for 5 seconds or so and the blower speed should change.
4. Move the controls to the "Low" positions.
5. Disconnect the ground. The blower speed should change again to let you know it learned something.

Loose your jumper ground wire so it doesn't accidently mess you up.

Hope I explained that well. If you still have my number, give me a call if you need to.
 
Rev, thanks for the instructions. My buddy stopped by today and after looking at all my options, I decided to get a programmable temp/relay controller for the fans instead of using what spal had provided. We will reprogram the VA ecu when the programmer get here. It will turn 1 fan onwhen the compressor comes on and the other at a temp of my choice. So this will help, the alt wont be hit with both fans coming on at the same time (I can watch my volt gauge drop to 12ish then come back to 14ish when the fan kick on). Thanks again Rev, you always help when I need it.
 
No worries at all. Let us/me know how all this works out for you. You started a good thread with great info that can help the next person down the road.
One of these days I'll catch up to you at one of the flings.
 
No, but I'm taking a trip to Atascadero tomorrow afternoon and we'll see how cool I am.
 
Brotherman, you are always cool, we'll just see if you'll be sweating.....
 
Well I left yesterday afternoon, about 103 outside and I had the ac rolling, sweating bullets cause this was the maiden long distance voyage, anyway, the temp out of the ducts was 58 and then rise to 60 and repeat for the hole trip. I was doing granny speed of 55-60 (again pucker factor of the maiden long distance voyage) water temp around 200 with a 180 t-stat. I was comfortable, but black interior, dark car, and the factory style vinyl seat covers made my back sweaty, no biggie there. So I guess it did well and I shouldn't complain.
 
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