Voltage regulator upgrade? Keep frying voltage regulators with swap

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You said this:


Uhcoog1 said:
FYI - unplugging the voltage regulator didn't help. I had to cut the 12v to the alternator for it to quit charging.
Click to expand...


This MEANS one of two things:

1....either this alternator DOES HAVE an internal regulator

2...or there is some sort of field short or wiring problem that is causing the regulator to be essentially ineffective

This also means.........

1...that if internally regulator, whatever regulators you are buying are not needed and incorrect

2...that in any case the external regulator is NOT the root cause of this problem, even though it may be failing. The "actual" problem is the cause of the regulator failing.
 
From the 2006 LX Service Manual:

"The amount of DC current produced by the generator is controlled by the EVR (field control) circuitry contained within the PCM. This circuit is connected in series with the second rotor field terminal and ground."


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AlternatorChargingbasicsinLXServiceManual3_zps4eacb059.jpg


AlternatorChargingbasicsinLXServiceManual4_zps0fb6ecb1.jpg


AlternatorChargingbasicsinLXServiceManual5_zpsa4951b20.jpg
 
moparlover said:
i found two pictures

not sure how much they will help

pic3.gif


View attachment 1714691838

it seems like you are pretty much wired this way already...
Click to expand...

Correct.

The car has 2200 miles on it. It's been through 3-4 voltage regulators. No failures under light load, only under heavy electrical load.

Leads me to believe I need a 'better' VR. Heavy Duty. anything.


67Dart273 said:
You said this:





This MEANS one of two things:

1....either this alternator DOES HAVE an internal regulator

2...or there is some sort of field short or wiring problem that is causing the regulator to be essentially ineffective

This also means.........

1...that if internally regulator, whatever regulators you are buying are not needed and incorrect

2...that in any case the external regulator is NOT the root cause of this problem, even though it may be failing. The "actual" problem is the cause of the regulator failing.
Click to expand...

OR that the external VR failed in the 'charge' position...
 
Instead of the alternator side, have you checked the other side of the regulator? As mentioned earlier, it sounds like the regular employs a sense wire. Perhaps under heavy load this wire is dropping too much voltage and causing the alternator to overcharge? Just throwing ideas out there now since it sounds like you've tried most other things. About the last thing you could check would be swapping the alternator if you can find a spare just to see if it does something weird at high output requirements. Maybe it has some kind of internal fault that isn't present unless at high loads.

For what it's worth, I'm running two main charge wires. I have a 4 AWG or so wire from the alternator straight to the battery (or starter relay, same difference), but I'm also running the stock charge wire. I'm doing it this way because I still need power at the dash to run all the gauges and didn't feel like rerouting or running a new wire. The parallel charge circuits make the ammeter effectively pointless, but I have a voltmeter in a little gauge cluster under the dash as well. It seems to read on the high side of things though, so I suspect I might have some odd wiring/connections, but everything seems to work fine. Still using an old fashioned electronic regulator.
 
I also ran my alt cable to the battery and up graded it to handle 125 amps when I hooked the two wires together on the amp gauge I put in a low voltage alarm behind the dash that beeps when voltage drops below 11.5/I was looking for a voltage gauge that goes into the cig lighter that I saw somewhere.
 
moparlover said:
the new ones i cant find the pinouts, but it looks like they have a 2 wire pigtail and the main charge wire. it looks like the two wire pigtail is a sense wire and IG wire.

but i'd suggest this... give these people a call, maybe they can give you info. i've seen the guy post on other forums about different alternator questions, he's a guru.

http://www.mechman.com/
Click to expand...

I emailed this guy. He was quick to respond and commented on the issue:

The stock Mopar external regulator was never designed to carry that much field current, that is more than likely why they are failing.

You have two options:

1) You could use the 91102R external adjustable voltage regulator. This unit is designed to handle 15 amps Field current, and will hold up better than an OE mopar unit. We offer these VR’s for $110, and they have the added benefit of being adjustable for the charging voltage.

2) You could just send us your alternator (or order a new from us) and have it custom built with an internal voltage regulator. All you would need to do is connect a single ingnition switched turn on wire to the harness plug, and it would handle the rest. These internal voltage regulators are a little more reliable than the 91102R (in my experience) and also result in less wiring and stuff under the hood.
Click to expand...

And then when asked about how much field draw and what he charges to install a VR in the alternator:

About 7 amps max rotor current on the 160 amp unit.

$60 to install an internal voltage regulator in your unit. You might also consider putting on one of our hard coated Billet-Aluminum 2.9” under drive alternator pulleys if you are road racing it. It will save some rotating mass and HP, and the 160 amp Denso units usually make enough low RPM output to where they are not bothered by the reduced ratio. The race pulley is $29.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'd love to find a Heavy Duty version of the factory VR design and just go with it. Can't find ratings on any of them though...
 
Uhcoog1 said:
OR that the external VR failed in the 'charge' position...
Click to expand...

Did I misunderstand? I thought you said you had to cut ALL wires, that is, the main battery wire? to stop it charging. This sounds more like how a "one wire" with integral regulator would act

Here's the thing...........if a typical isolated field unit is charging out of control, one which uses an external regulator, you should be able to disconnect EITHER field wire to stop it charging.

If you did that, and it continues to charge, then the regulator is NOT the cause.

The problem for me is I don't have documentation on any of this "new" stuff.

Your diagram is not proof that the regulator "was" in the PCM
 
67Dart273 said:
Did I misunderstand? I thought you said you had to cut ALL wires, that is, the main battery wire? to stop it charging. This sounds more like how a "one wire" with integral regulator would act

Here's the thing...........if a typical isolated field unit is charging out of control, one which uses an external regulator, you should be able to disconnect EITHER field wire to stop it charging.

If you did that, and it continues to charge, then the regulator is NOT the cause.

The problem for me is I don't have documentation on any of this "new" stuff.

Your diagram is not proof that the regulator "was" in the PCM
Click to expand...

You are correct - Unplugged the VR and it kept charging (12v going to one of the field terminals, other 'disconnected'. I didn't think that through.

Better look at my wiring and make sure that second wire isn't grounding itself.
 
Checked and found continuity between the negative field and a chassis found. Seems that's the root of my problem at the moment. I'll have to take a look at the alternator and see if that field is rubbing against something behind the alternator and allowing it to ground.

Also, I looked into the different voltage regulators. Here's what I found:

Mopar voltage regulator options:
C8313 "adjustable voltage for up to 7 amp alternators." and "40 to 100 amp plus alternators"
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/a...eavy-duty-external-chrysler-voltage-regulator

C8313 - heavy duty up to 10 amp field draw
"ERCKE Economy External Regulator kit. Includes a good quality standard duty voltage regulator and wiring harness. Note: economy Regulator has a field load capacity of 5 amps. The upgrade heavy duty adjustable regulator has a 10 amp field duty rating"
http://alternatorparts.com/external-voltage-regulator-high-output-alternator-kit.html

C603Z AC Delco
"for 60-114 amp alternators"
Rock auto says:
ACDELCO Part #*C603Z****{#12336870}
REGULATOR,VOLTAGE W/EXTERNAL REGULATOR
REGULATOR,VOLTAGE 2 WHEEL DRIVE; 100, 114 AMP W/EXTERNAL REGULATOR
REGULATOR,VOLTAGE 2 WHEEL DRIVE; W/EXTERNAL REGULATOR EXC. 100, 114 AMP
REGULATOR,INTEGRATED CIRC VOLTAGE 2 WHEEL DRIVE; EXT REG


Standard VR125
40-120 amp*
Notes:*{SELECT, Borg-Warner Brand "P" Version {R296P} Also Available; w/Chrysler Alt; w/40, 50, 90, 120 Amp};Volt. Reg; Years:1989-1989; Per Car Qty:1
Vehicle:*1989 PLYMOUTH HORIZON L4-135ci 2.2L F/I Vin D

Various voltage regulator options:
http://www.cpgenerator.com/voltageregulators.html
 
whatever you do that fixes this, you are paving the way for other hemi swaps dude.

i know it's been hard on you this is annoying etc and it's taking a lot of digging to fix this, but you will solve some problems here that will benefit many people down the road.

the $69 buck fix sounds like a winner. i wonder if he would send you the part or give you a source, and you could document retrofitting those altenators with an onboard VR.

i'm glad you are finding the root of the problem also. that -field grounding out is making the alt pump out all the volts it can, since it thinks the volts are under 12
 
Frankly I'm skeptical that any of the links you posted above are any better than what you have now. I'm not sayin "they ain't" I'm just saying I'm skeptical

If I were you I'd yank that alternator, pull it apart far enough or at least get some good clear photos so that we can tell visually once and for all if it's internal or external regulator. If it's external, then the ohmeter reading you posted IS a problem.

I would also VERIFY that you are showing a reading to ground before you pull the alternator or disturb it much. It's always possible there's a piece "of something" down in there, even a screw, etc. The last thing you want is to get that thing off there, bump the problem out of the way and then not know???? what caused it.

The thing is, there's simply such "a pile" of new stuff that's come out in the last few years, I have not kept up nor do I have docs on any of it.
 
Here is his alternator, this is the ONE AND ONLY style Mopar has used on their 05 and newer RWD cars period. There is no confusion about whether or not its internal or externally regulated, its external. [ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALTERNATOR-05-07-CHRYSLER-300-SERIES-DODGE-MAGNUM-06-07-CHARGER-2-7-3-5-5-7-6-1-/110825336277?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACharger&hash=item19cdb46dd5&vxp=mtr"]Alternator 05 07 Chrysler 300 Series Dodge Magnum 06 07 Charger 2 7 3 5 5 7 6 1 | eBay[/ame]
 
Update on my issue:

Upgraded to a transpo unit. Works great. No more issues. Been through a two day track weekend, a 120 mile open road race, and two 4 hour road trips.

The transpo unit can handle 7 amp field draw. The autozone one obviously couldn't.
 
Thanks. I've never heard of them. Wonder if they are good as they claim. Good luck and let us know if this one fails, LOL

I see on their webpage, they make a kit for failed "in the ECU" regulators as well
 
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