What About Edelbrock 340 Heads?

[1Fast340]

yada yada yada on Quinch. My 408 with flat-top piston ran low 9.70's@2860 pounds in my Duster, 10.08@3200 pounds in my Sons Duster. Now they are on his stock crank flat-top pistons combo running 6.54@3200 pounds. That's around 10.30's or better in the 1/4. No tricks, no bells, and zero whistles. Ohhh and neither decks were cut on the blocks.

Yeah you are using what you have and it makes power,good for you,go ahead and advice the hole world to go for the less good option of the two just because your car runs good instead of the better option.

Im out im not beating this dead horse anymore.

 

[rumblefish360]

Since i love to beat the dead horse.
That chamber is stupid, either get the shortblock right with a set of zerodeck pistons and adjust the head to make the desired compression and get good squish. As a nice bonus you can swap heads later on if you desire to do so on the same shortblock,it also means that if you blow up the shortblock and your heads survive you can slip a normal shortblock without stupid popup pistons under them and keep you squish.
The only acceptable reasons to run popup pistons is if you already have them or you are racing in a class that requires them. all other scenarios get a closed chamber head unless you already have a open chamber head.

Its not that they dont work,its that they are a stupid limitation for future changes .

I am almost on board with this. However, a domed piston isn’t a bad thing if you have the open chamber to go with it. Something like the old TRW slugs and a open chambered OE head or W2’s. This is actually a good combo and would rather run this o sr a flat top and closed chamber but come today, there are no big open chambered heads available.

Now I can not absolutely prove they flow better or perform better because one can argue the piston is heavier and will slow down the entire rotating mass and/or not allow it to speed up (rpm) quickly vs a lighter flat top.

I get you can re work the closed chamber to a larger easier flowing chamber BUT there is only so much material you can remove. Sorry, I can’t say exactly how much can or can not be removed. It’s to general and a loaded question.

Currently, I run the flat top slugs and closed chambered heads. It works great by me. It’s what we got these days.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Flat top pistons are sitting where in the block? With how thick a gasket?
Thanks.

I can't honestly tell you how deep in the block but we will be freshening it as soon as my son pulls it. We have a 1008 Felpro gasket on it.

 

[rumblefish360]

Yeah you are using what you have and it makes power,good for you,go ahead and advice the hole world to go for the less good option of the two just because your car runs good instead of the better option.

Im out im not beating this dead horse anymore.

Well, don’t get worked up on it now. Pittsburgh learned wht to do and as far as I can see, he is the only one running what he does and getting the air flow on wht he has. Porting heads is not for everyone....

One day, I hope to have the room.

 

[1Fast340]

I am almost on board with this. However, a domed piston isn’t a bad thing if you have the open chamber to go with it. Something like the old TRW slugs and a open chambered OE head or W2’s. This is actually a good combo and would rather run this o sr a flat top and closed chamber but come today, there are no big open chambered heads available.

Now I can not absolutely prove they flow better or perform better because one can argue the piston is heavier and will slow down the entire rotating mass and/or not allow it to speed up (rpm) quickly vs a lighter flat top.

I get you can re work the closed chamber to a larger easier flowing chamber BUT there is only so much material you can remove. Sorry, I can’t say exactly how much can or can not be removed. It’s to general and a loaded question.

Currently, I run the flat top slugs and closed chambered heads. It works great by me. It’s what we got these days.

Yep if you are stuck with old open chamber W2s or oem heads then thats a different ballgame, BTW there are another option for pistons than TRW to fill those stock type open chambers if you need the compression and that is Ross and those are much lighter even thought they wont make any squish either in those old heads,im actualy considering this right now for my coming build that will run some kind of iron heads unless i stumble upon a deal i cant say no to. Edelbrock heads are a different deal.

I will repeat this,if you already have a set of RPM340 heads run them,if you dont i think its smarter to go with the standard version and adjust accordingly.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Well, don’t get worked up on it now. Pittsburgh learned wht to do and as far as I can see, he is the only one running what he does and getting the air flow on wht he has. Porting heads is not for everyone....

One day, I hope to have the room.

I will honestly try to help anyone I can but sometimes you gotta call a horse a horse. When I see a picture of a head like the one on page one of this post I call BS. That is NOT the way you port a space limited head (intake runner CC) like small block mopars are. These 170cc runner heads take material removal and if you look at the "common wall" between the ports the wall bends in way to much. That common wall needs pushed over as far as possible and is why I sleeve the head bolt holes. He states that that head flows 300 but yet the track numbers at his weight don't reflect that at all.

 

[1Fast340]

Well, don’t get worked up on it now. Pittsburgh learned wht to do and as far as I can see, he is the only one running what he does and getting the air flow on wht he has. Porting heads is not for everyone....

One day, I hope to have the room.

Nah not bothered much by it,i have all kinds of respect for Pitsburghracers achievements,just pointing out the obvious that things could be done different with more future options among other benefits since i have been in the same boat myself and bought the 340 version of those heads and would not have done so if i was to get another set of Edelbrocks.

 

[SwedishViking]

I will honestly try to help anyone I can but sometimes you gotta call a horse a horse. When I see a picture of a head like the one on page one of this post I call BS. That is NOT the way you port a space limited head (intake runner CC) like small block mopars are. These 170cc runner heads take material removal and if you look at the "common wall" between the ports the wall bends in way to much. That common wall needs pushed over as far as possible and is why I sleeve the head bolt holes. He states that that head flows 300 but yet the track numbers at his weight don't reflect that at all.

I guess your talking about my heads and my time slip?
What numbers would you like to se? 10,5 comp and a purple 557 cam with 13-17% converter slip.

 

[charles mill]

2 cents. I am grateful 4 ur guys past experience. on porting a lot 4 get more important than brand compression is match port! at carb at intake. got me more wins. was stock 340,edelbrock,850 2 sguirter 430 69 swinger o 4spd. did lift lft front on street. o and a road runner re welded rear end this back in 80,s. thanks. also do any type exhaust at connections all.

 

[rumblefish360]

Charlie, come on back and proof read what you wrote.

 

[RAMM]

curious to reasons.... why would somebody buy the Indy LA -X head from hughes vs the eddies..... ?????

It's a tough sell and I know I'm gonna turn a lot of worlds upside down but here goes--

Iron makes more power-EVERYTIME. Iron is more stable. <<<Read this over and over until it clicks.
Seats move in aluminum and must be re-seated after some hard use (cycles). Valvetrain motion is translated more accurately ( refer back to stability comment) . Iron doesn't wick chamber heat (which is HP) out nearly as fast as Al. When you torque even the headbolts down the "click" on the wrench is "positive". It's hard to explain but Iron is the superior medium for heads and everyone looks at you like you're crazy when you say it out loud. The one and only benefit of aluminum is repairability-it can be welded. J.Rob

 

[1Fast340]

It's a tough sell and I know I'm gonna turn a lot of worlds upside down but here goes--

Iron makes more power-EVERYTIME. Iron is more stable. <<<Read this over and over until it clicks.
Seats move in aluminum and must be re-seated after some hard use (cycles). Valvetrain motion is translated more accurately ( refer back to stability comment) . Iron doesn't wick chamber heat (which is HP) out nearly as fast as Al. When you torque even the headbolts down the "click" on the wrench is "positive". It's hard to explain but Iron is the superior medium for heads and everyone looks at you like you're crazy when you say it out loud. The one and only benefit of aluminum is repairability-it can be welded. J.Rob

Not here to start a senseless argumenatation but how come Prostock and Nascar teams and pretty much every other maximum performance application you can find anywhere runs aluminum heads then? They are at a level of money is not an object and if an iron head would make a fraction more power they would use it regardless of repairability.

 

[RAMM]

Not here to start a senseless argumenatation but how come Prostock and Nascar teams and pretty much every other maximum performance application you can find anywhere runs aluminum heads then? They are at a level of money is not an object and if an iron head would make a fraction more power they would use it regardless of repairability.

My post an

Not here to start a senseless argumenatation but how come Prostock and Nascar teams and pretty much every other maximum performance application you can find anywhere runs aluminum heads then? They are at a level of money is not an object and if an iron head would make a fraction more power they would use it regardless of repairability.

I was answering 318willrun's question and basically saying that no one will buy iron when aluminum is an option. My post obviously went right over your head. Not going to debate why Nascar doesn't run them that's a response that displays a real limited and basic understanding of anything being discussed here. J.Rob

 

[1Fast340]

My post an


I was answering 318willrun's question and basically saying that no one will buy iron when aluminum is an option. My post obviously went right over your head. Not going to debate why Nascar doesn't run them that's a response that displays a real limited and basic understanding of anything being discussed here. J.Rob

Hey im not the one who claims that iron makes more power everytime,just trying to learn something from such a statement.

 

[rumblefish360]

Not here to start a senseless argumenatation but how come Prostock and Nascar teams and pretty much every other maximum performance application you can find anywhere runs aluminum heads then? They are at a level of money is not an object and if an iron head would make a fraction more power they would use it regardless of repairability.

I don't know for aure but any head MoPar made after the W2 was aluminum for the 2 things that make then a choice over the iron and thats weight and repairability. That's it.

 

[1Fast340]

I don't know for aure but any head MoPar made after the W2 was aluminum for the 2 things that make then a choice over the iron and thats weight and repairability. That's it.

Yep thats the obvious parts that is great for us "amateurs" , heads up racing in classes where money and repairability is not even a question that has a set minimumweight is a whole different deal where the teams would do pretty much anything for even the slightest extra amount of power and if iron was any better they would run it thats for sure and its the reason im qurious about the statement.

Im not against iron heads at all i just dont get the whole claim that they make more power everytime and was hoping there was some real data behind it.

 

[rumblefish360]

None that I have ever seen.
It’s just all the new heads after the W2 are aluminum for what I stated and we all know.
That and the aluminum can run a higher compression level with 93 octane where iron doesn’t.

Years back, hot rod, car craft, I forget, did a test between the aluminum and iron heDs and found zero difference. Two heads, same design, 1 iron, 1 aluminum, same power output.

There was a discussion here sometime back on that.

 

[B3422w5]

For what the typical weekend racer/ street driver/ part time racer uses a motor for, the difference between iron and aluminum isnt remotely approaching enough significance to even lose 1 second thinking about.
Aluminum is lighter, available, fixable and makes plenty of power. Its absolutely the way to go. Its also more forgiving regards timing/squeeze. Also WAY easier to port

 

[RustyRatRod]

love real testaments

So he says.

 

[RAMM]

For what the typical weekend racer/ street driver/ part time racer uses a motor for, the difference between iron and aluminum isnt remotely approaching enough significance to even lose 1 second thinking about.
Aluminum is lighter, available, fixable and makes plenty of power. Its absolutely the way to go. Its also more forgiving regards timing/squeeze. Also WAY easier to port

I agree and I didn't ask the question as to why anyone would buy the RHS irons from Hughes over aluminum. I said "It is a hard sell" I prefer iron when it is an option which it almost NEVER is. I wish and have suggested EQ make the magnums in aluminum--they would own the market if they were priced accordingly. J.Rob

 

[MopaR&D]

I have a pair of open-chamber Edelbrock LAs the machinist/builder said were basically only as good as factory iron in stock form, he ported them to flow 290+ cfm starting at 248 for unported. $1500 or so worth of labor but most of his time is spent porting and dyno-testing race BBC and turbo LS engines well into quadruple-digit HP so this was probably cake for him, fortunately he and the owner did it as a favor and even still I'm a tad over $2000 into the heads including purchase price, plenty of machining and parts (ALL new valves, springs, hardware). I haven't run them on the engine yet but they'll be serious, also post pics when I can.

In a nutshell... I think there are better ways to get 290+ cfm for $3500, probably less. I'd start looking at the new Trick-Flows tbh. Also don't go for other people's used damaged parts thinking you'll save money LOL

 

[rumblefish360]

In a nutshell... I think there are better ways to get 290+ cfm for $3500, probably less. I'd start looking at the new Trick-Flows tbh. Also don't go for other people's used damaged parts thinking you'll save money LOL

I think this was and is and will always be the cave eat until the market catches up. W9’s flow the 290 OOTB (Or so says MoPar) The aftermarket offerings (not including MoPar) above the stock head are the rpm heads and then the brodix or Indy head. Not a lot of inbetween. Now that times are (finally) changing again for us MoPar guys, the not yet released Trick Flow heads and the recent Victor heads are filling voids.

Ma MoPar still has the W2 (260cfm as cast) & W9 (290cfm as cast) available. Finishing the head if you need to port it and valve train are the expensive draw back. That’s the price of off setting the rocker on the W2 and the W9 is very different and expensive.

Most people just freak at that prospect.

 

[MopaR&D]

I think this was and is and will always be the cave eat until the market catches up. W9’s flow the 290 OOTB (Or so says MoPar) The aftermarket offerings (not including MoPar) above the stock head are the rpm heads and then the brodix or Indy head. Not a lot of inbetween. Now that times are (finally) changing again for us MoPar guys, the not yet released Trick Flow heads and the recent Victor heads are filling voids.

Ma MoPar still has the W2 (260cfm as cast) & W9 (290cfm as cast) available. Finishing the head if you need to port it and valve train are the expensive draw back. That’s the price of off setting the rocker on the W2 and the W9 is very different and expensive.

Most people just freak at that prospect.

And nowadays you can get a Gen 3 5.7L Hemi out of a pickup truck with the Eagle heads that flow 300+ cfm in factory stock form and is overall a superior engine design. No real point in building an SBM wedge to that same level unless you like spending extra money or have specific racing class rules to meet. Those Trick-Flow and Victor SB heads couldn't have come too soon because IMO in 5-10 years the old LA/Magnum engine will be overshadowed by the G3 Hemi, prices are already coming down pretty fast for conversions and parts and the power potential is on a whole other level.

 

[rumblefish360]

5.7 heads are 300 cfm as cast & OOTB?

The expense of the current HEMI will keep them from showing up in old cars for the most part.

 

[MopaR&D]

5.7 heads are 300 cfm as cast & OOTB?

The expense of the current HEMI will keep them from showing up in old cars for the most part.

Oh yeah, all 2009-later 5.7L heads flow 310 cfm on the intakes BONE stock; the ports are almost 2" square and the intake valves are 2.05" IIRC.

The expense is going down rapidly was my point, I got a whole 2014 5.7L for $600 with 134k miles because it ate a lifter and cam lobe. A few years ago it was $1800+ to swap a G3 in a classic, now it's more like $1200 and still getting cheaper.