What oil has zinc now?

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I thought I'd chime in since this issue is close to my heart. Dad just had the pleasure of wiping the cam in his 71 Challenger r/t. Now, the kicker is, this is the original engine, with the original valvetrain, with only 31,000 miles on it. At first I was skeptical about the oil, but now there is no doubt in my mind that the oil is to blame. I am thinking about going with Penrite oil when we put the new cam in his car, its seems to have about the highest amount of zinc and phosphorous, around .140 and .130, respectively. VR-1, from valvoline's website, is also good, .130 and .120 respectively, but make sure you find the bottle that says "offroad" or "race use only". I was told by their representative that this has the higher zinc. Interestingly, mobil 1 and castrol's websites do not even list the zince or phosphorous amounts of their standard 10w-30 or 10w-40 oils. And when I called castrol and asked about the flat tappet problems, I asked if their castrol HD oil had enough zinc, and they said that was "propietary information".
 
Thanks for digging that up, Woody. I wonder what response you'd have gotten for posting that earlier in the thread?

Funny nobody responded to it, even now.
 
Standard VR1 does not ahve any more zink than anything else SL or lower rated. However, the VR1 racing that is labeled as not legal for street use has a ton. That's what I use now. It's $7? a qt, and I order mine at Car Quest. SJ is tha top choice if you can find old stocks of it. I have some CQ SJ rated 20-50 that's ok. But everything else that says SL or SM is low in zink. Zink wont stop a cam from going bad if there' another issue. And I wouldnt stop running it once the cam is broken in. You can add a bottle of Comp additive (or Hughes, or whoever) every oil change, or just add the couple bucks per bottle to the oil cost and buy better oil. One way or another, you have to pay. If you dont, you may be paying for a lot more. Deisel oils have thier own rating system. But they will also have the automotive rating on the same gold medallion. Nothing later than SJ is acceptable IMO.

PS - Not legal is applicable only if your car is required to run catalytic convertors. Most musclecars before '76 are not a problem.
 
ptowntsi said:
amsoil has a special high zinc oil for flat tappet engines. im a dealer if that matters.
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Isn't it called "Extra Protection" or "Premium Protection" or something like that? I have been using the Formula 2000 20W-50 Severe Service Racing Oil. The response I got from them said it had a zinc concentration around 1370ppm. They have about a half dozen oils with Zinc concentrations in the 1370-1380 range. I think they were 5W-30, 10W-40, a couple of 20W-50s, and an SAE 60.
 
Sounds like this will be a subject to follow continously!
Any correct info is only correct till the epa and the oil producers change it again.
And they sure won't tell us old schoolers.
A friend just took out the cam on his 413 Max Wedge. He had old info and he bought his oil right after a change in content.

"Propriatary"? If we knew then we wouldn't buy, and thats lower profits for them. They don't care if we wipe a cam or 2, it just means we'll be buyin more oil for the rebuild.
 
charger70 said:
Kinda sad really.
Too bad he felt that personal attacks would get his point across. Maybe could have given some good input if he could have stuck to the facts.
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We've had a few knowledgable guys that were loud-mouths in the past. I agree that him being a jerk prevented the good from being shared. All of us lose....

I really do hate giving members the boot, but if you read what he sent me in a PM you'd do the same.... a real low-class trash-mouth hiding behind his keyboard. It's easy to be brave that way... :angry7:
 
You should have seen the PM where he told me to F` off!
 
charger70 said:
Fastback340,
I read that last post before you deleted it.
Totally justified banning.
Nuf said
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X 2

I have been following this thread as my motor is getting closer to fire-up. Hopefully within the next 30 days.

Actually was at walmart this morning and saw some Rotella brand, but I don't believe it is the same formula as posted here. I truly didn't know about the zinc problem and was quite interested in the info posted. I would have used a standard brand valvoline or any other brand name until now.......

Too bad Ace had to go over the edge trying to make his point. Not the correct way to disagree.........

Hopefully, the other great techs we have here will continue to chime in on this subject.

Thanks again FABO.......And correct call John :thumrigh: He wanted to be booted.=;
 
Wow, looks like I missed all the excitement. Apparently Ace is not the place with the helpful hardware man, lol!

OK, back the regularly scheduled program:

First cam was a Crane. Smoked the first cam's #6 intake lobe. I used Valvoline VR1 20W-50 on break-in (the label did not say "Racing Use Only" as Moper pointed but it did say "Racing Motor Oil") and no additive of any sort other then the paste that's supplied with the cam. I followed Crane's reccomendations for break-in to the letter and primed the oil system prior to firing the engine.

Second cam is a Lunati. I used SJ rated Rottella SAE 30 (per Lunati's recommendation to use a single weight oil) and Hughes Engines additive. The Lunati break-in paste was applied as indicated. Being super paranoid now that I had already killed one cam, I also coated the sides of the lifters with a full synthetic to promote lifter rotation. All seems well so far and there's no tick whatsoever.



Here's a little rev sesion just for fun:
 
Ace said:
Big-mouth has been BANNED..... Demoted from ACE to a JOKER
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It was just a matter of time. It seems like all he ever did was jump into threads to attack someone, insinuate that they knew nothing, launch some insults, and never backed up his supposed knowledge with any information or facts. Maybe he is one of those teenagers who loves to harrass people while hiding behind the anonimity and safety his computer provides. Oh well. He can always go after people on Youtube.
 
ramcharger said:
Wow, looks like I missed all the excitement. Apparently Ace is not the place with the helpful hardware man, lol!

OK, back the regularly scheduled program:

First cam was a Crane. Smoked the first cam's #6 intake lobe. I used Valvoline VR1 20W-50 on break-in (the label did not say "Racing Use Only" as Moper pointed but it did say "Racing Motor Oil") and no additive of any sort other then the paste that's supplied with the cam. I followed Crane's reccomendations for break-in to the letter and primed the oil system prior to firing the engine.

Second cam is a Lunati. I used SJ rated Rottella SAE 30 (per Lunati's recommendation to use a single weight oil) and Hughes Engines additive. The Lunati break-in paste was applied as indicated. Being super paranoid now that I had already killed one cam, I also coated the sides of the lifters with a full synthetic to promote lifter rotation. All seems well so far and there's no tick whatsoever.
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From what I have read, VR-1 is supposed to be one of the oils that is good. I wonder if they changed it.
 
6pk2goDemon said:
X 2

I have been following this thread as my motor is getting closer to fire-up. Hopefully within the next 30 days.

Actually was at walmart this morning and saw some Rotella brand, but I don't believe it is the same formula as posted here. I truly didn't know about the zinc problem and was quite interested in the info posted. I would have used a standard brand valvoline or any other brand name until now.......

Too bad Ace had to go over the edge trying to make his point. Not the correct way to disagree.........

Hopefully, the other great techs we have here will continue to chime in on this subject.

Thanks again FABO.......And correct call John :thumrigh: He wanted to be booted.=;
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From looking at Shell's site it looks like the situation is that there are a few different oils under the name Rotella and only the "Rotella T Triple Protection" still has a good level of Zinc. It is marketed as an "off road" oil.
 
ramcharger said:
Wow, looks like I missed all the excitement. Apparently Ace is not the place with the helpful hardware man, lol!

OK, back the regularly scheduled program:


OMG :sign5: The "helpful hardware man".......that is funnier than Sh*t........quite witty.

But really do you think your choice of oil was the problem with your cam? Or was there another issue.......

Not trying to be a smart ***.....very interested in this thread. THX
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It seems that if there was a problem with the oil in many of these cases that it would be more than one lobe getting wiped out. I would look more towards a lifter not rotating or something along that line.
 
Just curious: When did they start removing the zinc? I know I've been hearing about it for a few years now. Around '94, my partner and I wiped a cam in our new Stock Eliminator 440. We used 30 wt. dino, worn out springs, assembly lube. Things he'd been doing for 25 years. Never had a problem before. The cam manufacturer couldn't offer an answer. (Other than to blame us as clueless.:angry7:) Through the grapevine, we heard that they were using cores that were too soft. But who knows? Could the no-zinc thing have been an issue that far back?
This is a great thread. Nothing worse than ruining a brand new motor and it ain't yer own fault!!!
Let's show a copy of the Constitution to ALGore and ask him where it says the government should have their noses in the level of zinc in oil (not to mention the zillions of other places they have their noses and shouldn't!). Rant "off".
 
The VR1 is shown as a racing and street oil. The valvoline RACING oil is the stuff I use. Sorry. I get it at Car Quest and they just call it VR1 "that's not legal..."lol.
 
6pk2goDemon said:
But really do you think your choice of oil was the problem with your cam? Or was there another issue.......

Not trying to be a smart ***.....very interested in this thread. THX
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Longgone said:
It seems that if there was a problem with the oil in many of these cases that it would be more than one lobe getting wiped out. I would look more towards a lifter not rotating or something along that line.
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It most certainly wasn't rotatating when I broke it down, but maybe the question should be what caused it? Was it one soft lifter or lubrication related? Did the lifter not rotating cause the lobe failure or did a soft lifter prevent rotation? Was the lifter non-rotation caused by lubrication failure?

I think examination by metalurgist would be the only way to know for sure.
 
Thrashed, click on racing oils.. That's the one I was talking about. Blue bottle, not silver. Accordign to the EPA, any oil tagged SM cannot have the high zink. No exceptions. There are other additives that might do a similar job, but I dunno. The racing oils are not API rated.
 
moper said:
The VR1 is shown as a racing and street oil. The valvoline RACING oil is the stuff I use. Sorry. I get it at Car Quest and they just call it VR1 "that's not legal..."lol.
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I'm gonna have to check that out at the local CQ. The VR1 I used on the first cam was from Checker. It said "VR1 Racing Oil" but didn't say "Off Road Use Only".
 
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