What went wrong??

[Small Block]

I'm still puzzeled on the reason the car manufacturers haven't made a profit. Back in the day when i was drooling on em at the dealers(69/70)they offered an unlimited choice of options one could choose from and they still made money, didn't they? Now you walk in and buy what's in front of you with NO choices at all and the goons cant pull it together. Seems with no choices by us the overhead should go down. When the wife and i went to buy our 06 Charger i ask about ordering a red one and like in days gone by, i wanted the dealer to take it down and have a dealer installed vinyl top put on. Definatly no dice. What's wrong with this picture. I think someone is blowing smoke up our backside and trying to make us like it. You're thoughts.
Small Block

 

[pettybludart]

Same as me,when I bought my 04 F-150 FX4 4x4 I wanted Silver with grey on the bottom.No deal,only red,yellow,blue,black.So I settled for blue with grey on the bottom.Now they make them in any colour you want.No wonder they,re all hurting,they,re not accomadateing the customer for what they want.If I see another little silver car........I,m done!

 

[memike]

They want to make us take what they got...
No more:bootysha: I want a red or white int with a white car or red car with white int.
We have been taken for what they think we want.:wack: and they dropped the ball.
and built them to just thoughts of what they think we wanted and that's it.
Ain't got time to satisfy the customer just got time to make a sale.
We need to take the time and expense to give us what we want to pay for :thumbrig: Not an assembly line guess.
Influence of some one said "This is it and we can make 40.000 of them and we can sell them ,get them dun now.:wack:
They better look at what the customer wants and fire half of the so called designers and reps we or they don't need and get back to tha basics NOW!!

 

[moparsegura]

There all junk now anyway. No such thing as an American car. Even if it was built here, it was assembled from parts that were shipped in. I really really hate to say it but that's why the imports are doing so well. Look at the crap Nissan and Toyota is building. They will sell you what ever you want and even have a ton of parts to buy over the counter at there dealerships.

 

[moparker]

I tell you why! They don't stand behind there god damn product. Stupid **** goes wrong at 37,000 miles and they tell you tough ****. I had a 95 Intrepid that the fuel rail was leaking. The dealer told me there is gonna be recall to be patient. My pregnant wife drove the car at the time. I told them this and they said take it to a dealer and they will reimburse me when it is recalled. I did just that then they shorted me on my refund cause it took the Chrysler dealer to long in there opinion to fix the car! So I had to send a nasty letter and all this crap just to get reimbursed for there f-up. This is not a worker issue,they just do what there told. This is a upper management issue. I could go on and on about the dodges i've had that have had stupid stuff happen at low miles. Toyotas have stood behind any problems (if any) even if you're not the original owner. The American public can't afford at this place in time to buy a new car every 3 years. They keep taking about building more fuel efficient cars that's not the problem. Build a good product and stand behind it! Has anyone noticed the resale value on honda and toyotas? They are high as hell. That's because you can buy a Toyota with 100,000 miles and get another 100,000 pretty much rouble free. I know this is gonna piss some people off and, I apologize for that but, this is my take. Again I want to sterss that the good union workers are not to blame it is upper management. I'm sue ther are plenty of workers that know some parts and procedures they are told to do are wrong but, they can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[340GTSDart]

I think the first thing that went wrong is all the additional competition. In the good old days, toyotas, datsuns, and hondas were jokes. Then when people started getting shafted at dealerships for warrenty/repair work, they looked elsewhere. Toyota and Honda would accomodate them. Now look where we are at.

As was noted above, about problems with new cars with hardly any miles on them, I just recently bought a 2006 Dodge truck and at 36K miles it already needs brakes and ball joints. The truck I'm getting rid of is a 1996 Ford F350 I bought new and has 375K miles on it. It has the original shoes on the rear and is on it's 2nd set of pads up front. I replaced the ball joints at 310K miles only because I had it apart already, they were still ok. I hope I'm not making a mistake getting rid of my old Ford, as these newer cars surely aren't cheap to buy, then having to do repairs that you would have to do normally with an older vehicle.

The last new car we bought (also the last car we had bought) is a 2000 Dodge Durango. Very reliable car, although they have a bad reputation, never had big problems with it (a couple of power door locks and power window motor). When we bought this car, you could still option it somewhat. We are looking to get rid of it with the new clunker bill (it has 190K on it) and have been looking for a replacement that gets better gas mileage. I think we are going to get a Ford Escape. Checking these things out, they virtually have no options, as was noted previously. Here's the car, this is how it comes, do you want it or not. Also, we've noticed, at least in our area, that dealers have very little inventory on the lot. Times sure have changed and for the worst, at least in my opinion.

 

[Small Block]

It seems my father once told me at the surrender of the Japanese on the deck of a carrier the CO for the japanese said "The next time we will take America from within". Sounds like it's a done deal. How about wage to cost ratios. Back in 1969 i was a first period apprentice in the carpenters union local 1453 in Huntington Beach, Calif and my wage was $3.41 an hr. (journeymen $12 hr) and a 70 model Road Runner was between $3500 and $4000. Now a performance car of today, lets say a Charger/Challenger cost about $27000 for a 6 banger and will cost ya $34000 for a V8. So if the ratio remained the same or close then an apprentice of today should be making about $27-$34 per hr. (journeyman $100-$120 per hr).Not happening. Whats wrong with this picture?
Small Block

 

[Dan201]

My dad works at a GM factory and I used to work for one of there suppliers but now work building Toyota in a factory the one thing I can tell you is no matter how many guys building cars get laid off or how many shifts get cut back at a gm plant they still hire more supervisors and management staff I watched a plant go from 3 shift with almost 200 people to 120 people or less on 2 shifts and they hired 4 more people for management where my dad works they went from 1 supervisor for 3 shifts of maintenence in one department 20 years ago to 3 supervisors and a manger per shift with the same number of maintence people the companies are getting very top heavy that is one of the reasons toyota is doing better then the big three they replace people not add to hopefully it stays that way the gm plant my dad works in continues expanding the office even though the number of line workers is shrinking Ie. they went from 3 shifts to 1 shift and still hire management guys go figure

 

[Dan201]

and as far as options go I build a 60K plus vehicle that comes with tan grey and black interiors and if you really want to go crazy you can go black and grey together seems a little limited to me but maybe thats what the rich want

 

[magnumdart]

I thought a Sebring 'vert with a stick might be cool. Guess what? They are all automatics. You name a car after a race like that and no stick? Screw 'em. I bought a Cobalt.

 

[ramenth]

For years the American car companies have been telling us what we want, not listening to what we want. A buddy of mine had an '03 Dakota, stripped out, 4.7 with the 6-speed. Now they've upped the horse, but available only as an automatic. The Chargers? Autos. The old Dak R/Ts? Autos. Everything comes as an option package and if you want something you have to give up something else because it's in a different option group. Go to dodge's website and build the SRT of your dreams. Can't do it. You'll find that even with the SRTs you have to give something up to get something else.
Now let's navigate all those packages, shall we? What's the deal with all the levels of packages with the LT, the SLT, the Laramie, the Long Horn, the Big Ram, the Track whatever, the Short *****, the Long *****, the Hemi in this truck available with the stick, the Hemi in this truck only with the auto, the 6.7 in this truck available with 3.92s but not 4.10s. Keep It Simple, Stupid! Why should I have to hire a design engineer, a rocket scientist, a lawyer, a maid, and a homeless person to navigate all this s*** because even the salesman is confused by it all? And the Mustang is even worse! Do you want the base model, the GT, the Shelby GT, the CS, the Bullitt, The Rousch base, the Rousch 427R, the P51, the Shelby GT500, the KR, the Super Snake or the Super Snake with no warranty? Oh, by the way, the GT, the CS, and the Bullitt are all the same car, but you can only have the CS in orange with the CS call outs, the Bullitt is only available in green and they both have interior packages and wheels you can only get on them and not the GT, but you can have the GT with better options than the other two.
Throw into the mix dealerships who take long term customers for granted, ("Oh, I've been buying my cars here since 1952"), salesmen who wouldn't know a car if it ran over 'em and you'll see that the American car companies have screwed themselves into a whole.
American quality suffered for years. Remember the K-car? Or the early Taurus? The transmissions we've had to put up with? Honda's auto is basically a converted stick. Subaru's boxer engine that's simplicity personified? I've had Subaru tranny's out and on the bench in 45 minutes. Ford seems to have a design flaw that says "how complicated can we make this?" GM has gone to an aluminum cradle to lighten everything up under the CAFE standards but all the welds pop and snap that makes the customer think that his suspension is coming apart.
American quality has rebounded big time over the long in the tooth, let's make-everything-cheap-base-every-car-on-the-K-car-platform of Iacocca. But a lot of Americans still remember those days. They got sold on Honda and Toyota 20 years ago and it stuck. Unfortunately.

 

[ramcharger]

I bought a brand new 97 Dakota with a 5.2 and a five speed and 4x4. Within 6 months I broke the the rear end, then the transfer case just tooling around on my 42 acres I had at the time. Then the rear end broke again 3 years later. No, I was wasn't rock crawling, just exploring my property.

I decided to upgrade and traded up to a 2001 5.9. They did not offer and I could not order the 2001 1500 Off-Roadster with a manual behind the 5.9. fine, I figured I'd give the auto a shot. It never shifted right and full throttle on-ramp and full throttle pulls up the mountains here it would down shift into first at 50 mph!!! I brought it back numerous times and it was never fixed. At least I never broke the rear end and transfer case though.

I'll never buy a new car again, waste of money and time. As soon as it rolls out the door you're 5 to 8 grand in debt and dealing with the service dept there had me pulling my hair out.

I'll stick with my Ramcharger. Do I get compliments from the ladies, have a 6 speaker stereo, a stellar midnight blue paint job and have power seats and air? Hell no, but it gets about the same mileage, has more power, shifts the way it's supposed to and can pull more weight. I'll never break the driveline tooling around off road either. Once I get the bodywork done, I might get some compliments too, lol.

 

[ramenth]

I bought a brand new 97 Dakota with a 5.2 and a five speed and 4x4. Within 6 months I broke the the rear end, then the transfer case just tooling around on my 42 acres I had at the time. Then the rear end broke again 3 years later. No, I was wasn't rock crawling, just exploring my property.

I decided to upgrade and traded up to a 2001 5.9. They did not offer and I could not order the 2001 1500 Off-Roadster with a manual behind the 5.9. fine, I figured I'd give the auto a shot. It never shifted right and full throttle on-ramp and full throttle pulls up the mountains here it would down shift into first at 50 mph!!! I brought it back numerous times and it was never fixed. At least I never broke the rear end and transfer case though.

I'll never buy a new car again, waste of money and time. As soon as it rolls out the door you're 5 to 8 grand in debt and dealing with the service dept there had me pulling my hair out.

I'll stick with my Ramcharger. Do I get compliments from the ladies, have a 6 speaker stereo, a stellar midnight blue paint job and have power seats and air? Hell no, but it gets about the same mileage, has more power, shifts the way it's supposed to and can pull more weight. I'll never break the driveline tooling around off road either. Once I get the bodywork done, I might get some compliments too, lol.

Hence the reason why it irks my wife when I tell her hell, no my Ramcharger won't go!

 

[ramcharger]

Hence the reason why it irks my wife when I tell her hell, no my Ramcharger won't go!

Mines a '74 (first year), built in Missouri and tough as nails! Dana 44 in front and corporate 9 1/4 in the rear, leaf springs all around. Cast iron NP203 transfer case. Only way I could break this thing is extreme rock crawling which I don't do anyway. The factory skid plates weigh a ton, lol! I suppose I could upgrade to a Dana 60 front and rear but it's just not necessary for what I use it for. It'll get me to any sane camp/fishing spot here in Colorado towing a pop-up to boot. That's all I really need and more than any dealer bought truck out there can do with the exception of maybe a Jeep Rubicon for 30K and I wouldn't be able to tow a car trailer behind it.

Keep that RC. They don't make 'em this anymore. 8)

 

[64dart170]

The car companies should roll out a "vintage version" of whatever make, model.
The cars would be made as per each was back in the day except with disk brakes. (No computers or injection etc..you know, electric nothing!)
The customers who ordered would have to pay a little extra to go around EPA, etc, and sign a release of liability to manufacturer for not including air bags!
With all the crap on the cars today, people get the isolated, air bagged, double strapped in, SAFE feeling they can drive like idiots and not get hurt! The only reason we need that crap is because the cars are made of plastic today with a little steel foil thrown in, and won't hold up in an accident.
Anyway, if we could make them & sell them, how many jobs would be brought back to build them. Remember, we wouldn't be able to export (so the f what!) and the insurance would probibly cost more.
They could still charge big bucks but the cars would be cheaper to build (less parts than now), and would be easier to work on.
Thoughts? I know, dream on.............................................................

 

[homecloned]

It seems my father once told me at the surrender of the Japanese on the deck of a carrier the CO for the japanese said "The next time we will take America from within". Sounds like it's a done deal. How about wage to cost ratios. Back in 1969 i was a first period apprentice in the carpenters union local 1453 in Huntington Beach, Calif and my wage was $3.41 an hr. (journeymen $12 hr) and a 70 model Road Runner was between $3500 and $4000. Now a performance car of today, lets say a Charger/Challenger cost about $27000 for a 6 banger and will cost ya $34000 for a V8. So if the ratio remained the same or close then an apprentice of today should be making about $27-$34 per hr. (journeyman $100-$120 per hr).Not happening. Whats wrong with this picture?
Small Block

You nailed it there Small Block. It just doesn't add up.:dontknow:

 

[magnumdart]

Remember th SS 454 Cheby pickup? One way, one package, one color, one interior type one type of wheel, one audio system, etc, etc... Base price about $18000 and not even worth that. They told me they had an offer for about 39K. I just laughed. Two weeks later the whole place was shut down. Go figure.

 

[ramenth]

Remember th SS 454 Cheby pickup? One way, one package, one color, one interior type one type of wheel, one audio system, etc, etc... Base price about $18000 and not even worth that. They told me they had an offer for about 39K. I just laughed. Two weeks later the whole place was shut down. Go figure.

I remember that pain in the a** only one color thing on the "SS" 454, back when I was at a local Shovy dealer's body shop. A couple of brothers around here who have more money than brains like all their new toys to be red. So what does the salesman say them when he closes the deal? "Sure, we can have our body shop paint that in red for you." Spent a week getting the damned thing prepped for every square inch of black to be painted red. Now one owns a red SRT10 Ram and the other owns a red Rousch Midnite.
At least the salesman at Ford didn't promise to put a P51 in red for them. It only comes gold.

 

[ramenth]

With all the crap on the cars today, people get the isolated, air bagged, double strapped in, SAFE feeling they can drive like idiots and not get hurt! The only reason we need that crap is because the cars are made of plastic today with a little steel foil thrown in, and won't hold up in an accident

Thank the CAFE standards for that. USA Today did an article a few years ago that said a 100,000 lives have been lost on America's highways due to the CAFE standards since it's inception.

 

[player1up]

So many things went wrong I wouldn't know where to begin. One of the HUGE problems is that 64dart170 brought up is that people don't care about driving. Your average Joe wants to get in and mash the pedal while doing everything in the car BUT drive. Go smash your brand new sedan into a pole and you'll be safe......WHY DON'T WE PUNISH THE IDIOT FOR DRIVING LIKE A SACK?....No longer does the driver of a car feel anything behind the wheel. For craps sake some of the cars are so damn quiet that the driver can't hear an emergency vehicle until it's in the rear seat.
One of the reasons that the CAFE standards are so hard to meat is that you can't get a 5000lb car to get 50MPG because of the safety features.
I was watching a car and driver episode on Speed that featured the all new volkswagon GTI. I almost fell down when they said the car weighed in at 3200-3300 lbs ( http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_volkswagen_gti-second_drive )
WTF? I got to thinking that it must be all of that safety crap that makes a 2 door hatchback weigh the same as a 2-door a-body, or maybe it's the cup holders or dvd player or GPS nav or power lift gate or air bags or blah blah blah....DAMNIT I'M PISSED NOW.....If I'm on the cell phone and I smash MY car into a tree and die, it's my own damn fault. Why do people expect to be saved from there own stupidity? OK I feel better now

 

[magnumdart]

Should have called this thread what didn't go wrong. Probably be blank.

 

[64dart170]

So many things went wrong I wouldn't know where to begin. One of the HUGE problems is that 64dart170 brought up is that people don't care about driving. Your average Joe wants to get in and mash the pedal while doing everything in the car BUT drive. Go smash your brand new sedan into a pole and you'll be safe......WHY DON'T WE PUNISH THE IDIOT FOR DRIVING LIKE A SACK?....No longer does the driver of a car feel anything behind the wheel. For craps sake some of the cars are so damn quiet that the driver can't hear an emergency vehicle until it's in the rear seat.
One of the reasons that the CAFE standards are so hard to meat is that you can't get a 5000lb car to get 50MPG because of the safety features.
I was watching a car and driver episode on Speed that featured the all new volkswagon GTI. I almost fell down when they said the car weighed in at 3200-3300 lbs ( http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_volkswagen_gti-second_drive )
WTF? I got to thinking that it must be all of that safety crap that makes a 2 door hatchback weigh the same as a 2-door a-body, or maybe it's the cup holders or dvd player or GPS nav or power lift gate or air bags or blah blah blah....DAMNIT I'M PISSED NOW.....If I'm on the cell phone and I smash MY car into a tree and die, it's my own damn fault. Why do people expect to be saved from there own stupidity? OK I feel better now

It kind of weirded me out yesterday. ABodyBetty and I use our Darts as daily drivers (long broke story) anyway, currently unemployed so I volunteered time for where she works (Head Sart Teacher) and we had to go to several towns in our local area to prep classrooms for painting. She drove our 64 to work and came back later to pick me up in one of the "company" cars, newer Chebby Impalla, I got in and immediately rolled down my window and shut off the AC. LOL...
As we were pulling away I told her about the brake noise in the front pass wheel I was hearing. We didn't even go a mile and I turned off the radio. She asked what was I doing, I told her that it was irratating me. We both kinda looked at each other for a moment, and I told her when I drive or ride I like to hear the car to get a warning if something is about to go wrong. She laughed and said it was that I was so used to driving with no radio, AC, power stuff and that I hate change so much that I couldn't even ride in a newer car without shutting everything off!!! LOL!!
I tell you the truth by the time she dropped me off, I told her I had to go in and shower all the new Chebby Chit off me and I was going in to get her a change of clothes to put on before she got into my 64 to come home! LOL!!
I didn't want my "Baby" catching anything that car had!! COODIES YUk!!!
The comment was made though that all the different people driving the Co. car never noticed the brake noise!:-D

 

[homecloned]

Shower off the Chebby Chit....thats funny 64dart170.:cheers:I know what you mean, whenever I get in to drive the wifes Chebby Avalanche she has the air set on arctic blast, the first I do is turn it off. I find part of the reason drivers are so oblivious to what going on is because they are to comfortable in the cars. :-D

 

[64dart170]

Couple of other things....You have to wait for the driver to un lock the door for you due to auto lock & wait to have the key in it to have the window rolled down because theres no handle there, just a damn button, and......
ABodyBetty will you just please put the dang key in before you put that sholder thingey on, It's hot in here!!!!!
Dang........................
LOL!

 

[hotrodscamp]

It seems my father once told me at the surrender of the Japanese on the deck of a carrier the CO for the japanese said "The next time we will take America from within". Sounds like it's a done deal. How about wage to cost ratios. Back in 1969 i was a first period apprentice in the carpenters union local 1453 in Huntington Beach, Calif and my wage was $3.41 an hr. (journeymen $12 hr) and a 70 model Road Runner was between $3500 and $4000. Now a performance car of today, lets say a Charger/Challenger cost about $27000 for a 6 banger and will cost ya $34000 for a V8. So if the ratio remained the same or close then an apprentice of today should be making about $27-$34 per hr. (journeyman $100-$120 per hr).Not happening. Whats wrong with this picture?
Small Block

You nailed it there Small Block. It just doesn't add up.:dontknow:

So where does all the money go? It lines the pockets of the rich and powerful. They aren't buying the same **** they're sellin' us. They spend a 'bit' more on their vehicles than we do.

Eat the rich. (present company excluded :snakeman: )