What's going on? (brake question)

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fredsmedina

fredsmedina

6 Dart 7 MOPAR OR NOCAR
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Sacramento / Elk Grove CA
The guy that I bought my dart from had definitely done some shady things. But jerry rigging the brakes??? This is the most dangerous thing that I have found that they did screwey.

After replacing all brake lines(all rubber and steel), I went to bleed the system and it was not working. Wasnt getting any pressure to the rear lines. I realized that I had a leak coming from the back of the master cylinder(inside the car on the firewall). After looking at my '67 SM, it said to remove the brake pedal push rod. So when taking off the old master cylinder to replace it with a new one, that is the first thing that I did. When I did this, I was suprised at what came out with the pushrod. Take a look at these pictures and tell me what you think. I probably need a new push-rod, as the tip is also bent on the end that goes into the master cylinder. What else am I missing. Everything that you see in the picture is what was installed on the car. Nothing else. I dont think that this was set up correctly at all judging by the bent "washer"(i dont know what to call it) on the back of the master cylinder. and also, I know the hose clamp on the pushrod can't be correct...

So currently I have a new master cylinder, and a bent tip on the brake pedal pushrod. What do I do now?:banghead:
 

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I've seen that in the past. I would guess that at sometime the pushrod was pryed out of the back of the master cylinder. The indent at the end of your pedal pushrod had a rubber bushing that held the rod in the back of the master cylinder and when you try to force the rod out of the piston it winds up pulling the piston out and bending the retainer tab.
 
Also that spring and washer doesn't belong on a manual brake set up. There is so rigging going on there.
 
So am I just supposed to have the brake pedal, which is connected to the push rod, which just goes directly into the master cylinder?

Because the pressure in the master should automatically 'reset' the pedal back to an up position, and should not need a spring in order to do that correct?
 
Get rid of the clamp, clueless why it is there. New master needed, if it doesn;t come with rubber bushing, make one from vacuum hose.
 
green1 said:
Get rid of the clamp, clueless why it is there. New master needed, if it doesn;t come with rubber bushing, make one from vacuum hose.
Click to expand...

okay, I will do that. But should I worry about the bent tip on the push rod? And do I need any thing else other than the rod and bushing between the pedal and the master cylinder?
 
Here's my guess..
All the extra parts you have there were to keep the brake lights off.
Someone didn't know how to adjust the brake lamp switch position.
 
No you do not need that spring. The master cylinder alone will push the brake pedal back into position.
 
Thanks guys..
So I dedicated the entire day today to my car..But since this morning, I haven't been able to bleed the brakes. They hold pressure when everything is sealed up. And at 3 of the four wheels, fluid comes out when the bleeder gets cracked open. On my rear right wheel, where I need to start the bleeding, I have fluid at the brake line, but not at the bleeder valve. And even when I hook up my mityvac to it, nothing is coming through.. its almost as if something inside that drum is plugged up between where the brake line comes in, and the bleed valve...If that makes any sense. somebody please chime in..
 
That clamp was probably for a return spring addition for the pedal.
Very possible to make the brakelight go off like mentioned.
 
fredsmedina said:
Thanks guys..
So I dedicated the entire day today to my car..But since this morning, I haven't been able to bleed the brakes. They hold pressure when everything is sealed up. And at 3 of the four wheels, fluid comes out when the bleeder gets cracked open. On my rear right wheel, where I need to start the bleeding, I have fluid at the brake line, but not at the bleeder valve. And even when I hook up my mityvac to it, nothing is coming through.. its almost as if something inside that drum is plugged up between where the brake line comes in, and the bleed valve...If that makes any sense. somebody please chime in..
Click to expand...

I think if you take that bleeder screw all the way out and you'll find it plugged with rusty crud.
 
What Red said. Bleeder screws are open to the elements, water goes in, and rust forms. I ALWAYS pack ALL my bleeder screws with wheel bearing grease after I finish bleeding. That way no water can get in there.
 
fredsmedina said:
Thanks guys..
So I dedicated the entire day today to my car..But since this morning, I haven't been able to bleed the brakes. They hold pressure when everything is sealed up. And at 3 of the four wheels, fluid comes out when the bleeder gets cracked open. On my rear right wheel, where I need to start the bleeding, I have fluid at the brake line, but not at the bleeder valve. And even when I hook up my mityvac to it, nothing is coming through.. its almost as if something inside that drum is plugged up between where the brake line comes in, and the bleed valve...If that makes any sense. somebody please chime in..
Click to expand...

You could have a bad wheel cylinder if the bleeder isn't clogged up.
 
Right after posting this yesterday, before anyone had replied, I thought to myself that it may be plugged up, so I made myself a little 'shank' out of a wire coat hanger. The wire pushed right through and fluid started flowing! After that, the rest of the bleeding took maybe a half hour or so.. super easy with my mityvac power bleeder.

Another brake question though...I have adjusted drum brakes before, and I know that when I look through the little hole in the backing plate, I have been able to clearly see the adjusting lever that is keeping the star wheel from backing off..I cannot find it, or see it at all though now... Am I forgetting that I have to look at it a certain way or something? I tightened up all 4 wheels so that I could bleed them, but now I need to loosen them up so that the wheels can spin freely... I did double check my 67 SM, and am doing everything correct as far as I can tell...

So if I am looking into the hole in the rear passenger side brakes from underneath the car, where should the adjusting lever be located, in relation to the star wheel? Like where should I have to put the screwdriver in order to back off the lever? I hope this question makes sense..
 
340sFastback said:
What Red said. Bleeder screws are open to the elements, water goes in, and rust forms. I ALWAYS pack ALL my bleeder screws with wheel bearing grease after I finish bleeding. That way no water can get in there.
Click to expand...

If only I would have read this yesterday...that does make sense though to pack them with a little grease. I did repace them with 4 new bleeders though. Next time I will be sure to remember that little tip about keeping the elements OUT of my brakes..
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
You could have a bad wheel cylinder if the bleeder isn't clogged up.
Click to expand...

before attempting to poke through the rust, I was thinking the same about the wheel cylinder. But I cant find my key to my wheel locks ANYWHERE... I always keep the keys in the top of my toolbox, but wasnt there now. But I am gladthat I found the problem
 
I remember that the adjuster lever stuck down below the adjuster rod enough where I could push it away from the little wheel.

See if this helps



fredsmedina said:
Right after posting this yesterday, before anyone had replied, I thought to myself that it may be plugged up, so I made myself a little 'shank' out of a wire coat hanger. The wire pushed right through and fluid started flowing! After that, the rest of the bleeding took maybe a half hour or so.. super easy with my mityvac power bleeder.

Another brake question though...I have adjusted drum brakes before, and I know that when I look through the little hole in the backing plate, I have been able to clearly see the adjusting lever that is keeping the star wheel from backing off..I cannot find it, or see it at all though now... Am I forgetting that I have to look at it a certain way or something? I tightened up all 4 wheels so that I could bleed them, but now I need to loosen them up so that the wheels can spin freely... I did double check my 67 SM, and am doing everything correct as far as I can tell...

So if I am looking into the hole in the rear passenger side brakes from underneath the car, where should the adjusting lever be located, in relation to the star wheel? Like where should I have to put the screwdriver in order to back off the lever? I hope this question makes sense..
Click to expand...
 

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TrailBeast said:
I remember that the adjuster lever stuck down below the adjuster rod enough where I could push it away from the little wheel.

See if this helps
Click to expand...

That picture does help. makes sense, but I don't see how I am supposed to reach it. The 2 holes in my backing plate are more alligned with the top of the adjster rod. so with the rear end in the way, I cannot get a good angle on the lever at all..no matter what length screwdriver I use..

I literally spent about 2 hours trying to do it..but cannot get the right angle at all to do it.

I'm not sure if there is any sort of tip somebody can give me..but I know that this has to work somehow
 
I just reached in there and felt around with the tip of the screwdriver till I found something that felt sprind loaded and pushed it a little, then held it there and backed off the adjuster.

Sorry, I don't know how else to explain it.
Maybe you could see more if you used a nice bright light?



fredsmedina said:
That picture does help. makes sense, but I don't see how I am supposed to reach it. The 2 holes in my backing plate are more alligned with the top of the adjster rod. so with the rear end in the way, I cannot get a good angle on the lever at all..no matter what length screwdriver I use..

I literally spent about 2 hours trying to do it..but cannot get the right angle at all to do it.

I'm not sure if there is any sort of tip somebody can give me..but I know that this has to work somehow
Click to expand...
 
TrailBeast said:
I just reached in there and felt around with the tip of the screwdriver till I found something that felt sprind loaded and pushed it a little, then held it there and backed off the adjuster.

Sorry, I don't know how else to explain it.
Maybe you could see more if you used a nice bright light?
Click to expand...

yah. Thats what I remember doing in the past also.. It should be alot easier than I am making it. I was just wondering if by chance I was going something wrong though..Appreciate the help though! and yah, I used a good light, and have the car up in the air. Still cannot figure out whats going on.. at certain angles, my U-bolts/shock plates get in the way, so I've just got to figure it out somehow.
 
I have a couple of different pick type tools that have a 45 or 90 degree end. These are great for getting around the adjustment wheel to push the lever away from the star wheel. Makes backing off the adjuster a breeze.
 
I was wondering if something like that would help.
Could even make one.


SGBARRACUDA said:
I have a couple of different pick type tools that have a 45 or 90 degree end. These are great for getting around the adjustment wheel to push the lever away from the star wheel. Makes backing off the adjuster a breeze.
Click to expand...
 
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