Where to start on on my V-8?

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myasylum

myasylum

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I am, going with a V-8 this summer, and I would like some ideas of what to do? I know everyone has a different opinion and that’s o.k. I'm just looking for ideas. I guy I know is trying to get me to go with a 440, too him anything less than a big block is a waste of time. Well, I just really don't want to. Don't ask why, I just don't. I want a 340, but they seem hard to find, so I was going to go with a 360. Is there any year I should look for? I am on a budget so I can't go for a complete rebuild. Also, I’d need a tranny. a 727?? I'd like to stick in a small stall converter. Also I'd need a rear end. What would I look for, for a rear end? I already have disk brakes which is nice.

I found a nice used 360 that had 10,000 miles on it that "looked" killer. Lots of chrome, Aluminum intake, slightly built/ with a tranny for 1,200. He was selling it because he decided to go with a big block. I was really temped to bite, but I thought I'd talk to you experts first. (Not to mention with shipping I doubt it was worth it.) Maybe you can convince me to wait for a 340? I have till Summer really… I need your opions please??

Thanks much guys!
 
everyone wants good coin for a 340...you can save money and get better performance with the 360.
 
everyone says the early 71-75 are good cause they were had thickner cylinder walls...they can be bored the same as a 340 which had a .040 larger bore...but before you bore anything over about .040 the block should be checked out to make sure it will be ok

if the 360 block you are getting is standard...it would not matter what year it is...start with the smallest overboard as possible... like .020

then you have the 89-91 360 LA blocks that are set up for hydraulic roller cams...alot of people like them cause of that feature..

the magnums started in 92...again..set up for hydraulic roller cams..and the magnum heads will out perform just as good as the x and j heads and some people say they are better due to there updated combustion chambers and high swirl ports...

figure out what you want to do and go from there...make a plan...
 
I was reading your thread and thought $1200 for a 360 and tranny with 10,000 miles is a fair price.With having the goodies,alum.intake chrome v.covers.All the little add on,s are extra$$ also with a tranny is good.If you look for casting #,s to make sure it is a true 360 not a 318.Then you could buy some alum. eddy heads and a high stall torque convertor,headders and your off to a good start.Now rearends you should start looking for an a-body 8 3/4 with the big bolt pattern.it all depends on which route your going with your car street/strip or just street?Also hp?You could also look for 8 1/4 s.g rearend they are good up to 300hp maybe a little more,but the 8 3/4 is alot stronger.Hope this helps you with your decisions.I,d go back and offer $1000 you never know??Good Luck!
 
Well, I was really temped, but the guy was in Florida, and I'm in Wisconsin, so shipping was like, $400.00. I just couldn't pull the trigger. I was close. Like I say, I have all winter, and I just didn't want to jump on something just because it was there. On the other hand maybe I should have?

It seems like the 92+ 360's are an obvious choice? Or am I wrong? Are they differnt or more to install than a 70's motor would be?

Thanks, you guys rule!
 
Man, this is an interesting place to start posting here, but everyone seems real nice. To start I'm a slant six guy, I've done a little bit of small block stroker, a lot of 302 and even more slant six stuff. So, if you'll notice my age, you'll conclude that I studied with an engine builder and do my far share of readings. Than the slant six background gives me something with working with budgets.
The 360 is an easy power maker, the 318 isn't to be overlooked as proved recently. My favorite is the 340 for the size versus horsepower is unbeatable. Along with a set of x-heads. I would suggest those for the money as they seem to have lost some value over time. Next, would be the stroker craze. I would also skip this for the money, it's been more of a craze or it can reach a certain horsepower goal if aboslutley needed. But if you'll notice they aren't more efficent maybe even less a 318 that does 320 hp is better, than a 408 that does 400. So in my opinion let's rule out the 340 and stroker.
Next, step I would look at Popular Hot Rodding has done two great articles on building the mighty 318. This has been spectacular readings in contrast to Mopar Muscle. The secret has been 70's or so blocks which i'll come back to in a second and a set of Magnum heads. So, 68 and below had more nickel than the bean counters wanted cheaper blocks so they started to cut back in block integrity by 72. Hence the death of the 340.... Anyways try to get a pre '72 block, next forget about junkyard Magnum heads. These guys are reknown for cracking, and with the abudance of aftermarket heads it's not worth the risk. I would suggest iron heads as my street engine's have been known to overheat due to unforseen problems and you can do the porting yourself. If you have the money go for Aluminum heads, but than were reaching in the budget idea. To go with this aluminum intakes are cheap enough, and chrome is for looks, that's it. It actually hurts performance if you want to be extremely techinical (horsepower TV).
So we got a core and heads... let's not forget about a camshaft and valvetrain. I must suggest roller rockers, I like them, but that is my opinion. They will cost more but will enhance the cam sort of speak. Including but not limited to increased ratio. Than think about your compression ratio, I'm not sure how you can get domed pistons, but they should be high on your list. Cam, compression and heads/carb should be your concern with either the 318 or 360. Last, I must stress about balancing, this is worth the money. So you must make a list of what you want you engine to do this should be the first step. Next, make a list of your priorities for the goodies that go on your engine. Post it here and get some opinions, what I've metioned it hard stuff that your engine would need not want. Man, it would be nice to get back in the game of v8's...
 
If you're starting from scratch then there would be almost no reason to go with a 318 over a 360 (318's still a great engine though, I'm building one right now for my '70 Duster). From there there are a couple options. One is to find a junkyard Magnum engine in good condition and convert it to an old-style carb/intake and ignition setup (maybe a cam too if you have the cash). Another, possibly cheaper/easier option is to get an old LA 360, roller cam or otherwise, and rebuilt it with some performance stuff. I've read the #308 heads on the roller cam 360s flow just as well, if not better than the old J and X heads. What's your budget though for something like this?
 
Not to be rude, but if you were going to junkyard a magnum motor, why would you convert it to a carb? It seems like it would be easier to get the pump and efi hose and have your self modern comforts. However, not a bad idea to take advantage of modern performance.....
However, yes if you were starting from scratch a 360 would be better than a 318. X and J heads are ok, I would even consider learning how to port on them, might be kinda fun. I gotta say though with the cheapness of getting new magnum heads and improvements of design I wouldn't go back to J heads.
Why do you say the 360 came with a roller cam? I'm a little weak on my later small blocks, but no production engine that I'm aware of comes with a roller cam. Unless I'm confusing it for a hydraulic cam? To me there is three types: mechanical, roller, and hydraulic.
My last suggestion is make sure you take care of other things that make your car go fast, ie suspension and gears.
 
I know that in '86 the 318 got the #302 heads and a hydraulic roller cam (there are both hydraulic and mechanical roller cams/lifters) as opposed to the previous hydraulic flat-tappet setup. I'm also pretty sure that a year or so after the 318 the 360 also got the same treatment but with the open-chamber #308 heads. The roller cam setup continued onto the Magnums as well.

I recommended a switch to a carburetor intake just for simplicity and cost reasons. Even if he kept the Magnum engine completely stock, he'd have to do a bit of work (or spend some money) on electronics. Any performance modifications, and he'd have to spend more money on tuning. It wouldn't be too much of a hassle, what with MP's (hopeful) soon release of the EFI Magnum-swap kit, but just because he mentioned his low budget I figured that it would be far more economical to get a good aftermarket dual-plane (which he'd need anyway because I doubt that beer-barrel intake would fit under his hood) and carb to swap on there and call it done.

I also believe that to take full advantage of Magnum heads you need to do some combustion chamber mods and run zero-deck flat-top pistons; without these IMO you're getting much less of an edge over a pair of good J or X heads.

EDIT: You mentioned about strokers being a little less efficient, which I kind of agree with you on. BUT if you run a pair of W2 heads or heavily ported Edelbrocks, power could be as high as your block could handle (around 550) and still be super-streetable.
 
I was in a similar position to what you're in, and wanted to stay out of the engine builder's clutches.

I bought a 5.9 Magnum engine out of a Durango. Low miles, not a lot of money. It has more potential than an earlier 360, but there are some gotchas that end up not being so cheap, especially if you're currently running a /6.

With a Magnum there are some extra things you'll have to buy vs getting an older LA Style engine.

For starters you'd need a car style oil pan and dipstick as well as an LA timing cover. Unless the /6 dizzy is the same as a V8 you'll need one of those as well.

If you want to keep your mechanical fuel pump, you'll have to buy an eccentric adapter from Hughes racing engines, or have a new cam ground on an LA core. I got a custom cam from Comp and went this route. It's not necessary to get a custom cam, but the stock truck unit is not a car oriented performance piece.

Lots of the newer 5.9s come with an integrated pulley on the harmonic balancer. You can find a balancer without the serpentine pulley on it, but they are specific to the Magnum, and I had some difficulty finding one.

The flexplate is another hassle. My plan is to just run the one that came with the engine, but if you ever needed an SFI unit, it would probably be a hassle.

The stock Magnum heads are prone to cracking. My motor had 50,000 miles on it and the heads were cracked between the seats on the #1 cylinder. This problem could leave you having to buy a set of heads.

Then there's the usual stuff, carb, intake, headers, etc.

Unless you can get a great deal on the engine and/or it already has a bunch of stuff you need, it might be hard to do this on a tight budget.

Steve
 
Reading Mopekid's stuff I'm glad we came at this at two angles so we can find middle ground or compromise. The idea of a roller cam would be awesome, I'm still a little confused on definition but I think we saying the same thing... I always understood that the call of mechanical, hydraluic, roller was a defintion of the tappet and the cam's profile would follow suite. The appeal of rollers is the fact you can have great lifts without the need for long duration. Since the mopar's lifter already have large diameters, this is less important in more of a street set-up.
Next, I would agree that a carb would be easier, but I wouldn't spend the money to switch a system over. I would spend the money to tune a fuel injected unit over the money for an intake and carb so I could tune it. I have a Megasquirt II setup at the moment, this is all down to personal choice and planning while you buy things. For example, if I got an entire magnum engine I would plan for this, where if all I got were the heads I would lean towards carb.
I have to diagree with your idea about having to fight with pistons and chambers. (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0810phr_chrysler_318_engine/assembly.html) This website is a good place to start on reading about a magnum head conversion and it's benefits. Like metioned above they are great pieces, better push rod set-up and tighter chambers (less volume) but are prone to cracking. Hence the Engine Quest is your answer to buy new, which I wouldn't always suggest for a budget as with good port work you can refurbish old heads well. This leads to the next point, if you are going to used heads #302 or J-heads would be adaquate. Don't forget about the larger valves and bronze guides...
Next I would have to say hyperuretic pistons to improve your compression ratio is important along with balancing. Rods are your own call, I've yet to see someone blow up slant rods so I don't have a lot to tell you there. The other side I've dealt with is stroker kits so that means high dollar. My point with strokers is that making more cubes is awesome and all, but if your heads don't flow than your choking your engine anyways. Also, I have to say for the money I would go with Indy heads over the any of Mopar's stuff ie W2.
 
to clear up a couple of things...

B&M makes a SFI flexplate for the 5.9 magnums
professional products make a sfi or street balancer that will work on the 5.9 magnums also..that balancer actually fits 4 small blocks combo..
 
You're probably right about the FI setup then, I don't have any experience working with them. When talking about the chambers and pistons, you aren't really taking full advantage of closed chambers if you don't have pistons that come within .050" or so of the head at TDC. If you do this, say with a 360, you can run 10.5:1 compression on lower-octane pump gas because of the squish (even more if you round off the edges in the chambers). You can run regular pistons, but without that squish you'd have to run the usual 9.5:1 or so ratio to run on pump gas.
 
For sheer ease and cost, the done 360 and known transmission are a good deal. The 360 will beat any identically built 340 on the street, and most will on the strip too. In regard to later mopar LA v-8s, the hydraulic roller cam was in the 318 in the fuel injected Imperials in 1987 and all 318s for 88, and in the 360s starting in '89 as I recall. There is no "good" or "bad" year 360s. In terms of truth, the truth is, even with the 340 cylinder cores used, the poor casting labor ended up with core shift so bad the extra thickness means nothing.
 
Of course there is better years than others for blocks. Up to a point either 68 or 72 Mopar's bean counters started pulling out nickel to help reduce costs. What I suppose you mean with the 340 comment is that a lower power 340 and 360 will be comprable which I believe. But I wouldn't dare dream putting the 340 and 360 on the same plane. There's more than size there's bearings sizes for spinning it better, and bore to stroke relationships that outweigh the truck 360. I think it will be great to take what we have talked about and start to make a plan. That way you can start to piece together things, one thing I would avoid is buying the cam till last though....
 
myasylum said:
I am, going with a V-8 this summer, and I would like some ideas of what to do? I know everyone has a different opinion and that’s o.k. I'm just looking for ideas. I guy I know is trying to get me to go with a 440, too him anything less than a big block is a waste of time. Well, I just really don't want to. Don't ask why, I just don't. I want a 340, but they seem hard to find, so I was going to go with a 360. Is there any year I should look for? I am on a budget so I can't go for a complete rebuild. Also, I’d need a tranny. a 727?? I'd like to stick in a small stall converter. Also I'd need a rear end. What would I look for, for a rear end? I already have disk brakes which is nice.

I found a nice used 360 that had 10,000 miles on it that "looked" killer. Lots of chrome, Aluminum intake, slightly built/ with a tranny for 1,200. He was selling it because he decided to go with a big block. I was really temped to bite, but I thought I'd talk to you experts first. (Not to mention with shipping I doubt it was worth it.) Maybe you can convince me to wait for a 340? I have till Summer really… I need your opions please??

Thanks much guys!
Click to expand...
offer him $1100 and buy it, that's a reat deal for everything.
 
runvs - there is some dimensional differences like the main sizes, and bores, but otherwise, the blocks are virtually the same. Nothing is better, because the casting quality and core shift are so bad. Sonic testing has proved all those to be more myth than fact in terms of "thicker this" or "stronger that". The 340 is a higher revving plant overall with a better crank. That's it. The 360 is a much better street engine if built identically to a 340.
 
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