Who's idea for the 68' Hemi Dart

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dragondan64 said:
My dad raced for Grand Spaulding Dodge along with Norm and others back in the 60's and early 70's and this is a story my dad emailed me the other day and it can shed some light on the issue about the Darts..Enjoy!

The decade of 1960 through 1969 will be illustrated by the 1968 GSS HEMI Dart with a 725 hp 528ci Hemi V8 developed by the Iconic Mr. Norm's of Chicago's Grand Spaulding Dodge fame. Norm Kraus and the Chicago automobile scene have been linked for more than 60 of those 100 years. In 1948 he began his automotive career selling used cars with his brother from a gas station their father Harvey owned, located at the Corner of Grand and Spaulding in Chicago. The famous appellation "Mr Norm" first appeared, due to a space limitation in a newspaper ad selling performance oriented cars. The name stuck and Norm Kraus became "Mr. Norm."
The new Grand Spaulding Dodge showroom and service department was built in 1963. Tying in the performance theme that was established from the onset, the "Mr. Norm's Sport Club" was started and the relationship with youthful performance purchasers was further developed. The first Clayton Chassis Dynamometer was installed in the service department and the dealership began selling "Mr. Norm's" racing apparel. By 1965, Norm teamed up with Gary Dyer and began match racing with a factory altered wheel base Supercharged Hemi Dodge Coronet that changed the course of racing forever, laying the groundwork for what became the professional Funny Car Category.
Mr. Norm developed the first 383 Dart that became the prototype for the factory 383 Dart GTS in 1967. In 1968 Mr. Norm also developed the first 440 Dart GSS that became the prototype for the factory M Code 440 Dart GTS. Mr. Norm also sold the majority of the legendary Hurst/Campbell-built 1968 Hemi Darts. By this time Mr. Norm had well earned the honorary title of the "Hi-Performance King."
Many who grew up in Chicago during the 60's will remember the "Get with the Go Group" jingle on WLS radio, the many "Mr. Norm's" Sport Club social/dances with The Buckinghams as feature music group took place at the dealership, hot summer nights spent hanging out in the Grand Spaulding Dodge dyno bay on South side of Chicago at 3300 West Grand Avenue.
If you are too young to have been in the bleachers to watch the Mr. Norm's Super Charger dominate the factory backed Ramchargers on their home turf at Ubly Dragway in Michigan, you may have still witnessed many "Mr. Norm's" vehicles crashing through Dixie Square Mall or piled up at the intersection of Illinois Routes 12 & 176, in Wauconda, IL in the film the "Blues Brothers". Grand Spaulding Dodge fleet department became so large in 1975 that it supplied many of the Chicago Police Department cars, as well as the Illinois Secretary of State, Department of Transportation and many municipalities. Special orders of police pursuit vehicles equipped with 440 Magnum V8 engines were dyno-tuned for maximum power.
It is particularly fitting that the Mr. Norm's new Hemi GSS Dart has been chosen as the benchmark contribution of the 1960's automotive history at the 100th Anniversary of the Chicago Auto Show. At age 72, Mr. Norm by have already received Hall of Fame Status and at least one Lifetime Achievement Award, but he is hardly content to rest on his laurels. Just like he did in 1968, Mr. Norm is once again revolutionizing the way performance vehicles are created and sold. The vehicle that will be on display is the pre-production prototype of the Limited Edition New GSS Series. These aren't "continuation" or "tribute" cars, this is a new GSS program developed by Mr. Norm and his hand picked team.
Designed to blend the finest 21st century components and technology with classic muscle car style, this is the Hemi Dart that Mr. Norm would have offered in 1968 had the methods and products existed. The Mr. Norm's GSS Hemi Dart exceeds the performance of the original in every category, making it a far superior vehicle. Amongst the notable features is a base 472 cubic-inch HEMI which makes street friendly 610hp on 91 octane pump gas. Each drive-train component, like the transmissions and rear-ends, are dyno tested to withstand up to 850hp to ensure they are able to take to punishment of even the biggest optional Hemi mill. This would be the all-aluminum 572 cubic inch Hemi headed monster which produces a mind bending 825 horsepower, also on everyday 91 unleaded.
Another note worthy aspect of this new GSS is the use of nearly zero body filler. Each of the 40 Limited Edition GSS Darts requires 400 hours of body prep and the use of leading-edge water-jet technology. This process means the body is stripped down to bare metal using a solution treated with a potent rust inhibitor. Each Dart is then painted in sealer, basecoat, intermediate tinted clear, final clearcoat layers, and then baked at 150 degrees for thirty minutes. Once final assembly is complete, each GSS is dyno-tuned, road tested and dialed in so its owner can enjoy hassle free performance. On the day of delivery, Mr. Norm himself will show up and present your new GSS. The customer is still king.

The 1968 GSS HEMI Dart being featured at the 100th Chicago Auto Show signals the return of the Hi-Performance King. The New GSS Dart itself marks the beginning of an entire line of classic GSS Performance Vehicles. Mr. Norm has also teamed up with noted custom vehicle designer Larry Weiner of Performance West Group and respected collectable automobile marketer Patrick Krook of Show Your Auto LLC to offer a limited edition series of 2008 Mr. Norm's Hemi Ram 1500 Super Trucks. The Super Truck promises to be the first of many modern Mr. Norm's Super Cars.
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:coffee2:
some good info on here, but, you`all are forgetting the 426 street hemi`s were refactored by the nhra to 525 horsepower., a long time ago. a race hemi had much more than that!
 
December 1967

NHRA had a meeting in Detroit with the 'Big 3' to discuss the upcoming NHRA Classes for 1968.
The Super/Stock Division was the main focus.

A 'new' SS/A Class was put on the table, with cars under 6.00 Wt/HP {0.00 to 5.99}.

Chevrolet quickly laid out paperwork for their entry. 1968 Chevrolet Corvette, with an 'All-Aluminum'
427 rated at 560 HP. The 68' Corvette was to weigh in at #3100 lbs. It would come in with a weight
break of 5.53 Wt/Hp. Both 4-Speed's and Automatic cars would be built.

The NHRA proposed an E.T. Index of 10.60 for SS/A, and 10.90 for SS/AA, and to be instituted at
the 1968 NHRA Winternationals at Pomona. NHRA mandated that a 'minimum' of 50 cars would have
to be built 'and sold' to qualify the cars for 'legal' Super Stock.

But in early-January 1968, Chevrolet told the NHRA that they would not be able to have enough cars ready
for the Winternationals, and it was determined that the cars would be ready to be showcased at the
'next' NHRA Major Event > the Springnationals at Englishtown in June 1968.

The 'All-Aluminum' 427 Corvette was to have >
* Domed Hood
* 12.5-1 TRW Pistons
* Closed Chamber Cylinder Heads
* 'Mechanical' Camshaft > .562"/.584 Lift ~ 332*/333* Duration ~ 133* Overlap
* Aluminum Dual-Plane High-Rise Intake
* A 'special' Holley 950 CFM Carburetor with 1 3/4" Throttle Bores. {Later changed to a Holley 850 Double-Pumper}
* 'Kustom' Headers

The 1968 Corvette 'proto-type' was an Automatic with 4.88 Gears and 9" Slicks, and with a Holley 850 CFM
Double-Pumper.

That car ran 10.90's @ 132 MPH in early testing.

Cost .......... $10,773
 
Edge,

1967 NHRA Super Stock Classes
* SS/A ......... 0.00 to 6.99 Wt/HP
* SS/B ......... 7.00 to 7.69 Wt/HP
* SS/C ......... 7.70 to 8.69 Wt/HP
* SS/D ......... 8.70 to 9.49 Wt/HP
* SS/E ......... 9.50 and up Wt/HP

For 1968, the NHRA changed it up a bit

1968 NHRA Super Stock Classes
* SS/A ........ 0.00 to 5.99 Wt/HP
* SS/B ........ 6.00 to 6.99 Wt/HP
* SS/C ........ 7.00 to 7.69 Wt/HP
* SS/D ........ 7.70 to 8.69 Wt/HP
* SS/E ........ 8.70 to 9.49 Wt/HP
* SS/F ........ 9.50 and up Wt/HP

SS/A was reserved for 'future' cars.
* 1968 Corvette 427/560 HP ~ 'All-Aluminum ZL-1'
* 1968 Mustang GT 427/600 HP ~ 'SOHC Cammer'
 
Super Stock and FX Magazine {February 1969}

Featured > Charlie Castaldo and his 1968 SS/B Dart.

Charlie picked up his 1968 Race Hemi Dart at Highland Park, with a Racer Cost Price of >

$4800

$T2eC16hHJGwE9n)yVT4BBQw5PgBiOw~~60_57.JPG
 
tekslk said:
Didnt Mr Norm have to goose them a little, I though chrysler couldnt do it till Norm showed them it could be done. Just here say.
Click to expand...
Your thinking of the darts & cudas that came with 383s & 440s. Mr. Norm was the first to put a 383 in a 67 dart.
 
As per the NHRA {January 1968} ~ Super Stock Class Designations

SS/A
* 1968 Corvette ~ 427/560 HP ~ 'Aluminum ZL-1 ..... To be built
* 1968 Mustang GT ~ 427/600 HP ~ 'SOHC' .............. To be built

SS/B
* 1968 Barracuda ~ '426 Race Hemi' ........................ To be built
* 1968 Dart ~ '426 Race Hemi' ................................. To be built
* 1965 Belvedere ~ '426 Race Hemi'
* 1965 Coronet ~ '426 Race Hemi'
* 1964 Belvedere '~ 426 Race Hemi' ~ {Aluminum Nose Body}
* 1964 Coronet ~ '426 Race Hemi' ~ {Aluminum Nose Body}

SS/C
* 1968 Road Runner 'Coupe' ~ '426 Street Hemi'
* 1967 Belvedere II {RO-23} ~ '426 Street Hemi'
* 1967 Coronet 'Model 440' {WO-23} ~ '426 Street Hemi'
* 1967 Camaro ~ 396/375 HP
* 1968 Camaro ~ 396/375 HP
* 1967 Corvette ~ 427/430 HP ~ 'L-88'
* 1968 Corvette ~ 427/430 HP ~ 'L-88'
* 1967 Fairlane ~ 427/425 HP
* 1967 Cyclone ~ 427/425 HP
 
Getting the weight down.

What Engineer; Bob Tarozzi had to do.

The Barracuda 'Fastback' weighed in at;
* 383 .......... #3249 lbs.
* 440 .......... #3279 lbs.
* 426 Hemi .. #3350 lbs.

With a 426 Hemi, the Barracuda would hit the scales at #3350 lbs. Bob Tarozzi had to cut #300 lbs.
out of the Barracuda 'Test Mule' to reach the 'Goal Weight' of #3050 lbs.

And this had to be done without using the 426 Race Hemi Aluminum Cylinder Heads.
 
If you look at the "mule car" closely you'll see the seats are fibreglass mounted on tube steel, the offset block for the MC was made of wood & IIRC the backseat was gone, anticipating the finished cars would have a divider/rollcage installed when completed. The Authentication Guide has a list of parts that were used in these cars to make 'em & unfortunately alot (most) of those parts are unavailible. The good news though was that if you're creeative & diligent enough alot of the parts were "baseline" pieces for other vehicles.
 
A friend of mine Johnny Burge of Mobile AL wrecked one of the original Darts street racing it in 79 or 80. I think it was the only black car of the batch

11-12 years ago he built a clone to it using all original S/S Mopar parts from all the other cars & was dubbed to be more correct than any of the originals left
It was in Mopar Collectors Guide 10-12 years ago
Johnny's car has parts on it that are the only surviving original parts for them like the outside mirror block off plate that was the first thing that got thrown away when the racers tweaked the cars when they got them
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
H-Cop, I believe they were Porsche Racing Seats for the Test Mule.
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You're 100% correct! Pat McGroder here in Phx had the "mule car" in his collection for awhile & I got to crawl around it. His crew showed me all the R&D paperwork & photos that went into that car & it was amazing! It wasn't just a couple of hotrodders trying to stuff a big engine into a small car--they took EVERYTHING into consideration. No wonder it was so successful!
 
hemicop said:
You're 100% correct! Pat McGroder here in Phx had the "mule car" in his collection for awhile & I got to crawl around it. His crew showed me all the R&D paperwork & photos that went into that car & it was amazing! It wasn't just a couple of hotrodders trying to stuff a big engine into a small car--they took EVERYTHING into consideration. No wonder it was so successful!
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The Porsche Fiberglass Racing Seats were utilized for testing when the Test Mule was
in Los Angeles, for the tests out at Irwindale Raceway.

The NHRA would not approve 'after-market seats' for the Super/Stock Class. They were
later changed for the Dodge A-100 Van Seats.
 
I agree very interesting read. I understand the origin of these cars better, particularly how they wound up with the nasty butchered rear quarters and a cheap ugly scoop. I'm not disrepecting the cars, in fact I think its very cool how they just did what was necessary to bring them to production.
 
A > The Test Mule was originally a 1967 Barracuda 383-S, Automatic.

B > The Porsche Fiberglass Seats were utilized on the Test Mule 'only'.

C > The seats were mounted on plywood box-frames, and covered with floor carpeting.

D > The NHRA said 'NO' to these seats.

2794367514_7ed0d62521_b.jpg
 
Here is the cost of my Hemi Dart from Mr. Norms.:D
 

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69 Cuda 440 said:
A > The Test Mule was originally a 1967 Barracuda 383-S, Automatic.

....
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Where did you get that information?

Legend,lore and I think the 68 magazines reporting on the mule say it was a 67.

In talking with Bob Tarozzi directly about the year of the mule, it was a 68 Barracuda from the pool of 68 test cars. There is a formal name of that group of cars but I can't remember it. The test car was received well into the 68 model year, negating the chance of a spillover 67.

In looking at that interior picture of the mule, everything points to it being a 68 and nothing pointing toward it being a 67. 68 deluxe door panels, 68 one year only dash frame with lower pad removed, 68 door arm rests, 68 steering wheel and horn pad, 68 dash pad, 68 door window vents, 68 glove compartment box door. And of course all 68 exterior trim.

I think what throws people is that there is no lower dash pad on the mule. So they assume it's a 67. But that actually makes the case for it being a 68 even stronger as you can see the holes and stamping unique for a 68 only dash frame. Most (not all) 68 Hemi Super Stock collectors are not A-body people that know the nuances of A-bodies. And most were not physically hands on restored by their current owners.
 
Test Mule,

Lots of misinformation thrown about.

Several reports were that it was 1967 383 from one of the Chrysler Executives that had about 6000 Miles on it.

Check out the Fiberglass Front Fender, less side-light holes.

 
autoxcuda said:
Where did you get that information?

Legend,lore and I think the 68 magazines reporting on the mule say it was a 67.

In talking with Bob Tarozzi directly about the year of the mule, it was a 68 Barracuda from the pool of 68 test cars. There is a formal name of that group of cars but I can't remember it. The test car was received well into the 68 model year, negating the chance of a spillover 67.

In looking at that interior picture of the mule, everything points to it being a 68 and nothing pointing toward it being a 67. 68 deluxe door panels, 68 one year only dash frame with lower pad removed, 68 door arm rests, 68 steering wheel and horn pad, 68 dash pad, 68 door window vents, 68 glove compartment box door. And of course all 68 exterior trim.

I think what throws people is that there is no lower dash pad on the mule. So they assume it's a 67. But that actually makes the case for it being a 68 even stronger as you can see the holes and stamping unique for a 68 only dash frame. Most (not all) 68 Hemi Super Stock collectors are not A-body people that know the nuances of A-bodies. And most were not physically hands on restored by their current owners.
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Could it have been a "Pilot" car?
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Test Mule,

Lots of misinformation thrown about.

Several reports were that it was 1967 383 from one of the Chrysler Executives that had about 6000 Miles on it.

Check out the Fiberglass Front Fender, less side-light holes.

Click to expand...

Those are fiberglass fenders, not production fenders. The delivered 68 cars (Darts and Barracudas) did not have light holes drilled either.

My information comes directly talking one on one with Bob Tarozzi about the mule being a 67 or 68. He was THE person that got the car. I understand there are "reports" of the car being a 67. That's why I asked.

Why would they go through the whole car changing all those 67 details to 68 details? They were understaffed and under a tight timeline.

And why do all the switching around and not put 68 standard door panels on it instead of using heavier 68 Deluxe door panels shown in the picture? And it has the 68 interior decor group with 68 woodgrain wheel, pedal dress up, and wood grain dash applique. Why put that stuff on?
 
ddartdude said:
Could it have been a "Pilot" car?
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Tarozzi said it came from the test pool. Cars used to test the production line and fitments. Not exactly sure how pilots fit in there. Cars were cut up or destroyed by end of model year. These cars might not have even had vins. These car would get cut up to do durability test. Tarozzi mentioned them cutting the window frame and cowl out of a test car to test windshield wipers for some 100K cycles. Other times cutting a door and door frames to open and close doors in a mechanized test rig some 100K cycles.

The cars got flushed out every year. No cars in the test pool you are not currently producing or going to produce is what Tarozzi said.

Heck by mid 1968 they are working to finish up 1969 model launch.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Test Mule,

Lots of misinformation thrown about.

Several reports were that it was 1967 383 from one of the Chrysler Executives that had about 6000 Miles on it.

Check out the Fiberglass Front Fender, less side-light holes.

Click to expand...

Notice when you blow that picture up on classracer the nosecone does not have 67 "Plymouth" emblems across it. Also notice the 3 speed 68 Wiper Motor when they were building the car. NOT the 67 3 speed wiper motor.
 
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