It didn't tame the duration. It increased it.....VERY slightly. But what happened is, it increased the lift much more than the duration, it had a similar effect as decreasing the duration, even though it did not. If that makes sense.
Why is it so hard to get good advice !!???
- Thread starter Kern Dog
- Start date
-
Uhhhh.....
Okay, I guess I interpret it as... The balance of lift to duration has shifted to the point where the proportion is different. I gained lift , and to a lesser degree, some duration....
Some feel that the Mopar cams were short on lift compared to their duration anyway.
Okay, I guess I interpret it as... The balance of lift to duration has shifted to the point where the proportion is different. I gained lift , and to a lesser degree, some duration....
Some feel that the Mopar cams were short on lift compared to their duration anyway.
moper
Well-Known Member
"I interpret it as... The balance of lift to duration has shifted to the point where the proportion is different. I gained lift , and to a lesser degree, some duration...."
Yup - you got it. You gained lift, and some duration at points in the lift cycle - more duration at mid lift than anywhere else.
Yup - you got it. You gained lift, and some duration at points in the lift cycle - more duration at mid lift than anywhere else.
The saga continues.
Just in case some of you are JUST tuning in, THIS engine is the first stroked big block that I have ever had. I've built 3 Mopar big blocks, 5 360s and numerous Chevy small blocks. I understand the basics and can fumble my way through a stock or mild engine build. Over the years I have read a lot and learned a few things, but THIS engine has taken me to a new level.
In 2003 I took a high mileage 440 from a 76 Coronet Police car and bored it .030, added the TRW six pack pistons and these very same Edelbrock aluminum heads. I had the 284/484 MP cam. That car was a screamer with 3.91 gears. Unfortunately it broke the #4 rod at 846 miles. I was pissed and figured that if I was going to build another engine, I was going to use NEW rods. What the heck, why not go with a longer stroke too?
If I were to have the engine apart right this moment, I'd probably use a moderate dished piston to get me into the 9.5 to 9.75 range of compression to allow the use of mid grade fuel if necessary. The milder ratio would also be more forgiving in terms of cam selection. Up until a month ago, I wasn't aware that the camshaft had that much effect on "dynamic" compression. I had heard of the term (Dynamic comp) but since all of my previous builds were so mild, the issue never came up. Now that I have an engine that runs beyond the limits of pump gas, I am forced to learn how to deal with it all.
There have been some great posts and responses here, and I want everyone to trust that I have read through them all several times. I didn't want to be the type of guy that drops off his car at a shop and has all the work done for him. I am interested in improving my skills so that I can avoid similar mistakes in the future.
The specs for the cams on the market can be confusing to me. In the 80s when I first started driving and reading car magazines, all I would hear is LIFT and DURATION. Over the years I've seen split pattern cams, LSA, Intake centerline, Duration @ .006, Duration @ .050, Intake closing point....Maybe all this stuff was out there before but only the hardcore racers had access to the info. Today these numbers are more easily found. The problem is, sometimes TOO much information can make the situation ever harder to understand.
Case in point: MOST that mentioned my need for a bigger cam believe that a later intake closing is a possible fix. Fantastic! Now I just needed to know what the intake closing point of the '509 cam so I could compare it to the new cams. Finding specs like this for the MP 509 wasn't easy. maybe I'd need to physically open a box with THAT cam in it and look for a cam card? The MP catalog leaves that info out. Their website doesn't list the intake closing. Member 273 accessed a dyno program that showed an intake closing of 58 degrees @ .050, and while I appreciate the help, I am curious if it is correct. I just spoke with William at Comp Cams and he said that the Comp copy of the MP '509 had an intake closing of 47 degrees @ .050. He said it was an exact copy, so I'd guess all the specs were carried over? The Comp XE294 is the largest Hydraulic flat tappet cam they offer in the Extreme Energy line. It shows a duration of 250/256 @ .050, a .519/.524 lift with 1.5 rockers ( I have 1.6 rockers, pushing lift to .553/.558) and a 110 centerline. The intake closing is 51 degrees @ .050, 73 degrees @.006.
Some members have mentioned that my .056 quench distance is too wide to be effective. They said a thicker head gasket would NOT hurt quench since I'm already out of the effective range anyway. I tend to believe this for a couple of reasons. 1) The 383 and 440 Magnum used open chambered iron heads with 10.0 compression and ran on premium fuel. ZERO quench in those engines. Mine could have 10.27 with .060 Cometic gaskets or 10.45 with the MUCH cheaper .051 composition gaskets. Either will push the quench distance past .068, which is still less distance than a stock 440 Magnum. 2) I actually did try using .060 Cometic MLS gaskets in 2006 when I ran a Comp 285 cam. The engine ran great but wiped a lobe before the warmer weather came along. Hard to know how it would have ran in 100 degree temps.
For now I am leaning toward the Comp XE294 cam and a pair of the .051 gaskets. Sorta like I did before, but this time a bigger cam and a thicker head gasket that isn't quite as thick as the Cometics....
I'll surely report back with the results. Thanks everyone!
Just in case some of you are JUST tuning in, THIS engine is the first stroked big block that I have ever had. I've built 3 Mopar big blocks, 5 360s and numerous Chevy small blocks. I understand the basics and can fumble my way through a stock or mild engine build. Over the years I have read a lot and learned a few things, but THIS engine has taken me to a new level.
In 2003 I took a high mileage 440 from a 76 Coronet Police car and bored it .030, added the TRW six pack pistons and these very same Edelbrock aluminum heads. I had the 284/484 MP cam. That car was a screamer with 3.91 gears. Unfortunately it broke the #4 rod at 846 miles. I was pissed and figured that if I was going to build another engine, I was going to use NEW rods. What the heck, why not go with a longer stroke too?
If I were to have the engine apart right this moment, I'd probably use a moderate dished piston to get me into the 9.5 to 9.75 range of compression to allow the use of mid grade fuel if necessary. The milder ratio would also be more forgiving in terms of cam selection. Up until a month ago, I wasn't aware that the camshaft had that much effect on "dynamic" compression. I had heard of the term (Dynamic comp) but since all of my previous builds were so mild, the issue never came up. Now that I have an engine that runs beyond the limits of pump gas, I am forced to learn how to deal with it all.
There have been some great posts and responses here, and I want everyone to trust that I have read through them all several times. I didn't want to be the type of guy that drops off his car at a shop and has all the work done for him. I am interested in improving my skills so that I can avoid similar mistakes in the future.
The specs for the cams on the market can be confusing to me. In the 80s when I first started driving and reading car magazines, all I would hear is LIFT and DURATION. Over the years I've seen split pattern cams, LSA, Intake centerline, Duration @ .006, Duration @ .050, Intake closing point....Maybe all this stuff was out there before but only the hardcore racers had access to the info. Today these numbers are more easily found. The problem is, sometimes TOO much information can make the situation ever harder to understand.
Case in point: MOST that mentioned my need for a bigger cam believe that a later intake closing is a possible fix. Fantastic! Now I just needed to know what the intake closing point of the '509 cam so I could compare it to the new cams. Finding specs like this for the MP 509 wasn't easy. maybe I'd need to physically open a box with THAT cam in it and look for a cam card? The MP catalog leaves that info out. Their website doesn't list the intake closing. Member 273 accessed a dyno program that showed an intake closing of 58 degrees @ .050, and while I appreciate the help, I am curious if it is correct. I just spoke with William at Comp Cams and he said that the Comp copy of the MP '509 had an intake closing of 47 degrees @ .050. He said it was an exact copy, so I'd guess all the specs were carried over? The Comp XE294 is the largest Hydraulic flat tappet cam they offer in the Extreme Energy line. It shows a duration of 250/256 @ .050, a .519/.524 lift with 1.5 rockers ( I have 1.6 rockers, pushing lift to .553/.558) and a 110 centerline. The intake closing is 51 degrees @ .050, 73 degrees @.006.
Some members have mentioned that my .056 quench distance is too wide to be effective. They said a thicker head gasket would NOT hurt quench since I'm already out of the effective range anyway. I tend to believe this for a couple of reasons. 1) The 383 and 440 Magnum used open chambered iron heads with 10.0 compression and ran on premium fuel. ZERO quench in those engines. Mine could have 10.27 with .060 Cometic gaskets or 10.45 with the MUCH cheaper .051 composition gaskets. Either will push the quench distance past .068, which is still less distance than a stock 440 Magnum. 2) I actually did try using .060 Cometic MLS gaskets in 2006 when I ran a Comp 285 cam. The engine ran great but wiped a lobe before the warmer weather came along. Hard to know how it would have ran in 100 degree temps.
For now I am leaning toward the Comp XE294 cam and a pair of the .051 gaskets. Sorta like I did before, but this time a bigger cam and a thicker head gasket that isn't quite as thick as the Cometics....
I'll surely report back with the results. Thanks everyone!
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
First off my Challenger was .056 "quench" and 11.12 to 1 static and 8.5ish dynamic and raced on local 93 at track (no mixing) Iron block and aluminum heads... Felpro .039 HG I used.
Don't mind the kid in the video first time I took him for ride as he showed up at my garage one day and always wanted to help.. :glasses7:
comp XR286R cam - Indy MW CNC EZ's - Max Wedge Intake - Dominator carb, you know all the stuff that isnt "streetable"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz-szQ1yrgY"]Dodge Challenger 500" N/A Pump Gas - YouTube[/ame]
yes
As far as your factory numbers gas was different back then right? I would rather have 11.5 compression with .056"quench" than 10.5 to 1 compression with .070 "quench"
Throwing on a thick head gasket to bring compression down to keep pump gas friendly is not the answer IMO... Also solid roller cams are easier to get the higher intake valve closing. Do I believe at some point "quench" effectiveness goes away? sure dunno what the magic numbers are though...
as moper said....... cam change. lots recommend Dwayne Porter for that
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
This video is when I had 269/269 @ 50 bullet roller cam in there with 540 cubes. Was just seeing how low I could get it to idle (I don't run roller cam stuff that low just playing around).... man look at that fuel ratio idleing, not bad for a 1 barrel carb :glasses7:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74cnr_Xjl4"]Pro Systems SV1 - Pump Gas 540 - YouTube[/ame]
That video was great! Taking a kid for a ride in a hot car will leave them with a lasting impression for life!
Regarding Mr Porter, I tried but was unable to pin him down on any specific cam. He kept steering me towards tuning the ignition curve. He also suggested to zero deck the block and have the pistons modified by milling a .040 step on the valve side. Great idea, but I don't want to pull the engine right now.
RustyRatRod actually suggested a Lunati Solid flat tappet Part# 30210912 called the 316/326. It specs out at 261/271 @ .050, 540/563 lift minus a .020 lash. My 1.6 rockers take it to a net lift of 554/578. It looks pretty rowdy. I called Lunati and their guy seemed to think it would be too much. I mentioned that it was for a 500 inch (493, close enough) engine but he had no comment about the fact that a 500 inch engine needs more cam than a 383-440. What is the downside of a cam this big in a 493 engine? I lose a bit of bottom end?
Again, that video was great. Your screen name is appropriate!
I wonder what his reaction would have been had you told him I was putting that same grind in a stock stroke 383? I actually think that cam is right on the mark or even a hair mild, especially the lift. But you needed that.
It would be great to have to spend more on tires than octane booster!
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
When you look at cam specs most people look at duration and lift and rpm power range and that's what mail order catalogs show also.... Those cams listed for "440's" are for 440s ... With a stroker engine bring that power range down a few hunded on both sides... Big cubes eats up duration. I left that xr286r comp roller in across ported 906s to MW ported Indy EZs... Probably to large to to small 
My cam right now in the dart is a 283/292 duration on pump gas.
My cam right now in the dart is a 283/292 duration on pump gas.
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
....
Good news... The "FIX" is on its way!
I ordered the cam, lifters, springs and a bottle of Comps break in lube today. It looks like it take until next weekend to get it all. Of course, I'll have to measure for pushrods again. Hopefully the ONE speed shop in town will have the right length in stock. Otherwisw, it is a 4 hour round trip from home to the Summit racing store in Reno/Sparks Nevada.
I ordered the cam, lifters, springs and a bottle of Comps break in lube today. It looks like it take until next weekend to get it all. Of course, I'll have to measure for pushrods again. Hopefully the ONE speed shop in town will have the right length in stock. Otherwisw, it is a 4 hour round trip from home to the Summit racing store in Reno/Sparks Nevada.
Neato. Which cam did you end up going with?
I went with YOUR suggestion!
The 316/326 looks to be a real animal too. The kift will come in just under the .600 limit after the .022 lash is deducted.
261/271 duration @ .050. .554/.578 after lash using my 1.6 rockers. I'm curious if I'll need to UPsize my exhaust to compensate!
I am giddy with anticipation. I ordered those trick EDM lifters to keep pressurized oil to the cam lobes. That ought to buy some insurance against cam failure, right? FBBO member IQ52 has given me a quote for head porting that is quite tempting. I told him I'd probably wait until the winter since I didn't want to have the car sit for 3 weeks in the summer. I've been selling some parts and cars to support this whole thing. If I can sell that 68 Satellite wagon I have on craigslist, I may call him and get the porting done much sooner.
I ordered new valvesprings too. Mine are original to the heads that I've had since 2003, though I have less than 5000 miles on them in that time. Keep in mind that these springs have seen 846 miles with a MP 284/484 cam, about 500 miles with 2 different 285 Comp cams and the rest with the '509 cam. With all of those relatively low lift camshafts, I doubt that they are beyond their service life. I figure that for less than $100, it is cheap insurance.
For quite awhile, I wasn't overly impressed with the power of the car, but I figured that it was good enough.
I am really anxious to see how it runs once these changes are done.
The 316/326 looks to be a real animal too. The kift will come in just under the .600 limit after the .022 lash is deducted.
261/271 duration @ .050. .554/.578 after lash using my 1.6 rockers. I'm curious if I'll need to UPsize my exhaust to compensate!
I am giddy with anticipation. I ordered those trick EDM lifters to keep pressurized oil to the cam lobes. That ought to buy some insurance against cam failure, right? FBBO member IQ52 has given me a quote for head porting that is quite tempting. I told him I'd probably wait until the winter since I didn't want to have the car sit for 3 weeks in the summer. I've been selling some parts and cars to support this whole thing. If I can sell that 68 Satellite wagon I have on craigslist, I may call him and get the porting done much sooner.
I ordered new valvesprings too. Mine are original to the heads that I've had since 2003, though I have less than 5000 miles on them in that time. Keep in mind that these springs have seen 846 miles with a MP 284/484 cam, about 500 miles with 2 different 285 Comp cams and the rest with the '509 cam. With all of those relatively low lift camshafts, I doubt that they are beyond their service life. I figure that for less than $100, it is cheap insurance.
For quite awhile, I wasn't overly impressed with the power of the car, but I figured that it was good enough.
I am really anxious to see how it runs once these changes are done.
I've had most of the parts here but have been slow to jump in. I stepped away for awhile to do body and paint on a 74 Duster 360. While the paint hardens up enough to cut and buff, I'm getting back to this project.
Today I bought a degree kit from a local speed shop. I'll have to hog out the hole in the center of the degree wheel to allow the bigger Mopar balancer bolt to pass through. The kit came with a piston stop, light checking valve springs, a dial indicator and the mounting contraption.
Today I bought a degree kit from a local speed shop. I'll have to hog out the hole in the center of the degree wheel to allow the bigger Mopar balancer bolt to pass through. The kit came with a piston stop, light checking valve springs, a dial indicator and the mounting contraption.
The EDM lifters are different. Check out the deep recessed section in the middle. If you look closely at the second picture, you can see the tiny oil hole in the recess. This hole passes through the lifter body and exits at the base, squirting a stream of oil directly to the cam lobes.
With the history of cam failures, wouldn't you think they'd include a bigger supply of cam lube??
Yeah....I'm going to buy more.
Yeah....I'm going to buy more.
************** UPDATE ************ UPDATE **************
Plenty of progress and much of it is due to the help of some members here and elsewhere. RustyRatRod has been a great asset and has provided some help where I needed it.
The Lunati cam felt tight in the block. Even with a cam sprocket on it, I couldn't spin the cam by hand. I needed a ratchet or a breaker bar to rotate just the cam itself. I read and researched about it. Apparantly Mopar big blocks often have this problem. Several "fixes" were out there. I could have polished the cam journals, I could have removed the engine and had new cam bearings put in...I went with a method that was similar to what was done when these engines were new. I "cut" the bearings with them in the block. My machinist showed me an old BB cam with grooves cut into the journals. At home, I did the same but put axle grease in the grooves to collect the shavings. After spinning the cutter cam in the block a few times, I pulled it, cleaned it up, regreased it and put it in again. Now the cam spins like it should.
Degreeing was a pisser at first. I bent the piston stop twice because turning the engine over was so difficult, I couldn't tell when I was hitting the stop. After removing the spark plugs, it was easier to spin the engine and feel it when I touched the piston stop. I came up with a 110 number. The cam is listed as having a 108 LSA with an installed centerline of 106. I guess that means that I am 4 degrees retarded. Tomorrow I'll switch the crank gear to the 4 degree ADV setting and recheck the numbers.
Plenty of progress and much of it is due to the help of some members here and elsewhere. RustyRatRod has been a great asset and has provided some help where I needed it.
The Lunati cam felt tight in the block. Even with a cam sprocket on it, I couldn't spin the cam by hand. I needed a ratchet or a breaker bar to rotate just the cam itself. I read and researched about it. Apparantly Mopar big blocks often have this problem. Several "fixes" were out there. I could have polished the cam journals, I could have removed the engine and had new cam bearings put in...I went with a method that was similar to what was done when these engines were new. I "cut" the bearings with them in the block. My machinist showed me an old BB cam with grooves cut into the journals. At home, I did the same but put axle grease in the grooves to collect the shavings. After spinning the cutter cam in the block a few times, I pulled it, cleaned it up, regreased it and put it in again. Now the cam spins like it should.
Degreeing was a pisser at first. I bent the piston stop twice because turning the engine over was so difficult, I couldn't tell when I was hitting the stop. After removing the spark plugs, it was easier to spin the engine and feel it when I touched the piston stop. I came up with a 110 number. The cam is listed as having a 108 LSA with an installed centerline of 106. I guess that means that I am 4 degrees retarded. Tomorrow I'll switch the crank gear to the 4 degree ADV setting and recheck the numbers.
moper
Well-Known Member
Good call on the plug pulling - that's how you're supposed to do it...lol.
On the cam bearings - because you did it that way you will want to pay very close attention to your oil pressure to make sure nothing changes. If you note it changing it can be a sign of crap getting into the bearings from the cam bearing trimming. Those oil passages feed the mains and then teh rods - so you introduced bearing material in the middle of the oil system. As long as it embeds or pushes through - no big deal. I have found shavings in the oil pickups and in the oil fitlers in the past - so like any other cam swap - change the break in oil at a much shorter duration. Lastly - the cam lube doesn't need to be a lot. It's going to combine with the oil anyway and too much of the moly lube can plug an oil filter. If you want insurance get a bottle of the zink additive.
On the cam bearings - because you did it that way you will want to pay very close attention to your oil pressure to make sure nothing changes. If you note it changing it can be a sign of crap getting into the bearings from the cam bearing trimming. Those oil passages feed the mains and then teh rods - so you introduced bearing material in the middle of the oil system. As long as it embeds or pushes through - no big deal. I have found shavings in the oil pickups and in the oil fitlers in the past - so like any other cam swap - change the break in oil at a much shorter duration. Lastly - the cam lube doesn't need to be a lot. It's going to combine with the oil anyway and too much of the moly lube can plug an oil filter. If you want insurance get a bottle of the zink additive.
Thanks, Moper.
This experience has been fraught with all sorts of hurdles. The crank hub I've been using doesn't stay in position when going from a clockwise rotation to a CCW direction. It slips about 2 degrees. The hub has 3 slots in it, presumably to fit 3 different engines? Anyhow, I'm using the narrowest slot but it still has a bit of a loose fit on the Woodruff key. I've tightened the allen set screw to the point where I am worried I'll snap the Allen wrench but the hub still backs off about 2 degrees when I reverse my rotation. I cant just say... "okay, I'm off by 2 degrees so I'll just deduct that number..." THAT is a half assed way of dealing with it. The allen screw has a flat end so it hasn't damaged the crank snout. It may have slipped partly because for most of the process, I was cranking the engine with the spark plugs in and the rocker arms in place. That made the engine very hard to turn over. Because of this, I've bent 2 piston stops. The engine had such resistance while turning, I couldn't feel it when the piston hit the stop. Adding to that, the piston stop is a 3/8 rod threaded into a 14 mm insert. It is also in on an angle. Its not hard to bend a thin rod on an angle when rotating the engine with a torque wrench.
See what I mean? Obstacle after hurdle after misstep!
The 110 centerline told me that the cam was 4 degrees retarded, so I pulled the crank sprocket and moved it to the 4 degree advanced spot. With the hub back on and still slipping, I pulled it and decided to attach the degree wheel with the crank dampner bolt. I degreed it and came up with a 103 number. Huh? How could the 4 degree ADV position make a 7 degree difference? I just HAD to verify TDC to make sure I wasn't starting from a bogus number. Well, I bent the piston stop again, so I walked away pissed off.
I ordered a solid brass piston stop from Summit racing. Its from Crane cams and has a hole in the middle to allow compression to escape. This one is sturdy and isn't likely to bend.
I checked piston to valve clearance at 15 degrees before TDC, at TDC and 15 degrees after TDC and was surprised to find I had over .200 of clearance! I read somewhere that some cam companies call for a .120 minimum.
Those Lunati lifters with the barbell design worried me. I called Lunati directly and talked with their tech guy. He said that in some cases, the open area could drop below the lifter boss or rise above it, causing a loss of oil pressure. This was dependant on the amount of core shift in the block. I wasn't interested in risking anything like that, so I returned them to the Summit store and bought a set of the Howards Direct oiling lifters. Same principal, but with a conventional oil band.
I had to pull away to work on other things, but I hope to return to the car this weekend.
This experience has been fraught with all sorts of hurdles. The crank hub I've been using doesn't stay in position when going from a clockwise rotation to a CCW direction. It slips about 2 degrees. The hub has 3 slots in it, presumably to fit 3 different engines? Anyhow, I'm using the narrowest slot but it still has a bit of a loose fit on the Woodruff key. I've tightened the allen set screw to the point where I am worried I'll snap the Allen wrench but the hub still backs off about 2 degrees when I reverse my rotation. I cant just say... "okay, I'm off by 2 degrees so I'll just deduct that number..." THAT is a half assed way of dealing with it. The allen screw has a flat end so it hasn't damaged the crank snout. It may have slipped partly because for most of the process, I was cranking the engine with the spark plugs in and the rocker arms in place. That made the engine very hard to turn over. Because of this, I've bent 2 piston stops. The engine had such resistance while turning, I couldn't feel it when the piston hit the stop. Adding to that, the piston stop is a 3/8 rod threaded into a 14 mm insert. It is also in on an angle. Its not hard to bend a thin rod on an angle when rotating the engine with a torque wrench.
See what I mean? Obstacle after hurdle after misstep!
The 110 centerline told me that the cam was 4 degrees retarded, so I pulled the crank sprocket and moved it to the 4 degree advanced spot. With the hub back on and still slipping, I pulled it and decided to attach the degree wheel with the crank dampner bolt. I degreed it and came up with a 103 number. Huh? How could the 4 degree ADV position make a 7 degree difference? I just HAD to verify TDC to make sure I wasn't starting from a bogus number. Well, I bent the piston stop again, so I walked away pissed off.
I ordered a solid brass piston stop from Summit racing. Its from Crane cams and has a hole in the middle to allow compression to escape. This one is sturdy and isn't likely to bend.
I checked piston to valve clearance at 15 degrees before TDC, at TDC and 15 degrees after TDC and was surprised to find I had over .200 of clearance! I read somewhere that some cam companies call for a .120 minimum.
Those Lunati lifters with the barbell design worried me. I called Lunati directly and talked with their tech guy. He said that in some cases, the open area could drop below the lifter boss or rise above it, causing a loss of oil pressure. This was dependant on the amount of core shift in the block. I wasn't interested in risking anything like that, so I returned them to the Summit store and bought a set of the Howards Direct oiling lifters. Same principal, but with a conventional oil band.
I had to pull away to work on other things, but I hope to return to the car this weekend.
R.R.R ,knows his stuff. Stroker crankshafts,eat up big camshafts. First Wedge I rode in,a Max Wedge prepped 440,crossram setup. Similar cam specs,from Crane .I considered it streetable.(shift point,6800-7000).
moper
Well-Known Member
You're getting there Franken... Something to always remember: the engine is a combination of mechanical systems that have to work together. So when you're working on degreeing, the cylinders will fight you if they still capture pressure. It's like replacing the starter. The headers have nothing to do with it, and you can possibly fight your way around them, but in 10 minutes you can have the header unbolted and out of the way. Before you start doing something think about what you're working on, and what might be working against you to do it, and how easy it might be to address that.
If the degree whell is moving you will get all kinds of errors. My wheel is older and bolts on using a bushing and the crank bolt and I put it on with an impact wrench...lol.
Lastly - the cam turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank.
If you move the cam gear 4° you changed the cam's installed centerline by 4°.
If you move the crank gear 4° you only moved the cam 2°. If indeed you need 4° at the cam, you have to move the crank gear 8°.
In the case of your moving the crank gear 4°, it should degree out to 108°. So you were close. I go through the steps 3 times to make sure my result is right and repeats. If you are within 1° I would not worry about it.
If the degree whell is moving you will get all kinds of errors. My wheel is older and bolts on using a bushing and the crank bolt and I put it on with an impact wrench...lol.
Lastly - the cam turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank.
If you move the cam gear 4° you changed the cam's installed centerline by 4°.
If you move the crank gear 4° you only moved the cam 2°. If indeed you need 4° at the cam, you have to move the crank gear 8°.
In the case of your moving the crank gear 4°, it should degree out to 108°. So you were close. I go through the steps 3 times to make sure my result is right and repeats. If you are within 1° I would not worry about it.
1 degree. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Too close to bother with any additional work, thanks.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
The 9 way crank sprocket on my timing set would'nt land where I wanted it no matter what configuration I tried. So I just ended up getting an offset bushing for the cam sprocket anyway. I feel your pain....
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