225 Long Rod Build Thread

[Charrlie_S]

I was going to build a "long rod" engine. But wound up getting this car/engine from a member here, last month. This is a link to some build pictures.

Engine build pics

Just went through some pictures and figured I would post up some shots of my engine going together. Right now it's still on the stand, I need to get the engine compartment painted before I drop it back in.

www.forabodiesonly.com

 

[Cruisingram]

Long time no post guys! Been building my shop. Going to order parts for my 225. I have two heads- one I bought off a guy on this site, been milled a bit. The other, stock, still on it. I really like this idea of the long rod 2.2 build, got my oregon cams already too. I have already hogged out my exhaust to 2.5 inches, this is a pretty mild build over all, but I am really considering ordering new pistons so this is a forever motor. I am going to be running a weber on this one, so nothing too nasty either.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Long time no post guys! Been building my shop. Going to order parts for my 225. I have two heads- one I bought off a guy on this site, been milled a bit. The other, stock, still on it. I really like this idea of the long rod 2.2 build, got my oregon cams already too. I have already hogged out my exhaust to 2.5 inches, this is a pretty mild build over all, but I am really considering ordering new pistons so this is a forever motor. I am going to be running a weber on this one, so nothing too nasty either.

The short block still wrapped up in plastic on the stand at the moment.

 

[Cruisingram]

How much do the pistons run? Is there a complete write up on this build somewhere?

 

[RustyRatRod]

How much do the pistons run? Is there a complete write up on this build somewhere?

It depends on what you get. The Wiseco forged are much higher of course than cast or hyper. I have the Silvolite 1293 pistons in mine. They are 229 from Summit, but that's for four. I found mine on ebay for cheap. What compression are you wanting? I have a set of six new dished turbo pistons that'll get you into the 9.2 territory. More if you mill the head and or block.

 

[Charrlie_S]

It depends on what you get. The Wiseco forged are much higher of course than cast or hyper. I have the Silvolite 1293 pistons in mine. They are 229 from Summit, but that's for four. I found mine on ebay for cheap. What compression are you wanting? I have a set of six new dished turbo pistons that'll get you into the 9.2 territory. More if you mill the head and or block.

You need to be careful on what piston/rod combo you use. The "stock" type 2.2 pistons for the non turbo flat top must be used with press fit rods. That means reconditioned 198 rods. The "stock" type dished turbo 2.2 piston can be used with either press fit or floating rods. That means can use either the K-1/Molnar rods, or 198 rods.
The Weisco pistons can be used with either type rod.

 

[Cruisingram]

It depends on what you get. The Wiseco forged are much higher of course than cast or hyper. I have the Silvolite 1293 pistons in mine. They are 229 from Summit, but that's for four. I found mine on ebay for cheap. What compression are you wanting? I have a set of six new dished turbo pistons that'll get you into the 9.2 territory. More if you mill the head and or block.

I have a milled head, no idea how much, I bought it off a member here and then forgot the specs, and can't find the specs. Which rods would I need with those? I do remember he said "mildly milled".

 

[Cruisingram]

You need to be careful on what piston/rod combo you use. The "stock" type 2.2 pistons for the non turbo flat top must be used with press fit rods. That means reconditioned 198 rods. The "stock" type dished turbo 2.2 piston can be used with either press fit or floating rods. That means can use either the K-1/Molnar rods, or 198 rods.
The Weisco pistons can be used with either type rod.

Thanks for this info!

 

[michiganpat]

It depends on what you get. The Wiseco forged are much higher of course than cast or hyper. I have the Silvolite 1293 pistons in mine. They are 229 from Summit, but that's for four. I found mine on ebay for cheap. What compression are you wanting? I have a set of six new dished turbo pistons that'll get you into the 9.2 territory. More if you mill the head and or block.

wish I were at a point where I could play with building up a motor for my duster. 9.2 with a cam maybe a step smaller than what you spec'ed and a long runner aussiespeed intake would make a very nice street motor.....but I got a kid going off to college in the fall and another who's a freshman in HS, so I'll just have to wait....

 

[RustyRatRod]

I have a milled head, no idea how much, I bought it off a member here and then forgot the specs, and can't find the specs. Which rods would I need with those? I do remember he said "mildly milled".

198 rods, or the Molnar or K1 Technologies versions. They are the 198 length. 7.005".

 

[Charrlie_S]

198 rods, or the Molnar or K1 Technologies versions. They are the 198 length. 7.005".

See my post #31 All those rods are the same length. You just need to make sure the piston pin is compatible with the small end of the rod (floating or press fit). The stock type replacement 2.2 flat top non turbo pistons do not have lock ring grooves and need to be run "press fit". You could have the lock ring grooves machined into the pin bore, but if spending that extra money, just get the Weisco pistons. The molnar/K-1 rods cannot be run "press fit", must be floating.

I wanted to run the flat top non turbo pistons and called Molner to see if I could get a set of rods for press fit, and was told "NO". 198 rods are getting hard to find. I have a set of TRW turbo, and a set of Sealed Power non turbo pistons. Both are forged.

 

[RustyRatRod]

See my post #31 All those rods are the same length. You just need to make sure the piston pin is compatible with the small end of the rod (floating or press fit). The stock type replacement 2.2 flat top non turbo pistons do not have lock ring grooves and need to be run "press fit". You could have the lock ring grooves machined into the pin bore, but if spending that extra money, just get the Weisco pistons. The molnar/K-1 rods cannot be run "press fit", must be floating.

I wanted to run the flat top non turbo pistons and called Molner to see if I could get a set of rods for press fit, and was told "NO". 198 rods are getting hard to find. I have a set of TRW turbo, and a set of Sealed Power non turbo pistons. Both are forged.

Then if he wants to run press fit, he'll need the stock 198 rods. Good luck with that. Thanks, Charlie!

 

[Charrlie_S]

Then if he wants to run press fit, he'll need the stock 198 rods. Good luck with that. Thanks, Charlie!

It depends what piston. If he uses the "stock replacement" dished turbo piston or the Weisco piston he can run the Molnar/K1 rods.
The "stock replacement" flat top non turbo piston needs the 198 rod
PS: The Weisco pistons are a flat top with a valve relief

 

[RustyRatRod]

It depends what piston. If he uses the "stock replacement" dished turbo piston or the Weisco piston he can run the Molnar/K1 rods.
The "stock replacement" flat top non turbo piston needs the 198 rod
PS: The Weisco pistons are a flat top with a valve relief

I've spoken with Wiseco and they said they have no plans to make anymore of the dished turbo pistons. Dammit all.

 

[Charrlie_S]

Then if he wants to run press fit, he'll need the stock 198 rods. Good luck with that. Thanks, Charlie!

I had two sets of 198 rods I sent to a new machine shop to have ARP bolts installed and reconditioned, and they ruined both sets. I just located 7 198 rods, and am hoping they are rebuildable. (but not by that other shop)

 

[Hyper_pak]

I have a milled head, no idea how much, I bought it off a member here and then forgot the specs, and can't find the specs. Which rods would I need with those? I do remember he said "mildly milled".

You need to CC the head.
I do mine with a 100 cc syringe and a plex plate.
Get it level and go slow.
It will get you close on the cheap.

 

[Hyper_pak]

I had two sets of 198 rods I sent to a new machine shop to have ARP bolts installed and reconditioned, and they ruined both sets. I just located 7 198 rods, and am hoping they are rebuildable. (but not by that other shop)

Ahh the super rare slant seven!

 

[Charrlie_S]

Ahh the super rare slant seven!

No substitute for cubic inches. If six ain't enough, and eight is too much, try seven

 

[Charrlie_S]

I've spoken with Wiseco and they said they have no plans to make anymore of the dished turbo pistons. Dammit all.

Campbell enterprises still shows the 25 over and the 45 over as still available

 

[RustyRatRod]

I had two sets of 198 rods I sent to a new machine shop to have ARP bolts installed and reconditioned, and they ruined both sets. I just located 7 198 rods, and am hoping they are rebuildable. (but not by that other shop)

I remember you tellin that story. That wouldda pissed me off. Bad.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Campbell enterprises still shows the 25 over and the 45 over as still available

I see the two valve relief but not the dish.

 

[Charrlie_S]

I see the two valve relief but not the dish.

The wiesco pistons are not dished. They are flat tops with valve reliefs

 

[RustyRatRod]

The wiesco pistons are not dished. They are flat tops with valve reliefs

They used to make the dished. That's what I was saying. They don't anymore and don't plan to offer them.

 

[Charrlie_S]

They used to make the dished. That's what I was saying. They don't anymore and don't plan to offer them.

I wasn't aware of any being dished. I thought they were all flat top with reliefs.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I wasn't aware of any being dished. I thought they were all flat top with reliefs.

Nope. They made both at one point. I've also contacted both Molnar and K1 and neither of them plan on any more runs of the 198 length rods for the cast crank. Both made those at one point as well. Tom Molnar said that if it was just a matter of machining the forged width rods narrower, it'd be a simple process. But the bearing lock tangs would be machine into, so it requires an entirely different rod. He did say if there was enough interest they MIGHT do another run, but I don't see it.