273 4 bbl Question

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d55dave

d55dave

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Ok so I am looking at and fairly serious about buying a 64 Dart GT. The owner knows very little about the car. It has, what appears to me to be an original 273 4 bbl engine, but after some research I have concluded that the 4 bbl didn't start until 65.

My question is, where there any late built 64's with the HP 273?

Looking at the picture, what year does this engine look like?

Here is the fender tag, if it helps.

Thanks!
 

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The 273 definitely sounds as though it is a solid lifter engine, where the 64 2 barell engines solid or hydraulic?

Thanks for any ideas or advice!
 
Solid lifters on all 273s until 1968.

2bbl carburetors on all 273s until some time into the 1965 model year.

How are you discerning that the engine looks to be an original 273-4bbl? All that takes is an air cleaner, carburetor, intake manifold, and valve covers—all items that are easily swapped on from above.
 
The fender tag... looks like from Hamtramck, MI Plant... Hmmmm, nothing under Q-R (Std Engine = no code)... So No that did not come with the 273 4BBL engine... I think that may have been originally a 225 Slant Six Dart GT... Also looks like a Slant six radiator...

But 64's are NOT my specialty... And I would like someone else to back this up...

I know the 273 4 bbl Charger/Commando was NOT an option till 1965... That I am sure of !!!

Clif of Az.:coffee2:
 
All 64 V8 cars came through with a 19" radiator, not until 65 did they up to a 22"! The Ou can easily tell the date of the block by looking at the casting number, or the assembly date and year are stamped on the front of the block under the drivers side head! An "A" would indicate a 65 block, a "B" would indicate 66, and so forth! To determine if it is even a commando motor, it would have to be a 65 or later assembly!

What carb does it have?? If it is an original commando motor it should have the smaller AFB with the small 4 11/16" horn ring for the commando air cleaner!
 
cosgig said:
All 64 V8 cars came through with a 19" radiator, not until 65 did they up to a 22"!
What carb does it have?? If it is an original commando motor it should have the smaller AFB with the small 4 11/16" horn ring for the commando air cleaner!
Click to expand...


Oh, that tid-bit on 64 Radiators I had forgotten about !!! Thanks cosgig !!!

As for the carb, I was trying to see the Large Brass (3854S - 3853S only) Air Adjustment Screw that Only came on the 1965 273 4bbl cars... can't quite make out d55dave's picture with my eyes/monitor... Anyone got better sight on that?

Clif :coffee2:
 

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slantsixdan said:
Solid lifters on all 273s until 1968.

2bbl carburetors on all 273s until some time into the 1965 model year.

How are you discerning that the engine looks to be an original 273-4bbl? All that takes is an air cleaner, carburetor, intake manifold, and valve covers—all items that are easily swapped on from above.
Click to expand...


Hey Dan,

I was only basing this on the fact that the car seems to be very much original and unmolested. I assumed that it was a factory 273 HP car until I realized that the 4 barell version didn't start until 1965.

It was bought at an icbc write off auction by the gentleman selling it, so the cars history is unknown. It was written off due to front end collision damage.

The price is right and I feel that the car can (and should!) be saved
 
clifcuda65 said:
Oh, that tid-bit on 64 Radiators I had forgotten about !!! Thanks cosgig !!!

As for the carb, I was trying to see the Large Brass (3854S - 3853S only) Air Adjustment Screw that Only came on the 1965 273 4bbl cars... can't quite make out d55dave's picture with my eyes/monitor... Anyone got better sight on that?

Clif :coffee2:
Click to expand...

Yep. Just looked at my picture, the single large screw is there. I will have to get some casting dates off the engine. The car definitely hasa 64 non slip yoke cable shift transmission in it, or did 65 904's still have the ball and trunnion style joints?
 
d55dave said:
The car definitely hasa 64 non slip yoke cable shift transmission in it, or did 65 904's still have the ball and trunnion style joints?
Click to expand...

IIRC cable shift and ball and trunion both went through '65
 
d55dave said:
Yep. Just looked at my picture, the single large screw is there. I will have to get some casting dates off the engine. The car definitely hasa 64 non slip yoke cable shift transmission in it, or did 65 904's still have the ball and trunnion style joints?
Click to expand...

The slip yoke started in 66 so 65 would still be B&T
 
Commando engine also had a prestolite dual point distributer. It was black cast iron. Wrinkle finish on valve covers was meant to mimic that.
 
The block numbers will help tell the story. It might be a 64 engine with 65 intake and bling. We're you able to confirm the cast dual point? Post the intake number and we can look that up.
 
toolmanmike said:
The block numbers will help tell the story. It might be a 64 engine with 65 intake and bling. We're you able to confirm the cast dual point? Post the intake number and we can look that up.
Click to expand...

I won't get a chance to see the car again for a couple of days. I will check the distributor and try to get some casting numbers.

Thanks for all the answers!
 
The block# will tell you the year, but I think the same PN for 2 bbl and 4 bbl. If it is 1964, then it wouldn't have been originally 4 bbl (per above). The only distinction in the "short block" I know of is that the 4 bbl Commando pistons are different. They have a slight crown instead of flat topped. I recall both pistons have recesses for the valves. Search on Google Images. You might be able to distinguish using a small video camera thru a spark plug hole, but could be inconclusive without having a piston out for a side view.
 
BillGrissom said:
The block# will tell you the year, but I think the same PN for 2 bbl and 4 bbl. If it is 1964, then it wouldn't have been originally 4 bbl (per above). The only distinction in the "short block" I know of is that the 4 bbl Commando pistons are different. They have a slight crown instead of flat topped. I recall both pistons have recesses for the valves. Search on Google Images. You might be able to distinguish using a small video camera thru a spark plug hole, but could be inconclusive without having a piston out for a side view.
Click to expand...

Here are what the 273 Charger/Commando 10.5:1 pistons look like that came in the 4 BBL motors.

Clif of Az. :coffee2:
 

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d55dave said:
I won't get a chance to see the car again for a couple of days. I will check the distributor and try to get some casting numbers.

Thanks for all the answers!
Click to expand...

Hey d55dave, when you see the car again, please take a picture of the rear valance where the exhaust exits... Curious I am!!! Thank YOU!!!

Clif of Az. :coffee2: (this is what makes it fun)
 
I know its a long shot but maybe they replaced original engine under warranty with a Commando...lol
Anything is possible.
 
2bbl has 4 eyebrows on the pistons, 4bbl has 2 only as the quench piston pic shows, 2/4 blocks were identical. 4bbl got the dual point dizzy. 64's had slender "/6" radiators...all that has been stated. take a better look at the passenger valve cover and show it to Cliff or Cosgig, they will be able to tell what ear they are as they are slightly different year to year with their tabs and guards, etc.
 
It has been monkeyed with. PCV valve on the wrong side and the oil filler is incorrect as well. The part is wrong. It should say "oil" and be chrome. And the fuel line is in the wrong place as well. look at bottom rad hose. On the left or right side? Left side it came out of a V8 car, right out of a / six. MT
 
cosgig said:
All 64 V8 cars came through with a 19" radiator, not until 65 did they up to a 22"! The Ou can easily tell the date of the block by looking at the casting number, or the assembly date and year are stamped on the front of the block under the drivers side head! An "A" would indicate a 65 block, a "B" would indicate 66, and so forth! To determine if it is even a commando motor, it would have to be a 65 or later assembly!

What carb does it have?? If it is an original commando motor it should have the smaller AFB with the small 4 11/16" horn ring for the commando air cleaner!
Click to expand...

My 64 273, 2 barrel, 4 speed radiator was interchangeable with the 66? I bought it in 1970 and appeared unmolested, except for paint.
 
All 64s were 1964 1/2 as the release date was APR1. Models usually changed around Sept. of the previous year back then.
 
66fs said:
My 64 273, 2 barrel, 4 speed radiator was interchangeable with the 66?
Click to expand...

Nope. The '64 radiator support panel has a cutout to accommodate a 19"-wide radiator core with narrow brackets on each side. Starting in '65, the cutout was horizontally enlarged to accommodate a 22"-wide radiator core. Slant-6 cars without HD cooling still got a 19"-wide core, with a wide bracket on the RH side to reach from the RH edge of the core to the RH edge of the core support cutout. V8 cars got a 22"-wide core with a narrow bracket on each side. A '64 radiator won't bolt into a '66, unless you can figure out a way to bolt the RH bracket to thin air.
 
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