318 horsepower

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gipperco

gipperco

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Hey Guys and Gals,
I am new to this site and I like what I have seen so far. I have a couple of questions for the group that maybe someone can help me with. I have a 74 swinger that I got for my wife. She wants me to set it up for bracket racing. I asked her how fast she wants to go and her response was, " faster than your Dad." : ) gotta love that response. He has a 74 Duster that turns mid 12's with a 360 4SPD. I picked up a 318/727 combo for it. What am I going to have to do to it to get those kind of times out of a 318?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 
Before we get into the engine, how far have you gutted the car?
NOw on the engine, you'll need to fully redo the whole thing. The compresion is to low and milling the heavens out of the heads isn't to good of an idea. For durability issues, I would look at a set of fordged pistons that will be able to get to a zero deck height without problems.
 
Welcome to the site. As Rumble said, weight diet and lots of good machine work and parts. If this is to be ONLY a bracket car, it's feasible, but if the wifey wants to have it as a street car also, a 318 running mid-12's on the track won't be very enjoyable to drive on the street. Compromise, compromise. :)
 
So if you want to run with a 360, START with a 360.

Not dissing the 318, but remember the first rule of hot rodding; "There's no replacement for displacement", or "There's no substitute for cubic inches" (except perhaps cubic dollars). And logically the second rule is "It takes money to go fast." But hey, for the same money invested in the rebuild, the 360 gives you 42+ more cubic inches, meaning at aleast 42 more HP and 42 more ft/lbs of torque. The 360 also has bigger port heads which will help you move the air required to make 400+ hp. For a given level of performance the 360 will develop the same power 500-1000 RPM lower. High RPM motors can get spendy.

Just a thought.
 
Dead on balls acurate!!!!!!!
But hey, for the same money invested in the rebuild, the 360 gives you 42+ more cubic inches, meaning at aleast 42 more HP and 42 more ft/lbs of torque. The 360 also has bigger port heads which will help you move the air required to make 400+ hp. For a given level of performance the 360 will develop the same power 500-1000 RPM lower. High RPM motors can get spendy.
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Did the same thing for my wife with a 75. We got the original 318 down to 16.4 with boltons before we yanked it in favor of the 360. This 360 was stock except for the same boltons and it immediately ran a 14.5. We changed the rear and tweaked and tuned it to a 13.9 and had some valve problems and a dead cylinder.

Now, valve problems are fixed and new pistons are in to bump CR. Going out next week to see if it will get into the 12's. I get to drive it first then its all hers.

Give me a week to see if it will even run in the 12's , then I can tell you exactly what we have done to this dart to get there.

And welcome to the board!
 
KB399 pistons are a domed piston and will give an easy mid to high 10:1comp with a 65cc head in a teen!

But if you go with the "big inches are everything" philosophy then then why not go the next step and bolt in a 440?
Mild hydraulc cam and 12's all day with easy driving?

In Australia 360's are not that readily available especially for a reasonable $$ but I expect they are still not too hard to locate in the US.. (lucky guys)


Steve.
 
The later Darts are lighter when you go thru them. You can remove the impact bumpers, the seats, and any options not needed like heater box and any AC stuff it might have. You can replace the hood with a fiberglass one. I would leave the stock fenders, and I wouldnt cut anything. Just unbolty stuff. Thats all "free" ET reduction. If you can get the weight down to 3000 lbs with driver, then all you need with decent gearing is about 375 horspower to run 109, or very low 12s. A simple recipe would be the 318 short, with decent flat top pistons (I like KB hypers, but to each thier own), stock redon rods w/ARP bolts, stock crankshaft, internally balance it all. I'd run a set of Magnum heads on it. They are a great compromize between "big port/big chamber/big valve" thinking and reusing the stock 318 heads with some upgrades. On a 318, I think they would be great, with an added benefit of 1.6 rocker ratio. A hydraulic cam will do the job, and with a bracket car, you dont want to have work under the hood like valve adjustments. Match that engine with a solid 904 built for the job, and a set of 4.30s with the tallest tire you can fit, and go racing. I bet with experience and tuning, you can touch the 11s with a car like that.
 
You can make a 12 sec 318 very easily and it can be very nice to run on the street and run on pump gas.......you don't need the 360. Yes you can build the 360 to make more power for about the same money cause it uses almost all the same bolt ons but you already have the 318 and it's so much fun spanking people with a 318 cause they get pissed......no one gives the 318 any respect even mopar guys and it drives me nuts. First thing is tell me your budget. How much do you want to spend? Are you looking to use stock or Eddy heads? You want to run on pump gas or race gas? Are you gonna keep the car street legal?
 
318ute said:
KB399 pistons are a domed piston and will give an easy mid to high 10:1comp with a 65cc head in a teen!

But if you go with the "big inches are everything" philosophy then then why not go the next step and bolt in a 440?
Mild hydraulc cam and 12's all day with easy driving?

In Australia 360's are not that readily available especially for a reasonable $$ but I expect they are still not too hard to locate in the US.. (lucky guys)


Steve.
Click to expand...

KB makes a zero deck piston for the 318.
Swapping an "LA" for a "RB" isn't allways practical or easy. Swapping a la for a la is easy stuff. But you are right about a easy going 440 running fast all day without big strees.

Dusterb318 You can make a 12 sec 318 very easily and it can be very nice to run on the street and run on pump gas.......you don't need the 360.
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Very true. The 318 will idle and have a bigger more pronouced chop to it and require more of a stall converter, but it is very do-able.
You can only ga as fast as your wallet sez so. He he he.

gipperco, was the plan? 318! Go for it. Just make a plan and stick to it. Otherwise, it'll just cost more money.
 
KB also makes two forged pistons for the 318 now too.....a flat top and dome. If you are going to buy heads go with a set of Edelbrocks....if you want stock ones swap to the magnum heads and use the Mopar M1 single plane 4bbl intake. If you use the magnum heads I would also swap to the bigger rocker studs and get a set of chebby roller rockers to bolt on.
 
Dusterb318 said:
You can make a 12 sec 318 very easily and it can be very nice to run on the street and run on pump gas.......you don't need the 360. Yes you can build the 360 to make more power for about the same money cause it uses almost all the same bolt ons but you already have the 318 and it's so much fun spanking people with a 318 cause they get pissed......no one gives the 318 any respect even mopar guys and it drives me nuts. First thing is tell me your budget. How much do you want to spend? Are you looking to use stock or Eddy heads? You want to run on pump gas or race gas? Are you gonna keep the car street legal?
Click to expand...


No one gives the 318 respect that should get... My neighbor/friend ran 12.20-12.30 in a 98 318 5 speed Dakota on a 150shot. He ran best of 13.6 on motor when it was 100°F outside. I think he hangs around this site every now and then because he has a Scamp now.

I have a '96 318 magnum that my '73 Swinger is getting soon. Lets just say, I will make it run 12's :D
 
I'm running 11's with a 100 shot.....if I can get the car to hook this year I should be bottom 11's with the 150 shot all on pump 93 and a motor that sounds very mild.
 
This guy I know suggested that I think about making the 318 into a stroker motor. What are the opinions of this idea. Will this help me accomplish what I am trying to do more efficiently? How about cost difference?
 
Been wanting to do this myself. With the standard bore and a Mopar Performance 4" stroker crank, the 318 turns into a 383. Any overbore only makes it bigger. The problem is the pistons. Nobody has them as shelf stock so they are pricy. Hughes Engines has a rotating assembly for this application, but it starts at .030" overbore and 390 CI. Ain't cheap either. If you can swing the shortblock, a set of Magnum heads, M1 single plane intake(for some reason 318's love single planes) and a 750 Holley, should get you close enough to what you want that lightening the car will get the rest. You'll be amazed how much useless frippery is on a 74 Swinger. My 66 4 door only weighs 2850 lbs with half a tank of gas.
 
M1 single plane intake(for some reason 318's love single planes)
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Short stroke engine love to rev. Add a cam to one and the power comes in at a higher RPM than a long stroke engine like a 360.
The short stroke will rev up quicker and through the rpm power range. A single plane helps this. It is easier to breath through. Large carb as well.
 
Diamond makes and off the self 318 stroker piston.....yes it is for a .030 over bore but if you are building a stroker why wouldn't you bore the motor anyway to gain a little more valve clearence.......jmo.
 
gipperco said:
Hey Guys and Gals,
I am new to this site and I like what I have seen so far. I have a couple of questions for the group that maybe someone can help me with. I have a 74 swinger that I got for my wife. She wants me to set it up for bracket racing. I asked her how fast she wants to go and her response was, " faster than your Dad." : ) gotta love that response. He has a 74 Duster that turns mid 12's with a 360 4SPD. I picked up a 318/727 combo for it. What am I going to have to do to it to get those kind of times out of a 318?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

First thing i'd do is get a 360 or a 340 block,you'll already be starting out with 42 or 22 c.i. more,and if you choose to stroke it even more....i always wonder why people bother with little 318's when theres so many 360 blocks out there..
 
He's alkready got the 318 block.....340's are barely affordable if you are even lucky enough to find a usualbe core anymore and 360's are starting to get picked over. The 318 can make good power on the cheap and is a great motor.
 
I am getting so confused. I keep hearing all of these different ideas and they all sound so interesting. On Saturday I ran into a friend at the track and he told me that I should keep the internals of the 318 the way they are and just get magnum heads and and a single plane edlebrock with a 750 Holly and that would give me the HP that I am looking for. He aslo said strip the car like EVERYONE is saying. Thoughts????
 
Basically it all comes down to what YOU want to do. If you want to keep the 318 you have two choices first. Stock stroke or put a longer arm in it. Then you can go from there depending on what you are using it on and look for different engine recipes and ask for some build suggestions for whatever motor YOU want to build.
 
gipperco said:
I am getting so confused. I keep hearing all of these different ideas and they all sound so interesting. On Saturday I ran into a friend at the track and he told me that I should keep the internals of the 318 the way they are and just get magnum heads and and a single plane edlebrock with a 750 Holly and that would give me the HP that I am looking for. He aslo said strip the car like EVERYONE is saying. Thoughts????
Click to expand...


Gee, that sounds familiar..And has been verified by some neutral sources too. I would do something totally different then ;).

The question is, if you are still asking, what did YOU want to do? Because if you are still asking, you had something in mind, and none of us came to that conclusion...lol.
 
Agree with last 2 post, make yourself a budget, and then see how much it is going to cost and what you want to spend. The bottom line is two things

1 How do you want it to run
2 How much can you afford to spend
3 What else are you willing to change to match the engine trans, gears, suspension etc.

take care and have fun with it!

PS if it was me and it gets costly just go with a 360 more bang for the buck even if you dont stroke it!
:thumbup:
 
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