318 LA torque?

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MopaR&D said:
5.2 Magnum swap wouldn't be 2 grand... get one in good shape for a few hundred bucks, intake manifold is another couple hundred, maybe $100-200 for a decent 4-bbl carb. Everything else will swap over from your LA engine. I haven't messed with a stick-shift one but I'd assume it would be easy to just put the LA clutch, flywheel etc. on there as long as the Magnum crank is drilled for a pilot bushing/bearing. Might be missing some small things but I don't see it being $2000 to swap a stock Magnum converted to carb in an old truck.
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Mounts, exhaust, electric fuel pump mod, adapters for this and that, radiator and/or different hoses/thermostat housings. The list goes on and on.
 
toolmanmike said:
Mounts, exhaust, electric fuel pump mod, adapters for this and that, radiator and/or different hoses/thermostat housings. The list goes on and on.
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Magnum blocks have the same mounting ears as LA blocks so mounts aren't needed. Put the LA timing cover on and you don't need the electric fuel pump, radiator, hoses etc. all the old stuff will bolt right up. Might need a t-stat and housing because the Mag uses the later small-diameter thermostat but that's what 30 bucks for both?

Exhaust might need to change a tad just coming off the manifolds but nothing a competent muffler shop couldn't fab up for $100 or so.

And that's the end of the list lol
 
diymirage said:
the reason 318 last forever and are low power is because they are low compression

in order to make power with it, you either need to get the compression up, or use it to your advantage by boosting it
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That's just untrue. A good set of good flowing heads with a matching camshaft and intake and carb with a good set of headers will wake that thing right on up. You don't need higher compression or boost. A good hot ignition curve and a nice little cam advanced to help it down low will set it on fire. His goal of 350 LB FT of torque is attainable on the low compression that 318 came with. Plenty of people have done it.
 
RRR shows another way to do it within budget without doing the bottom end
but your bottom end must be good use the .028 gasket when going back together
compression ok?
or at least budget some new rings and a hone, multi angle valve job, DIY hand blend mill the heads etc

Magnum 5.9 comes already with "a good flowing heads", matching hyd roller is about 197 degrees @.050 and you do not want to go over 204 with either build with stock compressions (magnum is higher out of the box)
If carb I like AVS or TQ but I'd take the time to learn the EFI, you need to lear new carb and dist curve on the conventional build anyway
 
Is there a way I can stroke the 318 but run stock connecting rods and pistons? If I can do the bottom end on a budget I'd do that but everyone says to upgrade the whole bottom end?
 
MoparTrucker said:
Is there a way I can stroke the 318 but run stock connecting rods and pistons? If I can do the bottom end on a budget I'd do that but everyone says to upgrade the whole bottom end?
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sort of: you get a 360 crank and turn the mains down to 318 size, then you run the low compression truck pistons and run an open chamber head with a fat head gasket. Some 318 pistons were so far in the hole that they look like they could take +.135. The numbers add up but Im not sure of the piston skirts to the crank throw clearance. Its been discussed here and the low comp pistons were news to me. Otherwise get a $320 Eagle 103404000 Eagle Cast Steel Crankshafts 103404000 cast 340 stroker crank, same as a 318 and real 318 stroker pancake pistons and balance the whole thing. Remember all 318s were neutral balance including the mags, all the 360 were Detroit balanced with added weight on something external.
 
Stop thinkin about the stroker. You'll never do it on your budget. Get the 318 runnin good first and save up for the stroker if you want. A good stroker even with you assembling it will be at the very least 5K dollars in parts and machine work. That is a very conservative estimate.
 
MoparTrucker said:
Is there a way I can stroke the 318 but run stock connecting rods and pistons? If I can do the bottom end on a budget I'd do that but everyone says to upgrade the whole bottom end?
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Sure... grind the mains down on a 360 crankshaft...then mill some stock 318 pistons .
Have fun with whatever you end up doing.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Stop thinkin about the stroker. You'll never do it on your budget. Get the 318 runnin good first and save up for the stroker if you want. A good stroker even with you assembling it will be at the very least 5K dollars in parts and machine work. That is a very conservative estimate.
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So would my best option with my budget just be upgrade the top end with Cam advance?
 
MoparTrucker said:
So would my best option with my budget just be upgrade the top end with Cam advance?
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What he says below.
RustyRatRod said:
Yes. I would run a compression test first to determine the overall condition of the engine.
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Further more, I wouldn’t listen to anyone here fruitlessly spending your money on BS internet builds. Screw the stroker. Follow my advice for a quick and effective means for towing.

There was one other worthy mention using cheaper parts than I used and suggested. But I don’t know if the Chinese intake will bolt on and go with everything on the 5.9 without issue. Minor issue on the Edelbrock RPM intake.

Purchase a low mileage 5.9 and the parts to make it work with your trans & etc....
 
A couple things I didn't see regarding the Magnum swap-

oil pan- need to get a custom one to work with Magnum in a car.
They are available

Cam 'snout" for a mechanical fuel pump-
The OE magnum cam does not have one.
A bolt on snout is available but has mixed reviews.
Otherwise, a slightly hotter cam (@$400, but no need for new lifters) with one already built on.

Again- Magnumswaps.com has a very complete list
 
YY1 said:
A couple things I didn't see regarding the Magnum swap-

oil pan- need to get a custom one to work with Magnum in a car.
They are available

Cam 'snout" for a mechanical fuel pump-
The OE magnum cam does not have one.
A bolt on snout is available but has mixed reviews.
Otherwise, a slightly hotter cam (@$400, but no need for new lifters) with one already built on.

Again- Magnumswaps.com has a very complete list
Click to expand...
I already addressed the cam snout extension, and this is a truck, no need to swap oil pan
 
RustyRatRod said:
A good set of good flowing heads with a matching camshaft and intake and carb with a good set of headers will wake that thing right on up. You don't need higher compression or boost. A good hot ignition curve and a nice little cam advanced to help it down low will set it on fire. His goal of 350 LB FT of torque is attainable on the low compression that 318 came with.
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"set it on fire' begs the question of if it will be a torque motor at 3k RPM and below, which the OP initially asked. I would not expect it to do so; the parts described above are not focused on enhancing low RPM torque. Maybe at 3-4-5k RPM, but below 3k RPM....??

The article below sounds like the type of low compression build that RRR is suggesting. The dyno results are on a chassis dyno so factor in maybe as much as another 20% on torque at the flywheel with their manual trans car.. so it is right around 300 ft lbs torque at the flywheel between 3250 and 4500 RPM and HP peaked at just under 5k RPM.

Might be great for a lot of fun, but IMHO not what was initially asked for, and not what I would do to a towing/hauling setup; that is the conflict in going down this path versus the OP's stated goals.

Now a different cam would move the torque curve down a bit at the expense of lowering the peak torque a bit; their cam selection was not optimum for a lower RPM engine operation but it is the right type of cam: fast ramp, so good lift and not too much duration.

This is article #4 in this series:
318ci Budget Engine Build -Part 4 Dyno Thrashing - Mopar Muscle
 
Just use a cam that has the same or similar intake valve closing timing as stock to keep the cylinder pressure up. My 222/226° @.050" cam in my 9:1 5.9 Mag with Edelbrock top end still lets me spin the tires from a standstill, and I've got 2.94 gears and a 2600-stall converter (this in my Duster) running at high altitude. Looking at the cam card from Racer Brown the IVC is the same as the numbers I've found online for the factory 5.9L Magnum cam.
 
nm9stheham said:
"set it on fire' begs the question of if it will be a torque motor at 3k RPM and below, which the OP initially asked. I would not expect it to do so; the parts described above are not focused on enhancing low RPM torque. Maybe at 3-4-5k RPM, but below 3k RPM....??

The article below sounds like the type of low compression build that RRR is suggesting. The dyno results are on a chassis dyno so factor in maybe as much as another 20% on torque at the flywheel with their manual trans car.. so it is right around 300 ft lbs torque at the flywheel between 3250 and 4500 RPM and HP peaked at just under 5k RPM.

Might be great for a lot of fun, but IMHO not what was initially asked for, and not what I would do to a towing/hauling setup; that is the conflict in going down this path versus the OP's stated goals.

Now a different cam would move the torque curve down a bit at the expense of lowering the peak torque a bit; their cam selection was not optimum for a lower RPM engine operation but it is the right type of cam: fast ramp, so good lift and not too much duration.

This is article #4 in this series:
318ci Budget Engine Build -Part 4 Dyno Thrashing - Mopar Muscle
Click to expand...

How do you know? I never mentioned cam specs. Did you get your crystal ball fixed? Mine is still broken from where the cats knocked it off the table.
 
If you put a 5.9 in it the flywheel to hook it up to the truck trans is $350.
 
Man, why are you lettin people potentially spend YOUR money the wrong way? You HAVE an 83 truck with a 318 already. Work with what you HAVE and you will spend the least money. You're not going to find some kind of magical horse power in a Magnum engine. It's still a 318. You what you HAVE.
 
Hmm... 1983 318 2-bbl is factory rated at 145 HP, 240 lb-ft while a 5.2L Magnum is 230 HP and 280 lb-ft. From the factory, stock vs. stock that's at least a 90 HP boost and 40 extra lb-ft to boot. Not "still a 318" IMO.

I like the Magnum swap because I've been down the road of upgrading a stock low-compression 318 and all you can do is open it up to let it breathe which only gives you HP at higher revs. A 360 responds the same way but they have a lot more low-end and mid-range torque to work with.

Here's an idea: keep your 318 short block the way it is and put some stock Magnum heads on it with a mild flat-tappet cam like this Lunati Voodoo Camshafts 10200701 with new lifters of course and definitely valve springs. Use the factory Magnum rockers but you'll need custom length pushrods. In fact I have a pair of stock Magnum heads in good shape (no cracks but need a little machining) along with rockers, Hughes valve springs and retainers, and conversion pushrods from MP which *might* work... I've been trying to sell this stuff locally for a while but no real interest. Feel free to shoot me a PM I have pics of the parts I can send I'd be willing to make a deal.
 
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