A904 front pump install problems 63 Dart GT

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Hello after rebuilding my A904 I ran into problems installing the front pump, I torqued the bolts to the correct 20nm as specified but then after that I can't turn the input shaft and the output shaft can only be turned with a bar/ lever. I have the correct clearances in the clutch packs, I really don't want to go any further without knowing for sure what the issue is. any help would sure be appreciated!
 
The direct and or front clutch pack isn't engaged all the way. Happens all the time, both need to 'thunk'.
 
Hey thanks! but will it have to be disassembled? or will these engage on first testing? many thanks!
 
you need to remove the pump...and pick up the clutch pacs and reset them...

best to do with trans on it tail and let gravity help.....

after setting..tighten two bolts on the pump and check to see if you can turn the input shaft...if it ok...tighten the rest
 
1. You can't install the pump with the trans standing on the output shaft (it pushes everything towards the pump)
The case should be suspended to let the output shaft settle in place.
2. If thrust washers were not greased in place they can fall out of place misaligning the locating tabs. (then they don't seat flat)
3. when dropping the drums in you should hear/feel a solid thunk when the shaft ends meet.
4. Put the front drum on the direct drum first and drop them both in at the same time while twisting the input shaft back and forth to engage all the clutch splines to the planetary ring gear.

Just some things to watch for.
 
sorry to say...been doing it that way for years....
 
If it was mine I'd be taking the clutch packs out for inspection. Theres a good chance they've been damaged.At least one may have bent teeth.

Definitely install those with tranny vertical, and O/S hanging free. I usually stick the tail in an old wheel, and stand the tranny up in a corner,somewhere.
 
70aarcuda said:
sorry to say...been doing it that way for years....
Click to expand...

There is a tool for measuring pump stator to front drum clearance, and it won't work/measure correctly if the shaft is pushed up. :D

I guess you don't measure that clearance before you put the pump in and just slam it in and hope it's ok?

Just messin with ya. :D

I know anyone that does them on any regular basis can feel it when the pump doesn't seat.
 
hey thanks for all the help and advise on this issue! well, I'm sorry to say I've tried all of those things mentioned above. The trans is suspended securely, tailshaft pointing down. everything looks seated correctly, the planetary gear train can't go down any further against the one way clutch bearing surface and the clutch packs are seated as far as they can go. I've taken out the clutch packs and checked for damage, there is none. Seems to be a clearance issue going on with the washer between the rear clutch pack and the planetary gear train. this is a small nylon washer about 1" dia. when I leave it out the pump installs fine with bolts snugged down (not torqued fully) I can then turn the output shaft by hand as well as the input shaft but it's really tight. and there's way too much end play going on so the washer has to be there.

I don't what I did to throw this thing so out of wack by just changing out the frictions and bands.
 
they make different thickness washers...

A&A trans has them
 
If that is all you did, then clutches are not fully seated. take a pic of the assembly without the pump installed, maybe we can spot where the issue is.
 
The planetaries have tabbed washers. They dont fit any old way. They are keyed to fit one way only. They only sit flat when correctly indexed. Its possible to put them together wrong, and everything goes along just fine, until the pump goes in. If you find that they are correctly indexed, then put it together with empty clutch drums. I know you dont want to hear that. But it will prove one thing for sure.
 
hey thanks that's really good info to know, I didn't know they were keyed. here's a pic of the original washer:
Original%20no3%20thrust%20washer%20RED_zpsjhngjuge.jpg
It looks pretty uniform all the way around and no indications that its keyed. maybe it's worn off? I replaced it with an identical extra I had from another 904 and made it slightly thinner. Installed the clutch packs, installed the pump and torqued the bolts to spec 20nm. The output shaft now turns freely by hand and the input shaft end play is tight and I can actually turn it by hand with a good grip. here's vid of the clutch packs installed and the front input shaft play:

[ame]http://vid1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd500/betatime89/63%20dart/A904%20torqueflite/a904%20clutch%20packs_zpsrdmpy2dm.mp4[/ame]

[ame]http://vid1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd500/betatime89/63%20dart/A904%20torqueflite/a904%20input%20shaft%20end%20play_zpsvsn0zig6.mp4[/ame]

[ame]http://vid1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd500/betatime89/63%20dart/A904%20torqueflite/a904%20output%20shaft_zps9u9eam2q.mp4[/ame]

I don't know I may have finally got it here but I'm no expert. This is my first automatic rebuild so if I have to I'll go thru it again to get it right.
 
The "keyed" washers are the ones that go on the planetary sets.
I'm sure you noticed the tabs/keys on them when you put them in.

That 1" or so fiber washer goes between to two shaft end where they meet.
(which I'm sure you have right because it can't go anywhere else.

You may have a planetary washer not seated all the way though, causing the tight clearances.
If I remember right there is one washer that can only go on the planetary set one way and seat all the way against the planetary assembly.
 
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