A998 w/ Lockup in a 65 Dart with 273

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Great post!

I'm putting a transmission I pulled from a 85 5th Ave into my 70 Duster 318 V-8. What issues do I need to be aware of starting out?

Also, I thought this was a A904, now I don't know based on what I'm reading here. Is this really a A998?
 
If its the original 85 trans it is a 998 w/ mechanical lockup.

Lon
 
Went to hook up the kickdown linkage and discovered a problem. The vertical rod from the upper bell crank to the lower bell crank was too long.
View attachment Too Long.jpg

Turns out that the mounting boss for the lower bell crank is in a different location.

Here's the 1965 transmission:
View attachment Old Trans.jpg

Here's the 1984 transmission:
View attachment New Trans.jpg

The boss is higher and farther forward. The solution was to make a shorter vertical rod and to swap the horizontal rod and lever on the transmission with later versions that are shorter and clocked at a different angle.
 
I know you are trying to keep the look stock but a Lokar throttle pressure cable would replace the linkage. Or you could make a newer shorter rod in that location.

Keep the build info coming! :happy1:
 
Be very careful to ensure that your hybrid system still pushes the TV lever ALL the way back at WOT. From here, it looks like the linkage will hit the started house before it is able to do that. It might be a good idea to switch the entire KD system over to the later style that was on the doner car, or from an early to mid seventies A-body.This style is also more compact and smoother working.
 
Sorry I didn't get a picture of the finished linkage before installing the engine and transmission into the car. But I did make a shorter vertical rod and swapped in a longer horizontal rod and a different lever. I adjusted it per the procedure in the factory service manual and I'm getting full travel at wide open throttle.
 
I went through a major ordeal trying to get a shifter cable conversion kit from Imperial Services. Their kit is supposed to allow you to connect a 1965 floor mounted cable shifter to a later style transmission.

Imperial Services has stopped selling to end users and now only sells through resellers. I placed an order with Schumacher Creative Services. They tried really hard to get me the kit, but after a month and a half, they gave up, apologized profusely, and canceled my order. The only other reseller, A and A transmissions, told me that there was no longer a separate kit for 1965 and sold me their only remaining push-button style kit.

The kit arrived and I tried to install it. I don't see how this thing could ever work. The cable is too long, the bracket points the cable straight forward towards the bell housing, and the arm they provide for the transmission end is the wrong length for the amount of travel in the 65 shifter. My theory is that Imperial Services sold a different kit for 1965 cars for good reason and they are not interchangeable.

Anyways, I decided to send it back and set about to design my own solution.
 
65DartGTConv said:
The low stall speed makes me nervous. The Isky E-4 is not that big of a cam but still, it's a 273, not exactly a torque monster. If it was pulling down the idle speed that much it must have tended to creep really bad. Was your engine healthy? Did it have a big cam?

I think this makes the research that much more important. Maybe their were different converters used in different years?
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You won't have any issues with the E-4. Mine idles at 650 in neutral tmm
 
I have the Imperial Services kit for the 65 that I was going to use in my 65 Dart floor shift car. I had a later model 904 rebuilt where they did the valve body mod with the part supplied by IS. Being a glutton for more punishment, I ordered (and received) another kit but this one for the column shift. And now I won't be using either kit.
 
After numerous attempts both in cardboard and light gauge sheet metal, I finally came up with a workable design which I fabricated in heavier gauge metal.

I chose a B&M 80604 cable which sells for about $50. Did I mention the Imperial Services kit cost me $250 plus shipping.

The B&M cable is 4 feet long which turned out to be a good length for the routing I chose. The cable is bright red, but I covered mine with shrink tube to make it a dark gray color that doesn't stand out.

I chose to route the cable from the transmission forward and to the left. This took me out over the exhaust system, but used up some length and avoided the sharp turns that would have been necessary with the Imperial Services solution. The other benefit was that it allowed me to use a shortened later model shifter arm which was clocked at the correct angle for my approach. The result was that the angle between cable and the shifter bracket is approximately 90 degrees at mid travel.

The bracket that holds the cable steps up over the exhaust and also serves as a heat shield. It mounts to the top side of the transmission pan using two pieces of threaded rod and some the nuts. The main advantage of mounting it this way is that the transmission pan can be removed without disturbing the cable bracket.

The Imperial Services cable was built with the correct length at the shifter end so that it mounts to the shifter just like the factory cable. The B&M cable has a longer end so I had to make a bracket that mounts to the front of the shifter to hold the cable sheath. It all fits within the factory console cover, but I did have to drill out the shifter rivets and replace them with bolts that also hold the bracket. I also chose to bend the factory cable mount out of the way to get the best possible angle on the cable so it would exit the console parallel to the floor.

The Imperial Services kit came with a spring which is installed in the valve body. It reduces the effort required to shift the transmission which is important because cables are good at pulling, but not so good at pushing. Harbor Freight sells a spring assortment that contained a suitable spring.

It's all together and adjusted and seems to shift very well. My only complaint is that the transmission end is so crowded that it's an absolute nightmare to get everything installed and adjusted. If the exhaust were out of the way it would be a piece of cake. The transmission lines are also in the way. I thought about removing the transmission cross member and lowering the tailshaft, but I was able to get it done without resorting to that.
 

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PocketAces said:
After numerous attempts both in cardboard and light gauge sheet metal, I finally came up with a workable design which I fabricated in heavier gauge metal.

I chose a B&M 80604 cable which sells for about $50. Did I mention the Imperial Services kit cost me $250 plus shipping.

The B&M cable is 4 feet long which turned out to be a good length for the routing I chose. The cable is bright red, but I covered mine with shrink tube to make it a dark gray color that doesn't stand out.

I chose to route the cable from the transmission forward and to the left. This took me out over the exhaust system, but used up some length and avoided the sharp turns that would have been necessary with the Imperial Services solution. The other benefit was that it allowed me to use a shortened later model shifter arm which was clocked at the correct angle for my approach. The result was that the angle between cable and the shifter bracket is approximately 90 degrees at mid travel.

The bracket that holds the cable steps up over the exhaust and also serves as a heat shield. It mounts to the top side of the transmission pan using two pieces of threaded rod and some the nuts. The main advantage of mounting it this way is that the transmission pan can be removed without disturbing the cable bracket.

The Imperial Services cable was built with the correct length at the shifter end so that it mounts to the shifter just like the factory cable. The B&M cable has a longer end so I had to make a bracket that mounts to the front of the shifter to hold the cable sheath. It all fits within the factory console cover, but I did have to drill out the shifter rivets and replace them with bolts that also hold the bracket. I also chose to bend the factory cable mount out of the way to get the best possible angle on the cable so it would exit the console parallel to the floor.

The Imperial Services kit came with a spring which is installed in the valve body. It reduces the effort required to shift the transmission which is important because cables are good at pulling, but not so good at pushing. Harbor Freight sells a spring assortment that contained a suitable spring.

It's all together and adjusted and seems to shift very well. My only complaint is that the transmission end is so crowded that it's an absolute nightmare to get everything installed and adjusted. If the exhaust were out of the way it would be a piece of cake. The transmission lines are also in the way. I thought about removing the transmission cross member and lowering the tailshaft, but I was able to get it done without resorting to that.
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Hello PA, With all of this information, you will have to excuse my simple questions....I am tending to get lost. Did you use the original dart floor shifter with the B&M 8064 cable? Also, the bracket which you fabricated looks great, and it looks like it works well for you. Would you happen to have made a template for this bracket, or would you happen to have a drawing for it? Thanks again. It looks like I am moving in the right direction with the great help from you and other members. Let me know if you could. Thanks: Old Dart 66
 
Yes, I used the factory shifter with the B&M cable. I had to modify the shifter slightly but the mods can be undone if I decide to go back to my 1965 transmission and cables.

I mocked up both brackets (shifter end and transmission end) using cardboard and I saved the mockups. Let me think about how to go about sharing them. I could easily upload photos of the unfolded cardboard to be used as templates, but it might be tough to get accurate scale from a photo. Alternatively, I could draw them in Visio to scale, add dimension lines, and then export to something everyone can read like a PDF. I'll try to get that done this weekend.
 
PocketAces said:
Yes, I used the factory shifter with the B&M cable. I had to modify the shifter slightly but the mods can be undone if I decide to go back to my 1965 transmission and cables.

I mocked up both brackets (shifter end and transmission end) using cardboard and I saved the mockups. Let me think about how to go about sharing them. I could easily upload photos of the unfolded cardboard to be used as templates, but it might be tough to get accurate scale from a photo. Alternatively, I could draw them in Visio to scale, add dimension lines, and then export to something everyone can read like a PDF. I'll try to get that done this weekend.
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Hello PA, Drawings with dimension lines would be great for myself and for our other members as well. I know I can say thanks for your effort, and I am sure there are others out there dealing with the same 65 Dart transmission situation as I. There are a few posts on our forum, but many lead back to Imperial which is, it seems, a dead end. Thanks again for myself and others. As I go through my car, maybe I can come up with some cool ideas that I can share as well. Fabo: A great place to learn. Old Dart 66.
 
PocketAces said:
Yes, I used the factory shifter with the B&M cable. I had to modify the shifter slightly but the mods can be undone if I decide to go back to my 1965 transmission and cables.

I mocked up both brackets (shifter end and transmission end) using cardboard and I saved the mockups. Let me think about how to go about sharing them. I could easily upload photos of the unfolded cardboard to be used as templates, but it might be tough to get accurate scale from a photo. Alternatively, I could draw them in Visio to scale, add dimension lines, and then export to something everyone can read like a PDF. I'll try to get that done this weekend.
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Looks Like your my go to guy on this build, and I can not thank you enough. You responded to my question on how to build the 66 273 to clone the 65 commando/charger engine. I did look at your engine build thread, but as I said, I am quite green on engine mechanics. I will have to research some of the terms to begin an understanding. Anyway, thanks for your help. Did you happen to have any luck in finding your template on building the brackets for the 904? I do have a local mechanic who owes me a little money, and he said that if I buy the parts, he would do the work. He is a reputable mechanic, but just asking on what parts to buy. I got quite a few answers from a variety of fabo folks which is greatly appreciated. Yours is up and running, and it would be great to have your help. Thanks again. OD66
 
Here are two images of templates for the brackets.

The first image is for the front extension on the factory floor shifter. After folding the bracket into a U-shape, the four holes should line up with rivets in the shifter. I drilled out the rivets and replaced them with bolts and nylock nuts. Don't cut the hole in the center of the bracket. That's there so I could test fit the template onto the as-built bracket. What goes there instead is a stud to hold the B&M cable. I added a small U-shaped bracket under the stud to keep the cable from rotating on the stud.
20160601_160556.jpg

The second image is the bracket that holds the cable at the transmission end. Two of the holes should line up with the pan bolts on the left front of the pan. The bracket is designed to bolt to the top of the pan rail. I replaced those two bolts with studs that protrude out the top of the holes so nuts can be used to secure the bracket. After bending the edges up, I welded them for stiffness.
20160601_160640.jpg
 
PocketAces said:
Here are two images of templates for the brackets.

The first image is for the front extension on the factory floor shifter. After folding the bracket into a U-shape, the four holes should line up with rivets in the shifter. I drilled out the rivets and replaced them with bolts and nylock nuts. Don't cut the hole in the center of the bracket. That's there so I could test fit the template onto the as-built bracket. What goes there instead is a stud to hold the B&M cable. I added a small U-shaped bracket under the stud to keep the cable from rotating on the stud.
View attachment 1714939512
The second image is the bracket that holds the cable at the transmission end. Two of the holes should line up with the pan bolts on the left front of the pan. The bracket is designed to bolt to the top of the pan rail. I replaced those two bolts with studs that protrude out the top of the holes so nuts can be used to secure the bracket. After bending the edges up, I welded them for stiffness.
View attachment 1714939513
Click to expand...
Is there a chance that you might have any measurements for the cardboard mockup? Even a tape measure lying next to the mockup. With that, I could scale. Thanks so very much for your help. I am still 6 months away from the install due to an upcoming surgery, but, hey, thanks so much for your great help. Good to have so many good fabo members to rely on. If anything else, possibly a trace of it and sent to me? I could give you my regular email or mailing address. That would be a tremendous help. I have most everything else figured out, but this is the great puzzle for me as I go on. Thanks so much. Old Dart 66
 
Old Dart 66 said:
Is there a chance that you might have any measurements for the cardboard mockup? Even a tape measure lying next to the mockup. With that, I could scale. Thanks so very much for your help. I am still 6 months away from the install due to an upcoming surgery, but, hey, thanks so much for your great help. Good to have so many good fabo members to rely on. If anything else, possibly a trace of it and sent to me? I could give you my regular email or mailing address. That would be a tremendous help. I have most everything else figured out, but this is the great puzzle for me as I go on. Thanks so much. Old Dart 66
Click to expand...

There's a ruler in both pictures.
 
Old Dart 66 said:
My apologies to you. I did not see the ruler as I viewed your diagram. I can go from there. Very best to you. Thanks a great deal. Old Dart 66
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Sorry it took so long. Good luck with your build.

I will warn you that the transmission end of this setup is extremely difficult to adjust, once installed. I was tempted to loosen the transmission mount so I could get my hand up in their, but I already had the exhaust installed and didn't want to risk putting too much stress on the exhaust manifolds. I recommend you get the cable fully adjusted before you install your exhaust.
 
PocketAces said:
Sorry it took so long. Good luck with your build.

I will warn you that the transmission end of this setup is extremely difficult to adjust, once installed. I was tempted to loosen the transmission mount so I could get my hand up in their, but I already had the exhaust installed and didn't want to risk putting too much stress on the exhaust manifolds. I recommend you get the cable fully adjusted before you install your exhaust.
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PA, Thanks for the help and the heads up on the clearances. Old Dart 66
 
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