TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
The two piece strut rod bushings are best in my opinion.
Actually easier to put in as well.
Alignment issues yet again
- Thread starter skep419
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The two piece strut rod bushings are best in my opinion.
Actually easier to put in as well.
skep419
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The thing I'm having trouble understanding is how the strut rod affects camber?
autoxcuda
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I think that picture is with the car on jacks and suspension fully dropped down. So the bushing/strut rod is at an abnormal angle. Twisted downward exposing the top contact area.
When at ride height that won’t look like that.
autoxcuda
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Drivers (left) side looks promising.
Pull in the rear UCA bushing until camber is the negative amount you want (-.25 to -.50). The caster will gain in the positive direction.
Then note caster when you get to the camber you want. Should be 1-3 degrees on the drivers side.
The passenger side worries me some... when you pull in the rear the camber will go more negative. And you are already at negative -.3 degrees. But you are further away from 1-3 degrees positive camber. Too much guessing though. Need to try to pull in rear with fronts out all way.
Maybe the passenger side is showing effects of bad strut bushings. And changing those will help. Hope LCA bushing are still good.
But while you were in the rack you should have got the toe a little closer to baseline and then tried to pull inward the rear UCA bushing. Then observed results.
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You want to avoid the adjusters that have flats cut on both sides of the threads like the ones in that picture. You can tell by looking at the washers, the bolt hole is flat on both sides instead of just one.
Can’t help you with the strut rod bushings, I replace all my stock strut rods with adjustable strut rods. With the stock ones you’re at the mercy of those bushings, and honestly I don’t think any one the ones out there are very good reproductions of the originals.
It shouldn’t effect the camber all that much, but it will totally change the caster. I don’t think the camber is your problem, it’s what the caster is at that camber setting that’s the issue.
Yeah but that worn clean spot is much larger than the diameter of the bushing. Even if the shape of the bushing changes a little when the strut rod is lifted, that bushing is still very loose. And the worn spot is actually pretty even all the way around.
skep419
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Something has to be bent. I can get the caster wherever I want it. The problem is on the right side the camber goes negative a hole bunch when positive caster is added. There is no way to get the camber where it needs to be like the left side.
I’m going to replace the strut rod bushings because they are shot but I don’t think it’s going to solve my problem.
I’m going to replace the strut rod bushings because they are shot but I don’t think it’s going to solve my problem.
You're thinking about this wrong. Caster and camber are not separate adjustments on these cars. If you change one, the other changes too, especially if you only have the stock adjustments and parts. Being able to get the numbers you want with the caster if you ignore the camber number doesn't necessarily mean you have a camber problem. The camber should be negative unless you're running bias ply's anyway, anywhere from -.25* up to about -1* camber will work fine.
What's screwed up is the relationship between the caster and camber. You should be able to get slightly negative camber AND positive caster at the same time. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a "camber problem" if the camber is off when the caster is right, anymore than it means it's a caster problem if the caster is off when the camber is right. If the strut rod bushing is allowing the LCA to walk back, you could be losing a couple degrees of caster, and that's why you can't get the caster without forcing the camber out of wack. Something could be bent too, there's lots of possibilities.
skep419
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Here’s the picture of the most positive caster. The right side camber just keeps going negative. To get the camber around -.5 the caster would be in the negative.
autoxcuda
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That doesn’t look that bad by itself
...but it’s odd in the right side that you are at positive +4.4 degrees caster and just moving the FRONT cam OUTWARD doesnt give you something like -.5 camber and +3.0 degrees caster.
Have you tried moving the front cam outward?
Then... bring both left side adjusters inward to get around -.5 camber +3.0 caster both sides.
There will always be a compromise in caster. It will end up matching one side with the least amount side.
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AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Which is exactly why I said to set the camber to zero, with the wheels straight ahead, to see the max possible available caster, which gives you an idea of what to do next. Those bushings, at factory ride height should get you close to 5 degrees caster at zero camber. If they don't, we have to go looking for the why. And the usual place I find it is in the LCA being too far back, and the usual cause for that is the strutrod bushings. It could be the K-member too far back...... but the factory bolts have shoulders on them which are supposed to draw the K up into the only position possible. But if the car has been tweeked in an accident... who knows what the last guy did.
If your ride height is not at factory spec then the caster could be shifted... because the Upper BJ moves for and aft during the UCA travels, because of the angle it is installed at relative to the ground-plane..
And the strutrod tugs the LCA in for and aft also as the LCA travels up and down.
You can tweek the static caster by shortening the strutrod, or effective strutrod length, pulling the LCA forward, but Who can say how long the bushings will survive.
On the rack, you can put a jack under the K and then loosen the T-bar screws. Now you can cycle the suspension up and down, and with the gauges installed on the wheels, you can witness the caster/camber changes, to find the sweetspot.
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skep419
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"...but it’s odd in the right side that you are at positive +4.4 degrees caster and just moving the FRONT cam OUTWARD doesnt give you something like -.5 camber and +3.0 degrees caster."
If I put the camber at -.5 the caster is still around -1.0.
If I put the camber at -.5 the caster is still around -1.0.
autoxcuda
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That relation seems off. Like it is not reacting how it should.
skep419
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that's what I'm getting at. something is messed up. not sure how to figure it out. I'm going with strut rod bushings alone aren't going to fix it. Hoping there is something to be measured or tried to figure out whats going on.
skep419
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The end looks bent.
Does this matter?
Also AJ the right side camber doesn’t get to zero. -.3 is the closest it gets.
Strut rod is bent. That’s a pretty minor bend though, I don’t think it’s the “smoking gun” for your alignment issues. But if it’s bent then other parts could be too.
If you can’t get the camber to 0 that’s an issue too. I wouldn’t set it more positive than -.3*, but you should be able to. That’s a bigger issue than that strut rod would cause, the way these suspensions are designed it should be easier to get positive camber than negative.
If you can’t get the camber to 0 that’s an issue too. I wouldn’t set it more positive than -.3*, but you should be able to. That’s a bigger issue than that strut rod would cause, the way these suspensions are designed it should be easier to get positive camber than negative.
skep419
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Bent lower control arm?
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The LCA doesn’t look too bad, but that’s pretty hard to tell from a picture unless it’s totally screwed. Put a straight edge on it and see if the ball joint lines up with the adjuster blade. Looks like there’s some play at the blade end, but that’s not uncommon and shouldn’t keep you from getting the alignment right.
Is all that shiny metal from the bushing install or is it rubbing on something?
Is all that shiny metal from the bushing install or is it rubbing on something?
skep419
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It’s from the pry bar. Instructions said to leave it attached to the lower ball joint and pry
Between the k-frame. Probably just as easy to take the control arm totally out.
Between the k-frame. Probably just as easy to take the control arm totally out.
cookietruck
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that LCA looks a little bent, but it's in the direction that should give you more caster...
the K-member doesn't look deformed where the strut rod bushing seats does it? seems unlikely given the factory reinforcement in that area on that K...
the K-member doesn't look deformed where the strut rod bushing seats does it? seems unlikely given the factory reinforcement in that area on that K...
AJ/FormS
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Take a really close look at the RH LCA. It sorta looks like the spindle end is going off to the rear of the car, which would explain the no caster on that side, look just at the spindle end cuz the rest of it looks skewed in the opposite direction but may just be where the T-bar socket is resting.
skep419
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Everything else looked ok. Wacked the strut rod bushings in.
Set the ride height 1/2” higher to 26”
Driving it to work tomorrow.
87 degrees today
34 tomorrow morning.
Set the ride height 1/2” higher to 26”
Driving it to work tomorrow.
87 degrees today
34 tomorrow morning.
autoxcuda
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If the strut rod is bent something at one end caused or was part of that. If it’s bent right before it enters the LCA, I’d REALLY start inspecting that LCA and be really suspicious of it.
Since it’s a non sway bar LCA, I’d think about finding another if your questioning the straightness of the current LCA.
skep419
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This is the best I could get it. Is what it is I guess. Sick of messing with it.
Going to have to set toe. (Ran out of time)
Going to have to set toe. (Ran out of time)
Those numbers aren’t that bad. I would expect another degree or so on the caster with the offset bushings, but ride height, both front and rear, as well as the rake, can make a big difference.
Did you do anything other than change the strut rod bushings?
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