Any one try this ( Mopar 318 Engine - Cheap As Dirt )

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There is noting wrong with that 318 build! but if your going to enjoy that "teen" you had better flip for a good Hi Stall converter.

Did you notice that the dyno pull started in the 3600 rpm area????

If you us a stock stall or even a 2000 stall.......your not going to be happy with that 400 HP eng.

Even if you made that build on a 340 platform, you still would need the HI Stall to be happy with it!

It's a grate build but you need to look down the road a little bit, to make it a happy ending:burnout:
 
cool article, its nice to see numbers for once. my buddy has built some awesome 318's and i always wondered what they would do on a dyno. thanx for posting this.
 
YY1 said:
Find a 340 for the same (or even twice the) cost as a 360.

So you're not one of those "20 cubic inches more displacement means more power period" guys?
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This where people go wrong with "No Replacement for Displacement" Air flow over time is what make HP along with efficiency minus friction. Going from a 340 to 360 ain't gonna give you anymore HP it will just take a few hundred rpm to accomplish the same output but a 360 will make more torque but still doesn't win cause if both are geared properly the torque to the ground will be about the same.

340 pros
Bigger bore, ability for more airflow= hp
Better bore to stroke and rod ratios and
Smaller main bearing= less friction= hp
Stock stroke ability to rev higher=hp
If built with same stroke more displacement and torque
Apparently lighter but don't see how

340 cons
Cost

Either would make a great engine though.
 
Whst he said correct!



UOTE=JBurch;1970121437]I think the point is that 318's are still REAL CHEEP, 360's are getting spendy; yes they can be had cheep also but not like they once were; gettn' like 340's. 318's are still being thrown away, take them for free just to get them out of the way.

It's a low buck build, it makes power, and when you tell the chebby guy you beat him with a "teen"!!!! It's way more satisfying!! It's also saying that you don't HAVE TO HAVE a 340, or 360 for that matter, to make respectable power.

Build what you've got, and stop day dreaming.[/QUOTE]
 
They really understated how much work is needed to get a set of iron 360 heads to flow 240+ CFM (approx 30 hours worth of porting)

My 318 is really similar to this and made 352hp.
 
If you have a 318, then you have to buy the core 360 heads, right? I dunno... There's no difference in cost for me between doing a 360 vs 318 vs 440. Maybe a couple hundred because of the RB parts costs, but the small blocks are the same. So yeah - you've proven a "larger" cam 318 with bigger heads can make 400hp with good static compression on a dyno well known for "happy" results.
I'd expect a 360, with the same machining, type of flat top piston, the same camshaft, the same intake, the same everything - would add another 30-40 pound feet of torque off from idle up, and probably another 15-25hp at peak for the same money. If torque on the street is king, how can a torque peak of 4800 be good? It makes less than 25% more torque than a stock 5.2L Magnum & less than 15% more than a bone stock 5.9L Magnum - and it makes it 1200 rpm higher in the rpm range.
The best info in that article was the bit about the hydraulic lifter/valvetrain control issues.
 
Moper if you put the 318 and 360 you just talked about in 2 identical 4 gear dusters set up for street and strip but geared them proper wouldn't the torque to the ground be about the same since the 318 would have to run a lower gear ?

I understand the frustration from 360 guys cause no matter how you slice it theres no reason to run anything less, knowing that I'm still gonna build a 400+hp 273 for my car :)
 
Everything that runs at Westtech Dyno hits at least 400 hp....saw the Briggs and Stranton make 410 hp with super sucker on it.....how else can they sell magazines....


340 pros
Bigger bore, ability for more airflow= hp
Better bore to stroke and rod ratios and
Smaller main bearing= less friction= hp
Stock stroke ability to rev higher=hp
If built with same stroke more displacement and torque


340 cons
Cost
Heavy *** pistons...swing a 5 lb hammer..then swing a 10 lb hammer..which one swing faster...

Get a 360..in long run you will be money ahead....
 
The cost difference between the two IF you allready have the 318 is the purchase of the 360 . At $150 - $200? The cost of the KB167's for the 318.
Displacement & power potentail aside, your ahead of the game staying with the 318.

LOL @ Tony! Good one
 
273 said:
Moper if you put the 318 and 360 you just talked about in 2 identical 4 gear dusters set up for street and strip but geared them proper wouldn't the torque to the ground be about the same since the 318 would have to run a lower gear ?

I understand the frustration from 360 guys cause no matter how you slice it theres no reason to run anything less, knowing that I'm still gonna build a 400+hp 273 for my car :)
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I'm far from a 360 guy...lol. I'm a "maximum return on investment" guy. Be it a 505" or 225".
To answer your hypothetical - It depends on how you define "properly geard", wouldn't it? Using my thought process - like if you were my customer and I'm helping put the package together and assuming a standard A833, not an OD - if you're gearing for racing, it wouldn't matter. Your correct because you'd gear to get a little beyond peak hp at the strip in 4th with whatever tire you're planning to run. That might be 4.10s, or 4.88s or more depending on the expected horsepower peak. But for a street car - you gear for street driving. Daily driver might have 2.76, or up to say 3.55s. Occasional "fun" might be 3.91 or 4.10s. So the idea of maximizing the gear for acceleration is secondary. At that point, the longer stroke is what gets the knod from me. If you're going to tear it down to bare block, you will spend close to the same money to get a core 360 or 5.9L Magnum. as you will to rebuild a 318 short and find, buy, and ready a set of LA heads for it. It's a matter of a few hundred if that. I'd pay $3-400 more for an additional 40 pund feet and bigger torque at 2500 where I'm going to be cruising most of the time.
 
Well I have 3 engines at my disposal. 2, 318s and a 413 max wedge. I'm going with the 318 in my dart. Why, because I want something streetable, 300-350 hp by the time I get done. I dont want a fast car, just a cruiser. plus the I already have a small black 727 and the cross members as drive shafts. plus I think the 7 1/4 rear will hold the 300-350 hp for now while I save for the 8 3/4. I've built the monster motors, 472 stoker, 600 hp on pump gas. machining, and parts set me back close to 6 grand, if you include the build up in the trans. I bet I can duplicate this 318 build for less than a grand. Probably less than 5-6 hundred.
 
Don't remember the exact issue, but back in 02-04 Hot Rod did a 400 horse 318 using closed chamber 318 heads and the stock 100,000 mile bottom end.
 
A38Valiant said:
Don't remember the exact issue, but back in 02-04 Hot Rod did a 400 horse 318 using closed chamber 318 heads and the stock 100,000 mile bottom end.
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Theres like 5 400hp 318 builds all with different heads
Pretty much all the same besides the heads, 10:1,air gap,
285ish cam, 200 plus cfm heads
 
Moper I guess proper gearing is a relative term, for race cars its easy, But a street car could be anything from mild to wild, but they way I see if your gonna go 318 you need 10-15% more gear than if you went 360. I'm planning to 4:88 plus ratio when im done.
 
OH MY GOD! PM me your address, I'm coming over!

Local J-yard charges between 800 & 1500 for complete used 360 engines from junked Rams. It does not include the computer, fan, engine mounts etc....

Used 4spd O.D. Trannys come without a torque converter or wiring. Prices start @ $1100.

All Prices are NON NEG
 
I ran a 318 bracket racer for years. First pass was a 9.40 1/8 with 2.76 gears a .450 lift hyd cam and a eddy performer with a 750 eddy carb. Had flat top trws too. Next the teen heads with a plunge cut and some 1.88s and got a set of 391s in the rear.dropped to around 8.70s . Enough to handle stockish mid 90s z-28s. Boy were they pissed being beat by a 318 in a granny looking duster with 245 60 14s and hub caps.Next was worked 360 heads with 2.02s and 1.60s a solid cam adv. at .575,adjustable rockers and a set of 26x10.5 x15 et drag slicks and centerlines.Changed to a 750 holley and 3000 stall and got it down to 8.20s. Was kicking major street car butt. Then stepped the block up to a balanced 360 with kb 191s and hooker super comp headers. Car ran 7.20s with 4.57s in the rear. Didnt have as much fun with the 360 though. 7s were expected.Was way more fun kicking butt with the teen. People would call me a liar and swear it was a 340. Something fun about running a teen and having bragging rights.
 
You can get a running, driving Ram, van, or Dakota with a 5.2 or 5.9 down here for $1200-$1500!!
 
dukeboy_318 said:
Well I have 3 engines at my disposal. 2, 318s and a 413 max wedge. I'm going with the 318 in my dart. Why, because I want something streetable, 300-350 hp by the time I get done. I dont want a fast car, just a cruiser. plus the I already have a small black 727 and the cross members as drive shafts. plus I think the 7 1/4 rear will hold the 300-350 hp for now while I save for the 8 3/4. I've built the monster motors, 472 stoker, 600 hp on pump gas. machining, and parts set me back close to 6 grand, if you include the build up in the trans. I bet I can duplicate this 318 build for less than a grand. Probably less than 5-6 hundred.
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You will have about $1300 in this build, in balancing, pistons, milling, bore/hone, hard parts, gaskets, intake, carb and a cam, on the cheap. That is a lot of head work. Unless you can port it and do the CC check yourself, you still have to flow them, I'd say about $500 in the heads alone, if you don't touch them, yourself.

I think you should sell the 727, buy an 8 1/4 (skip the 8 3/4) and a 904 to get more of your engine to the ground. That 7 1/4 is going to snap.
 
I vote for Dave Bonds! After I take a flight to FL.!
 
273 said:
Moper I guess proper gearing is a relative term, for race cars its easy, But a street car could be anything from mild to wild, but they way I see if your gonna go 318 you need 10-15% more gear than if you went 360.
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x2
 
moper said:
The best info in that article was the bit about the hydraulic lifter/valvetrain control issues.
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Absolutely.

Very informative about how valvetrain weight effects the intensity of the wider lobes, and how valve spring pressure is more of a factor to place in after the parts are selected.

The more I look in to stamped hydraulic rockers, the more I like them.
 
rumblefish360 said:
OH MY GOD! PM me your address, I'm coming over!

Local J-yard charges between 800 & 1500 for complete used 360 engines from junked Rams. It does not include the computer, fan, engine mounts etc....

Used 4spd O.D. Trannys come without a torque converter or wiring. Prices start @ $1100.

All Prices are NON NEG
Click to expand...

U-pull it yards here in PA are $200 for an engine if you yank it out $300 if they pull it
DANA 60 out of a pick up cost $50
 
Seems like to that this build has a lot of upper RPM HP. I wonder what its like in the lower RPM range.
 
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