His anger towards you should have been directed at his tech.
Anyone local to me capable of correcting errors on a 904 race build
- Thread starter Big Dad
- Start date
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I'm not doubting that the transmission has issues but this sounds like a witch hunt. Why not use the shop that's been in business 40+ years that you trust for the transmission in the first place? The transmission was purchased before Cope quit building them. When was that? Over a year ago? I'm not sure when he quit building but seems like it was over a year ago. From the builders stand point a lot can happen in that time frame. You've stated he told you to calm down then hung up only to turn around and say he said send it back and then hung up. There's more to this.
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I had a similar experience with a local builder in Oklahoma. The trans failed in under a mile. Removed it, he rebuilt in again. I got about 10 easy miles on it before it self destructed. I pulled it out, and he blamed it on me and refused to warranty it again.
I took the trans apart and built it myself. It had many issues with it. I talked to Cope and bought most of my parts including a valve body from him. It has worked great.
I took the trans apart and built it myself. It had many issues with it. I talked to Cope and bought most of my parts including a valve body from him. It has worked great.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised he didn't at least offer to refund the labor portion of the $4,500 job.
Pretty sure spline count is different, so, I'd have to say wrong. Mopar made the count different by one on the switch to L/U, so that wouldn't be possible by design, preventing mistakes.
dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
what i always thought....
Duane
Well-Known Member
I have build my own non lockup 904 from a late 80,s lockup.
The first question I have for you is what did you both agree that he was going to build for you.
If I am not mistaken there is a difference in spline count between the lockup and non lockup input shaft.
This will affect your converter choice.
The lockup and non lockup pump each require there respective matching forward clutch as there is a difference in sealing ring diameter of about .060 though. So again, what did you agree he would build for you. You said this is a race 904. To me that means a high stall non lockup converter, and that means a non lockup input shaft from the aftermarket or a slant six trans.
If this trans was being built from a lockup trans into a non lockup to take advantage of the better steel planetaries and 1st gear ratio, requires mixing and matching of input shaft,forward clutch hub,front drum and a custom machined pump to account for the sealing ring diameter difference, and if using a five clutch front drum, needs the bevel machine on the pump to clear the drum.
The easiest way to get a no drive condition
Like you say you have is if the builder used a
Non lockup forward clutch hub with its .060
Smaller diameter, in a lockup pump. The parts will go together, but the sealing ring is the wrong diameter and will result in a huge hydraulic leak and resulting no drive condition. Converting a lockup 904 to a non lockup is not a straight forward rebuild.
It requires parts from two different trans to make one, and there are many pitfalls to watch out for. I am not defending the builder, but it would be easy to make a mistake.
So again what did you agree that he would build for you?
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Duane
Well-Known Member
Not only the input shaft, but the forward clutch hub sealing diameter is unique to the lockup and non lockup. There is a difference sealing ring diameter.
Duane
Well-Known Member
If they installed a non lockup forward clutch
Into a lockup pump, you will indeed get 4neutrals due to the difference in sealing ring diameter of the pump and clutch.
There was no such thing as a late 80,s lockup trans with steel planets and 2:74
First gear. It has to be made from a mix and match of parts and a custom machined pump.
Duane
Well-Known Member
I believe there is a difference in spline count.
I would say that depending on what is available in the aftermarket converter market, you may be able to use either one.
But with this late 80,s lockup model things are not that simple as to just change the input shaft.
See my other posts.
Duane
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with this. The late 80,s 904
Has a riveted in sprag. If it was replaced with an aftermarket bolt in, well these only go in one way. If you put the rollers in backwards I don’t think you could get the drum installed. I don’t buy that.
Even if the rollers fell out, I don’t buy that it would cause thousands of dollars in damage.
Even if Cope was having a bad grouchy day, does not mean he would not fix the issue.
You started off dissing the shop, but now telling us you’re a mild mannered religious person. I think the second guy you brought it too hosed you.
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
Copy of bill , after it arrived I called and questioned all that about the correct imput shaft , he told me he knew what he was doing
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
I said I work in a religious office , people here are from a colony , like Mennonites but, not same group
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
| Speaking to the ORC issue - you can load the springs and rollers incorrectly - which negates the ORC function. But you have to be almost asleep to do it. Last edited by Transman; 04/10/23 02:42 PM. |
I don’t think the truth is ever going to come out on this situation. I know John has built some nice transmissions over the years. Yes John like many of us is getting older and it sounds like he has struggled to get good help. Yes John had also made some great products for the Mopar community. Yes I have heard John can be short on the phone but I think most of us can be. I think most of us have an idea in our minds how this should have been addressed but at this stage it’s too late. I think possibly a partial refund could have gone a long way but that’s just my thinking. I wish both of you luck and both have a great 2023.
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
Nothing more to it , I tried to ask a question about who would pay for what and he didn't want to speak about it so he hung up ..
I was on actual call less than a minute , should at very least give a customer a few minutes to speak and ask questions , no yelling .. my voice is a bit raspy I recently spent week in hospital , not healed up yet
I can post that bill too . if no one believes that
The car has taken a while to put together , I've had some set backs , but, its been in a climate-controlled garage the entire time , I have heat and A/C both in shop
You think I have an issue just to stir up the net ? Funny , why would I do that ?
Duane
Well-Known Member
Exactly and the race that goes into the case,
Can only go in one way, even the bolt in models, which is why I don’t buy that that is what caused your issue. But I suppose anything is possible. John may not have been the person who built your trans. Could have been an employee.
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
I assume that is correct but, his name is on the business I have no control of who he chose to assemble it ..
He owed me at least the decency to speak about the problems and offer an apology and make me feel like he was going to help, not hang up // that just made me distrust him further
He owed me at least the decency to speak about the problems and offer an apology and make me feel like he was going to help, not hang up // that just made me distrust him further
Duane
Well-Known Member
Looking at your bill I can see that John does indeed know what he is doing. Because I have done this conversion from a lockup to a none lockup, I know what is involved. But my conversion was done years ago based on what was available in aftermarket converters.
John appears to be very up to date in what is available and it appears that Ptc makes
a 9.5 inch converter with the lockup spline count without a clutch to convert your lockup 904 into a non lockup. The only other thing required is the billet manual shift valve body. It’s right there in the bill.
John probably did not want to share his trade secrets with you when you asked why there is a lockup input shaft in there. He simply chose to tell you that he knows what he is doing. Indeed he does. But obviously there was some kind of mistake made during
the rest of the assembly process.
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Big Dad
Well-Known Member
I'll get the bill from the local person and post that too .. he told me what is wrong , its Egge transmission in Sioux Falls and another member suggested me to take it to
Duane
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you have said, however
a business person who was short with me on the phone, won’t deter me from persuing
$$4,500. And there is no way I would then spend another several thousand dollars somewhere else to get the problem resolved.
That is on the Op.
The parts are already bought and paid for so this rebuild won’t have those costs added in. I know how much it cost to freshen a transmission and what markup is. There’s no way this repair should cost the money you just quoted.
Duane
Well-Known Member
The Op quoted several thousand dollars if I,m not mistaken.
Big Dad
Well-Known Member
The transmission needs roughly $1000 worth of repair, it ruined the pump and some other stuff, the pump bushing was seized on the convertor hub so it had to go in the have that repaired. wasn't sure what it would cost, just depends on what is ruined
Read your post I quoted
And there is no way I would spend another several thousand dollars.
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