Broke my water pump bolt. Now what? (Update - broken bolt is out)

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Dicer said:
IF you are disassembling for whatever reason, IDK.... let the machine shop remove it for you.
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Hey, @cruiser, This is a great idea. If the engine is on a stand, you could back a pickup truck with the tailgate open up to the engine stand and put the engine in the back of a truck. Then take it to a machine shop.
HOWEVER, I REALLY like the idea @Super-Cuda had. find a welding service that will come to you. It will take them 5-10 minutes. I also like the idea @DC 340 had. They say that red Loctite needs heat to release it's bond. You would have to do it cold, but if it didn't work, you haven't lost much.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I agree with not using an ease out. Those things are made for one reason. Breaking off and making it impossible to fix.
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That happened to me once. I was trying to rebuild a brake caliper on a 65 Corvette I was restoring, and the bleeder valve bolt was stuck. I used an easy out, and it broke flush with the surface. I called a few local places, and they said that with a broken easy out in it there was nothing they could do. I called up a company that sold rebuilt calipers for that car (Stainless Steel Brake Corp), and they said, "throw it away. You'll never get it out by yourself." He said they could get it out, but they specialized in it. I wound up just buying 4 rebuilt calipers from them. They gave me a full core charge on the damaged one. That being said, it was the only time I broke off an easy out. But I agree it can turn out badly!
 
harrisonm said:
That happened to me once. I was trying to rebuild a brake caliper on a 65 Corvette I was restoring, and the bleeder valve bolt was stuck. I used an easy out, and it broke flush with the surface. I called a few local places, and they said that with a broken easy out in it there was nothing they could do. I called up a company that sold rebuilt calipers for that car (Stainless Steel Brake Corp), and they said, "throw it away. You'll never get it out by yourself." He said they could get it out, but they specialized in it. I wound up just buying 4 rebuilt calipers from them. They gave me a full core charge on the damaged one. That being said, it was the only time I broke off an easy out. But I agree it can turn out badly!
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They're a piss poor design basically to take peoples' money. They screw in and expand the broken fastener making it almost a 100% certainty to make it more difficult to get the fastener out. I've seen them work in very low torque applications......where you probably could have succeeded without them.
 
If you resort to drilling and retaping the hole.... Bolt the water pump back on. A drill bit the same size as the hole in the pump casting will make you a nearly perfect center in the broken bolt. Fecking up whats showing with vise grips can make matters worse.
 
No that will actually get him an oversized hole .
When you drill and tap a hole the drill size for the tap is smaller than the listed thread size.
As far as the vise grip truck, if he's EASY with them so he don't mess up what's there he might just be able to walk what's left outta there especially if the reason for the bolt breaking was corrosion to the water pump which is now not there it may be pretty free in the block
 
volaredon said:
No that will actually get him an oversized hole .
When you drill and tap a hole the drill size for the tap is smaller than the listed thread size.
As far as the vise grip truck, if he's EASY with them so he don't mess up what's there he might just be able to walk what's left outta there especially if the reason for the bolt breaking was corrosion to the water pump which is now not there it may be pretty free in the block
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Just tried PB Blaster for a few days, heat with a torch and vise grips. No luck. Will keep working on it.
 
volaredon said:
No that will actually get him an oversized hole .
When you drill and tap a hole the drill size for the tap is smaller than the listed thread size.
As far as the vise grip truck, if he's EASY with them so he don't mess up what's there he might just be able to walk what's left outta there especially if the reason for the bolt breaking was corrosion to the water pump which is now not there it may be pretty free in the block
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He's suggesting using the water pump as a template to center the hole.
The actual drilling of the bolt must under size.
I've drilled out bolts several times. The bit has to be smaller than the threads and then some.
Using a bit made for hard steel helps, and the left hand thread bits are good for this job - there are some made specificlly for this and in my experience work OK.
 
The I would do it without a welder is to heat the block around the bolt (not the bolt) with a torch and when it is good and hot then spray with penetrating oil may take several tries. Then hit it with a hammer to vibrate the bolt and keep spraying with penetrating oil rinse and repeat. It would be best if you could get someone with a welder to weld a nut on it and then doe the other steps.
 
After spending over 40 years in maintenance in the food industry, I have seen many mechanics heat the broken bolt and then quickly grab hot softened steel and try to turn it. The result is obvious, it doesn't work! Heat the bolt red hot as best as you can and walk away, let it cool and shrink, then attempt to turn it.
Cast iron does not expand when heated as steel does. Use this to your advantage as steel, when hot enough, expands and is constrained inside the cast iron, then shrinks as it cools. If the bolt is long and deep, only the part that got hot enough to shrink when cooled will release from the casting. I used a brazing tip of my acetylene torch to concentrate the heat.
Remember, steel in cast has advantages..
Good luck.
 
Easy-outs can cause worse problems if they snap off to leave hardened steel in the bolt which can't be drilled out. I've only had success with them when I drilled a perfectly centered hole in the bolt to almost the thread diameter so could use a big Easy-out. At that point, you can often fold the remaining bolt shell inward to peel it out, or cut the remnants out with a tap. Looks like enough threads to grab well with visegrips with sharp teeth. Work it back and forth. Once the bolt budges, you are almost home, just need to keep flushing solvent and working it back and forth to flush rust particles out of the thread gaps. They jam in there to keep the threads from sliding. I agree with tapping the end of the bolt with a hammer after solvent has gotten deep in the threads. That helps break up the rust by hydro-shock and flush it out. Similarly the expansion and contraction from heating helps break the rust bond.
 
I was given a 400 B engine that had 6 broken 5/16 and 3/8's bolts. The guy had tried everything and broke 4 'EZ' outs. He was told by so many to just toss the block and replace it. It was a 72 RoadRunner matching number block.

I grabbed 6 flat washers that fit over each bolt. I put some card paper under the washers, with a punched hole, to add just a bit stand off. I then turned my Wirefeed welder up to D heat and 6 wire feed (Lincoln SP155 240V). Welded the washers to the bolts. LOTS OF HEAT!
Let them cool down then using a 5/8's inch thread nut welded that to the washer and the center of the bolt. LOTS OF HEAT!

Rapped it with a hammer dozens of times.

Put my MAPP gas torch to it and got it CHERRY red again and rapped it again.

The Card paper will have burnt off by now. The stand off of the card paper allow some PB Buster to get to the threads and the shock of the hammer to work the threads. It also allows you to slightly tighten and loosen the nut back and forth.

Then used a 1/2 inch drive 'T' handle to turn all 6 out. Clean as a whistle. Ran a bottoming tap in the threads with some PB Buster just to make sure. Gave the block back to the guy.

SO, to the OP, just bring it to a GOOD race shop and they will have that out so quick.
 
Super-Cuda said:
Here's a trick I used.

Cut a slot in the bolt end using a dremel tool.

Then, you will need a flat screwdriver bit that you can use in a ratchet.

Soak the bolt end in penetrating oil overnight .

Use your propane torch to heat up the bolt and get it as hot as you can.

Use the ratchet with the flat bit inserted in the slot you made in the bolt and try moving it back and forth. Do not try to back it all the way out, just work it back and forth until it really loosens up.

Then, soak ii in penetrating fluid again.

Should back out if you take your time.
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Several say here to heat the bolt. I say no. You heat the surrounding area, to expand the locking threads. Most of the time the reason a bolt breaks here is because the shoulder of the bolt is locked into corrosion from the pump or timing cover. I agree with the other options of removal but would like to add one more, if other ways do not work. Set a spacer on you drill bit to go as deep as the pump or cover, less 3/8 of an inch. That should remove the area of the corroded parts. Then you should be able to use vice grips to remove the rest of the bolt from the block. I always use a anti-seize in this application on the shoulder of the bolts.
 
Swinger 340 said:
Several say here to heat the bolt. I say no. You heat the surrounding area, to expand the locking threads. Most of the time the reason a bolt breaks here is because the shoulder of the bolt is locked into corrosion from the pump or timing cover. I agree with the other options of removal but would like to add one more, if other ways do not work. Set a spacer on you drill bit to go as deep as the pump or cover, less 3/8 of an inch. That should remove the area of the corroded parts. Then you should be able to use vice grips to remove the rest of the bolt from the block. I always use a anti-seize in this application on the shoulder of the bolts.
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Steel bolt in an Aluminum bolt boss, yes heat the surrounding areas to expand the aluminum.
Steel bolt in a steel bolt boss, again yes heat the surrounding areas to expand the steel.

But IRON blocks are different. The iron does not expand like steel or aluminum. in Iron I've had more luck heating the bolt cherry red and rap it a few times, reheat cherry red and quench the bolt with PB Buster.
 
Swinger 340 said:
Several say here to heat the bolt. I say no. You heat the surrounding area, to expand the locking threads. Most of the time the reason a bolt breaks here is because the shoulder of the bolt is locked into corrosion from the pump or timing cover. I agree with the other options of removal but would like to add one more, if other ways do not work. Set a spacer on you drill bit to go as deep as the pump or cover, less 3/8 of an inch. That should remove the area of the corroded parts. Then you should be able to use vice grips to remove the rest of the bolt from the block. I always use a anti-seize in this application on the shoulder of the bolts.
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Yeah I agree with your reasoning for why a bolt would break there. But since he got the rest of the bolts out and the water pump off, I still say it probably won't take much to get the stub out, since the aluminum, and the rest of the bolt is already gone... and the corrosion didn't seem to run down the bolt threads into the cast iron..... it's gonna be tough to heat the bolt without heating the cast iron around it if using a torch. If he had just a little more stick out id say to try and induction heater like a "bolt buster" (I actually have the competition model, the "mini doctor" at home) to heat the stub without heating the cast iron as much. I'm not sure there's enough sticking out for that to work though.
 
Here's a set of stud extractors that i have used numerous times in my life as an auto mechanic, when i was doing that job for my living.
Now I'm old and retired, so i do things in the garage, as far as rebuilding brake and suspension parts.
I don't know where i got these extractors, or when i got them.
But most likely off a Mac, Snap On, Matco, tool truck that came by the shop on a weekly basis.
These extractors work quite well if you have enough of the broken stud, to hammer the extractor onto the broken stud.
These have saved me lots of time, and labor using them on frozen, or rounded off, bleeder screws, or flare nut fittings on brake calipers.
I'm sure they work on other things that you can think of.

EXTRACTOR Set 001 (Small).JPG
 
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hemi71x said:
Here's a set of stud extractors that i have used numerous times in my life as an auto mechanic, when i was doing that job for my living.
Now I'm old and retired, so i do things in the garage,as far as rebuilding brake and suspension parts.
I don't know where i got these extractors, or when i got them.
But most likely off a Mac, Snap On, Matco, tool truck that came by the shop on a weekly basis.
These extractors work quite well if you have enough of the broken stud, to hammer the extractor onto the broken stud.
These have saved me lots of time, and labor using then on frozen, or rounded off, bleeder screws, or flare nut fittings on brake calipers.
I'm sure they work on other things that you can think of.

View attachment 1716134356
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So how do they work? How do you use them? Thanks - cruiser
 
cruiser said:
So how do they work? How do you use them? Thanks - cruiser
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You just hammer on the extractor the size that you need for the broken stud, then use a wrench, or socket and ratchet, on the flats of the extractor, and then twist away.
I found them to be quite useful, but I'm sure they also have their limits.
 
volaredon said:
Yeah I agree with your reasoning for why a bolt would break there. But since he got the rest of the bolts out and the water pump off, I still say it probably won't take much to get the stub out, since the aluminum, and the rest of the bolt is already gone... and the corrosion didn't seem to run down the bolt threads into the cast iron..... it's gonna be tough to heat the bolt without heating the cast iron around it if using a torch. If he had just a little more stick out id say to try and induction heater like a "bolt buster" (I actually have the competition model, the "mini doctor" at home) to heat the stub without heating the cast iron as much. I'm not sure there's enough sticking out for that to work though.
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The bolt shank will turn red and expand in the cast iron long before any damage to cast The Idea is to then let the bolt cool, or spray your favorite oil to quench the temperature down. Bolt will shrink away from cast thread bore. As always, it helps to have a torch set with brazing tips for concentrated application of heat
 
cruiser said:
1/4"
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Probably not enough for that extractor. You do gave a little material to weld a nut on though. The ones that break off below the surface are tough to weld a nut on. You have to build up weld to the surface. A welding or machine shop is your friend.
 
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