Can I weld my cam bolts?

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering and Chassis' started by furyus2, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. furyus2

    furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Ok, I've set the alignment on my 69 Dart about 7 times, plus 2 times at 2 different shops. I thought it was the shop's fault the alignment was wrong. So I bought a Longacre alignment kit. Set the alignment, drive car around block, and settings are completely different. Tried new cam bolts, then went back to the original bolts. Tightened them with a breaker bar. Still alignment changes when driving. I thought I read that A bodies are troublesome, and tack welds are needed. Is this a good idea?
     
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    • brian6pac

      brian6pac Well-Known Member

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      Check the lower control arm bushings, if you haven't replaced them I bet they are bad
       
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      • furyus2

        furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Everything is new.
         
      • brian6pac

        brian6pac Well-Known Member

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        When the alignment changes that much something is moving, your saying the cams are moving after you tighten them?
         
      • grjammer

        grjammer LIMONADE FABO Gold Member

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        Were the upper bushings complete with metal washers with nubs on both ends?
         
      • 69hemibeep

        69hemibeep Well-Known Member

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        Did you tighten the LCA's while in the air? If so poly bushings are settling or rubber bushings are tearing. LCA's should be tightened at ride height or you will fight it forever
         
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        • rednesss

          rednesss FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I always try to set them by taking them in too far, and then rotating them out to where I want the camber to be. That way the cam washer is riding hard on the inner adjuster lip. If I hit a pot hole, it's going to try pushing the upper control arm inwards, not out. I'd try epoxy before I welded anything up in there, at least in the future if you needed to take it apart, you could put a little heat to it and melt the epoxy. Trying to get a grinder up in there would be a PITA.
           
        • furyus2

          furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Yes. I guess I have to prove it for sure, by marking the washer, and the mount.
           
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          • furyus2

            furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            This is something I will have to verify. Great idea.
             
          • furyus2

            furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            I can't remember. I will loosen them, and tighten on the ground. But I know that I did the uppers while on the ground. Not easy.
            Will jacking the car up on the lower control arm, and loosen, and re tighten be the same as on the ground?
             
          • HemiSSDart

            HemiSSDart Dartus Interuptus

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            Are you using the cheap chinese cam bolts with flats on two sides of the threads? If so, find some quality bolts, the cheap chinese bolts are known for not tightening and also breaking!
             
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            • JBurch

              JBurch Well-Known Member

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              Your "K" member could be bad. Holes for the LCA pivot bolts crack, fracture etc, not uncommon in Mopars in general.
               
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              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                The only thing you should ever have to do to the UCA camber bolts is torque them to spec.

                If that doesn’t hold them, you’ve got something else going on. I even grease the UCA bolts and the backside of the eccentric washers on my cars so they’re easy to adjust when I set the alignment. Never had them move after they’ve been torqued.

                There were some batches of cam bolts that didn’t have the flat cut far enough down the bolts, so the eccentric washer would bottom out before any clamp force was applied to keep the bolt from moving. But it sounds like you have the same problem with the stock bolts, so something else is probably going on. My bet would be on something other than the cam bolts moving, but that’s just my guess. More likely you’ve got something broken somewhere, or the LCA pivot pins were tightened with the car in the air and the rubber LCA bushings tore when the car sat down to ride height.
                 
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                • Jim Lusk

                  Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                  If you have slightly too much toe-in it WILL pull the front end down and change the alignment (I didn't believe this when I was told this until I saw it on my son's Barracuda). If you set the alignment after setting the car on the ground without using some sort of slip plate or alignment plates you will be off.
                   
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                  • Demonic

                    Demonic Well-Known Member

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                    All good info above. Maybe damage to the body where the uppers go through. Cracks in the K frame sleeve are very common, as others have said. Welding will not fix it, and cause more problems. Something else is wrong.
                     
                  • furyus2

                    furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    I removed them, and put stock bolts that were originally in the car back in.
                     
                  • furyus2

                    furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    I hope they didn't tear. That's a crappy job to have to redo. I will check them this weekend.
                     
                  • furyus2

                    furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    I had the entire K frame out when I restored the car. I knew to look for cracks. Didn't see any. If it was some kind of damage from an accident, I don't think it would be both sides moving. And if it was me, why did the 2 alignment shops have the same issue? I have a 64 Sport Fury, and those adjusters haven't moved in 15 years. I will look at the lca bushings, and the washers with nubs.
                     
                  • Daves69

                    Daves69 Well-Known Member

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                    Like previously said in post 5 these should be there...…
                    upload_2018-7-10_16-19-26.png

                    And from my experience they will likely need to be forced into the brackets as opposed to just slipping in.

                    If the washers are on and the bushings are actually shorter than originals, check if you are bottoming on the end of the flat or threads...….
                    EccentricShoulder.gif

                    BTW, I haven't seen this condition.
                     
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                    • furyus2

                      furyus2 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Thanks for the pics. I will pull the bolts, and check for the washer, and make sure I have flat showing.
                       
                    • jos51700

                      jos51700 Well-Known Member

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                      Just because your parts are new doesn't mean they're good. Check all the ball joints and all that business. And re check your k frame for cracks
                       
                    • mbaird

                      mbaird mbaird FABO Gold Member

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                      I just pulled my engine / k member and suspension to install a new motor and found that one of my UCA bushings was wobbling in its bore. All of the suspension e
                      Was new about 500 miles ago...
                      I had a friend make inside and outside collars for the bushings that I pressed on then tacked to the control arms. The stamped hole for the bushings is the weak point in this design.

                      Hmmm... I thought I had taken pics of them installed ? Must have been with my iPad.
                       
                    • AJ/FormS

                      AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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                      Take a good look at post #19,pic 2
                      I spent almost 6 years as an alignment tech, and I have seen that with brand new Moog bolts.
                      The first time, it was a do-over for me. But it didn't take long to figure it out. I put an extra hardened washer on the head end to pull those flats about 1/8th inch further in and problem was solved. After that, I just automatically installed the washers.
                       
                    • 67Dart273

                      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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                      THIS!! DO NOT EVER weld bolts that are part of an engineered assembly. It changes the temper, spec, tensile strength, etc

                      OP: Review this thread here, allegedly caused by INFERIOR IMPORT CAM BOLTS

                      A couple new pics of my car
                       
                    • RustyRatRod

                      RustyRatRod Just another dumbass. Technical Editor

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                      Exactly my thoughts. He said tightened them with a breaker bar. That's what they're good for. Breakin stuff. You can over tighten a fastener and when you do, they stretch. When they stretch, they actually loosen up.

                      Now, I have done this trick to all of mine in the past. Clean the bolts, cams and frame brackets up good. I mean operating room good. Then, with a center punch, punch a series of divets in the bracket side of the cams and on the brackets where the cams tighten down. This will help lock everything down tight when you tighten them down.

                      All that said, I agree with others in that something is moving somewhere. You could mark the cam bolts so that you can tell when you come back from driving if it's them that's moving.
                       
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