cast iron heads vs aluminum for stroked 340

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Why not consider a hydraulic roller cam. And on a 4" stroked 340 with a single plane, there won't be a lack of power below 4500 rpm. The M1 single plane is rated from 3000-6500 and with a 4" stroke it will be lower than that.
 
My 416 made that 520 h.p. with a .533/.552 flat tappet cam:D:D
 
Buzzmc have you ever ridden in a car with a 4" stroke small block? Believe me a single plane intake doesn't hurt the bottom end. I built a 408 for my Dart, it ran 6.57 in the 1/8 on pump 93. Ported Edelbrocks. 10.9-1 compression and a Victor 340 intake. The cam was 260/264 @ .050, .628/.633 flat solid. It pulled everywhere, no soft or sluggish spots. Btw it was fastest shifting at 6400.

IMO the best headers for a really stout sb are Heddman Huslers. Ryan Johnson proved on a dyno they make more power than TTIs.
 
I've not ridden in a 4"+ stroked SB w/a single plane. But I believe a lot of the numbers I've seen, and most don't bother to post up numbers until 3500+ or so.

I've also been through the single plane on my car... With a predator carb, and the combo was awful - I'm sure it was due to other things not matching those two things, but it doesn't matter. There's nothing wrong with the dual planes, planning on using an Air Gap, it's going to work great, and it will, from all accounts, be better at lower RPM's than any single plane out there. It will also stink at 7500, which is where I won't be going anyway.

The cam choice will be more or less left up to the builder. I trust the man a lot, he's got tons of experience building bigger and smaller stuff. In the meantime I'm going to go off and start educating myself a little more about all the numbers regarding cams though so I'm better informed.
 
I'm also thinking that the dual plane AirGap is the way to go if you want all the torque you can get down low. If you look at the MRL build as referenced to in post #15 of this thread I think you will find that the major difference in the torque down low in post #13 will be the intake manifold. Our engine was using the Edelbrock Super Victor which is a very large plenum and runner single plane.

We used the Super Victor to tame the bottom of the rpm range, yet even with the 3.23 gears it still blows the tires off in every gear when you get on it. Until the owner can get a suspension under the car it's a good thing that the engine is easy to control, you just cannot use a lot of throttle.
 
justinp61 said:
Buzzmc have you ever ridden in a car with a 4" stroke small block? Believe me a single plane intake doesn't hurt the bottom end. I built a 408 for my Dart, it ran 6.57 in the 1/8 on pump 93. Ported Edelbrocks. 10.9-1 compression and a Victor 340 intake. The cam was 260/264 @ .050, .628/.633 flat solid. It pulled everywhere, no soft or sluggish spots. Btw it was fastest shifting at 6400.

IMO the best headers for a really stout sb are Heddman Huslers. Ryan Johnson proved on a dyno they make more power than TTIs.
Click to expand...

Yep, we ran the TTI headers and Summit Racing $136 headers on the dyno. The TTI headers averaged one horsepower more than the Summit headers from 3000-6000 rpm and, if I remember correctly, the TTI headers made 10 horsepower more @ 6,300 rpm. And we only had to pay $526 more for the TTI headers.
 
OK so I just gotta say this;
My 360 with its little 232* cam, on city streets, lights the 295s up in 2nd at up to 50mph (4500rpm), without clutching it.My car weighs 3650,me in it. And I'm at 900ish elev. Granted my chassis sucks(60 fts at about 2.0 ). This S-clone goes 93 in the 1/8th(at 3450lbs) and spinning most of the way.It scares a lot of folks.

So heres the rub;
I absolutely cannot imagine 550/550 in an early A.

If I were to go stroker, in my 2nd gen Barracuda,I would just put my stock Edelbrock top-end on it,and my little 232* cam in it, and see what happens. To my way of thinking,Numbers dont mean that much on the street,at this level, except maybe for bragging rights. Its like going hunting with a cannon; just how dead do you want that animal?

Maybe I'm just not getting it.Oh well.......................... Never-the-less, enjoy!
 
IQ52 said:
Yep, we ran the TTI headers and Summit Racing $136 headers on the dyno. The TTI headers averaged one horsepower more than the Summit headers from 3000-6000 rpm and, if I remember correctly, the TTI headers made 10 horsepower more @ 6,300 rpm. And we only had to pay $526 more for the TTI headers.
Click to expand...

Totally different story with the 340 we tested them on. We had 476HP with the 1 5/8 Summit headers. Went to 1 5/8- 1 3/4 TTI and picked up 40HP and 300rpm. Guess its all in the combo. But we peaked at 7200rpm
 
WOW! ................thats like 8.4%............who knew.

I love my TTIs, and dual 3"pipes. I've never been sorry about that purchase. That system was installed in 99.They even woke up my winter motor; a 73LC-teener.The collectors are leaking now, at the merge point, but, to their credit, they did go through 3 or 4 winters on the teener.
 
As to the aluminum vs iron, Its my understanding that al sucks heat out of the chamber, to the tune of being worth about 1/2 to 1 point of static compression.
On a stroker where compression builds rather fast, depending on your combo, you may be able to get away with that much more Scr before getting into detonation, using aluminum heads.
Thus the engine may be easier and/or cheaper to build with the al heads. It really depends on your compression requirement to achieve your target.
For a DD or pkg thats going to see some mileage, you might be able to reduce your octane requirement, with al, to reduce your running costs.
Its not really complicated, but does require some forethought. But somehow I doubt this applies to your goals.
It did to me and my little 360. With gearing and a sharp tune, I was able to get 32mpgUS, and still go 106 in the qtr.
Of course at 550/550, you're probably thinking "what has this got to do with me?" Well, nothing, today. But what about when we go back to the long gas lines of the previous Gulf wars? It seems to be coming...........
 
MRL Performance said:
Totally different story with the 340 we tested them on. We had 476HP with the 1 5/8 Summit headers. Went to 1 5/8- 1 3/4 TTI and picked up 40HP and 300rpm. Guess its all in the combo. But we peaked at 7200rpm
Click to expand...

Yeah, understood, but this engine basically peaked at 6,000 rpm. If I was building something to buzz over 7,000 rpm I would choose the TTI headers also. Like I said the horsepower difference was starting to get larger at 6,300 rpm.
 
Unless someone says otherwise I have no other choice than TTI headers.

I was surprised to find them available for 63-66 A-bodies. If I had a 67-76, I'd have many choices.

as it is, the headers in the car were custom made. But they are not ideal, and I'm happy there's at least one good choice out there.

Speakking to how dead do I want the animal? Very dead apparently. We all do these things for different reasons. I actually suspect I'll probably turn around in a year and find out how much to mini tub it, get some strip wheels and tires, change out the torsion bars, put in drag shocks, etc.

Right now you nailed it - Bragging rights. I make no bones about it. And who will I brag to? friends. Because this will not remotely be the biggest 340 out there.

What it will be: Well thought out, well put together, with a combo that works, and it will be significantly potent, if not to many, obscene. That's ok. It's my car :)
 
MRL Performance said:
Totally different story with the 340 we tested them on. We had 476HP with the 1 5/8 Summit headers. Went to 1 5/8- 1 3/4 TTI and picked up 40HP and 300rpm. Guess its all in the combo. But we peaked at 7200rpm
Click to expand...

Mike have you ever dyno tested Hedman Huslers against the TTIs? Not the cheap Headmans, the $700 race headers. Hedman did make a set for the early a bodies. They have one tube on each side that go through the inner fender, but are much easier to install than TTIs.
 
Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but What you are doing, many would consider very dangerous. Putting that much power in a soft chassis, is a recipe for disaster.
Far better it would be to put any old 360/4bbl in it and work the kinks out of the suspension,steering and brakes,etc. first. Get the tubs in,tired,geared,and certified.Then, when its finally reasonably safe, you can drop in that monster.
Besides, a torquey 360 in an early A is a lot of fun all by itself.

just saying.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but What you are doing, many would consider very dangerous. Putting that much power in a soft chassis, is a recipe for disaster.
Far better it would be to put any old 360/4bbl in it and work the kinks out of the suspension,steering and brakes,etc. first. Get the tubs in,tired,geared,and certified.Then, when its finally reasonably safe, you can drop in that monster.
Besides, a torquey 360 in an early A is a lot of fun all by itself.

just saying.
Click to expand...

You might have missed it, but he mentioned earlier it had a roll cage in the car.

550 hp sounds very do-able with ported X/J or aluminum. But sounds like X/J heads would have to have a lot more work done to them in terms of labor? and parts?

I'm sort of confused on the reason for keeping the iron X/J heads. Is it:

-less costly because already own nice set? With good reusable? hardware?
-like the look stealth-ness of iron heads?
-combination of both?
-some other reason?

Maybe it would be helpful to figure the cost to do up his existing X/J heads to support 550 HP compared to the other options people have brought up (Indy/RHS X, Edelbrock, Procomp...) ??
 
Yeah I caught the cage.
But no tubs in early As means skinny tires, and he mentioned doing T-bars and such, and no mention of shocks or brakes, so to me thats nuts.Zero to 100 in the blink of an eye, and no way to stop or turn. Hmmm? Much to easy too get into trouble.
I know I wouldn't build that way.
For me, the car has gotta stop and turn first.
Maybe thats just me?
 
Just because he didn't write it out and create a 3 page list of what needs to be done doesn't automatically mean he doesn't have it on his list nor would I accuse him of being stupid enough not to do it and label him crazy.

The list of things to do can be long as heck and I would not write down every last step needed to do on my ride. Even more so under the assumption that I'd be called a reckless idiot if I left some minor detail out.

It's amazing how people will generalize the build plans and the. Be ripped up for faint to mention something outside the scope of the threads intention or question.
IS; "How do I make my engine more powerful?"
Reply.." You idiot, you'll never stop with those stock brakes and weak rear and forget about hooking up on those stock F-70's. Your an idiot for thinking that can go into the tens! Besides you have no safety equipment and ......"

Wait! General engine question remember....?????
 
Heads: If its cost prohibitive to re-work existing heads I'll certainly purchase something different. That's just easy and prudent. I have a hard time believing that's the case though, and I read countless stories of Eddy's that need work out of the box anyway.

The car has disk brakes front and rear, manual steering that works great, a 6 point cage that goes to the frame, sub frame connectors as well. 4 point simpson seat belts too, bolted to the floor and wrapped around the cage behind the seat.

You will find safer cars, but not by a lot without them being dedicated to racing.

I don't mind being called nuts, but you could ask first, just saying.

Now I gotta check out these other headers that were posted.
 
headers are for later a-bodies, not the early 63-66. That's the rub.

And I already have a set of multi-thousand dollar custom headers, I don't want another. The fact is what's in the car was the best I could come up with at the time. The TTI's are definitely better, similarly length'd side to side, which what I have is absolutely not. The driver side header goes to the front of my car today and underneath steering/etc. The passenger side is made much like the TTI with the torsion bar going through the header.
 
buzzmc
My apologies for not seeing the big picture.
And I in no way meant you were nuts; only that it would be nuts to not have brakes or steering on a car with this caliber of engine.Perhaps I could have chosen words.

Rumble
Thanks for rippin me a new one.
 
buzzmc said:
Heads: If its cost prohibitive to re-work existing heads I'll certainly purchase something different. That's just easy and prudent. I have a hard time believing that's the case though, and I read countless stories of Eddy's that need work out of the box anyway.
Click to expand...

Cost prohibitive is only defined by you and your opinion - cuz you'r epaying the bill...lol. Personally it's a lot cheaper to whittle away aluminum than iron, plus a more modern chmber choice that will be required for the power level you want at the rpms you want, plus the lighter weight. If the reason iron is what you want is braging rights - that's the only reason to keep using them in this application when all the returns on investment are tallied. No heads you buy will be ready to go. You have to fix all kinds of things but in most cases it's replacing the stuf that's sub-par, adding a much better valve job, and getting the chambers where you want them. Most of the engines that make these figures will peak at or around 6500 ith a torque peak closer to 4800-5K. That being said - they make plenty of torque right of idle. If you haven't driven a good stroker small block in an A body - do so. I personlly think it's the best street brawler a Mopar guy can get right now. Hands down. They're just that good. On the cam - you will at least need a solid flat tappet, and if it were me I'd go with a custom solid roller.
 
Thanks for all the debate folks.

I guess when we ask what its going to cost to rework cast iron heads, that's when it'll make sense or not to go with Eddy's. I'm not going to waste money for no reason. If we're even close to the same money, that's fine.

I'm just having a hard time grasping the idea that porting some X/J heads w/big valves already in them is going to cost me $2500. But if that's the case, then $1500 heads + $1200ish port work seems like a better option, with an added benefit of looking sexy to boot. As well as the chambers, etc.

Cam's and rockers are just expensive. Blech. But to get where I want its a necessary evil, and that's ok. I'm prepared for that.
 
The problem arises with X/J heads that already have the big valves in them, especially if they are the stock type valves. The seats and throats in the factory 2.02 valved heads are already screwed up. The valves go in the trash can and are replaced with 11/32 stems. The seats are replaced, both intake and exhaust and you get new bronze guides. There needs to be a plug built for one of the head bolt holes that goes between the intake ports and a longer head bolt used. So, you have new valves, guides, seats, heads surface milled, race valve job and porting. Eh, figure only $2,200. Then after all that, the ported Edelbrock heads are probably going to outflow your expensive iron heads.

You never run iron heads in a high performance application unless the rules require them or you just gotta have them 'cause you think they are cool.
 
If you MUST do it with iron, I say get a set of W2s The earlier ones had a std LA exhaust pattern, then they had a dual pattern in later years. I have a set on a 340 right now, with regular headers.
 
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