Clutch not disengaging

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JoesEdge said:
I'm having this problem too. But it's probably because I had to modify my z-bar due to Doug's Headers.

In my case, there seems to be a lot of slop in every linkage in the system. Not sure if you're experiencing the same thing too.
Click to expand...

It was explained to me that every little bit of slop in each linkage piece adds up to the pedal free play.
 
toolmanmike said:
It was explained to me that every little bit of slop in each linkage piece adds up to the pedal free play.
Click to expand...

Along with everything else, don't forget to check the engine and trans mounts as they will allow excessive deflection if broke or loose, especially with "heavy" pressure plates.
Another area of deflection might be the firewall.
 
toolmanmike said:
It was explained to me that every little bit of slop in each linkage piece adds up to the pedal free play.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in my case I think I'm losing quite a bit of clutch fork travel with all that free play. I do not feel any tightness until I'm nearly hitting the floor, and at this point there is no gap between the throw out bearing and pressure plate. I don't plan on leaving it that way.

Anyway... I wanted to point out all the slop and "free play" of the linkages to the OP just in case he hadn't noticed that. There seems to be quite a bit of travel lost there, at least in my case.

I plan to pull my z-Bar out either this weekend or the next and cut the down leg off again to re-position it.

When I do that I'm going to try to take all that slop out of the system by keeping it tight before re-positioning the down leg and welding it back on again.
 
JO
You know they make replacement bushings,and wire bushing retainers right. With a new bushing kit, that takes most of the slop right out.Unless you still have a rubber swivel down on the bottom! Get rid of that asap. I think the steel ones are still available.Whatever other slop there may be, get's taken care of during the free-play adjustment.It sounds almost like your bushing retainer is MIA. I made one out of a coat-hanger, and zip-tied it on. It's been on there a lotta years.
I have never had an issue with a V8 Z-bar not work properly, with any clutch I have ever run. What combo are you running?
 
AJ/FormS said:
JO
You know they make replacement bushings,and wire bushing retainers right. With a new bushing kit, that takes most of the slop right out.Unless you still have a rubber swivel down on the bottom! Get rid of that asap. I think the steel ones are still available.Whatever other slop there may be, get's taken care of during the free-play adjustment.It sounds almost like your bushing retainer is MIA. I made one out of a coat-hanger, and zip-tied it on. It's been on there a lotta years.
I have never had an issue with a V8 Z-bar not work properly, with any clutch I have ever run. What combo are you running?
Click to expand...

Bushings? the plastic half pieces that sort of go around the ball studs? Mine aren't too bad. They're tight-ish. Yes, I do have the wire that holds the bushing and ball stud in place (the one closest to the frame rail. I did have to modify my z-bar for the Doug's headers and it's possible I screwed up.

nm9stheham said:
If you get the leg at the wrong angle, you WILL lose a TON or travel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's what the problem is. I may have got the angle wrong or something. Back to the drawing board.

No one seems to have pictures or a how-to it's all trial and error until it's right. I think the reason why people don't have pictures or a how to is because once they got it right, they left it alone and never looked at it again. lol
 
Well YOU could post what you have. "The angle" in theory is easy. Let's take the upper pushrod coming down to the leg on the z bar. As it moves from "one end to the other," you normally would want the lever on the Z bar to be at 90* to the pushrod IN THE CENTER of the travel. In other words, the extreme "each end" of travel, the lever should be at "equal but opposite" angles to the pushrod.

The same is true of the pushrod on the bottom, to the fork, and the bottom lever. "Same deal."

That may NOT be possible always. But there are other considerations, designed into the factory stuff, that "we" are not aware of. "It just might be" that as the fingers are at the top of their travel, (fully engaged) they take less pressure than when "1/2 way down." Bear in mind these were ORIGINALLY designed, in high performance situations, for a BB cover which had centrifugal weights!!!!

What am I saying? Hell I don't know. But if you don't KNOW that you have each and all the correct factory parts, then you might just have troubles.
 
JoesEdge said:
Bushings? the plastic half pieces that sort of go around the ball studs? Mine aren't too bad. They're tight-ish. Yes, I do have the wire that holds the bushing and ball stud in place (the one closest to the frame rail. I did have to modify my z-bar for the Doug's headers and it's possible I screwed up.



Yeah, I think that's what the problem is. I may have got the angle wrong or something. Back to the drawing board.

No one seems to have pictures or a how-to it's all trial and error until it's right. I think the reason why people don't have pictures or a how to is because once they got it right, they left it alone and never looked at it again. lol
Click to expand...

If the bushings are tight, and the ball-studs are secured and the wire retainer is correctly installed, and the fork is correctly installed on a solid pivot,and the anti-rattle spring is on, then there should be very little slop. Very little.-----------------
I think you're right about the last part! I'm as guilty as anyone. But I sorta have an excuse; My project was finished about 2004, and I never heard about this forum 'til maybe 2013"ish. And since I wasn't documenting anything, I took very few pics.Even only got a couple of the finished car with it's brand new paint. Heck,I didn't even have a computer 'til just before I joined here!------------------------
If I had to rephase my Z-bar, I think I would cut the tube in half, and insert a tight-fitting pin in there. Then reinstall it. Then follow Del's plan, getting everything adjusted to where it needs to be. Then index that cut-line, and finally weld it back up.If you cut it in just the right place, it might be possible to just reverse it, index it and weld it.
I gotta say tho, that even with my very tight-fitting TTIs, the factory Z-bar only required a slight tweak for it to work.The Dougs IDK, but I can't recall anyone else ever remarking about a Z-bar issue. Still,a guy's gotta do, what a guy's gotta do.
 
Here's the other thing about "play" If it's all properly done, as said above, and if the Z bar bushings are proper with little slop, then the (should be a) return spring underneath pulling the fork "off" the clutch, that should "pull" the linkage together in a manner of speaking, to hold it in "slight tension" so that the "slight" play in the joints does not matter.

When the pedal is "going down" the combo of gravity and over center spring does that job in the "other" direction.

It "might" EG simply be an incompatible (incorrect) fork and pivot, or a damaged fork or pivot. I do not remember, anymore, if it's possible to incorrectly install a pivot.

I DO somewhat realize the position you are in...........a swap with ?? correct parts.
 
If all else fails TTI has a modified bar that probably would work..................

[ame]http://www.ttiexhaust.com/PDF/FN55-SHT307ZB.pdf[/ame]
 
JoesEdge said:
Bushings? the plastic half pieces that sort of go around the ball studs? Mine aren't too bad. They're tight-ish. Yes, I do have the wire that holds the bushing and ball stud in place (the one closest to the frame rail. I did have to modify my z-bar for the Doug's headers and it's possible I screwed up.
Click to expand...

Ummm ,, I just walked down to check a car I have here,, to confirm that the wire retainer goes on the bellhousing ball-stud,,

I can't remember a z-bar with the clip on the frame rail ball-stud..

Is it possible your z-bar may be in backwards..??? That would explain a lot.

hope he helps
 

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To the OP..........have you done something as simple as examine the shop manual? I did not check the parts catalog, you can download those, too, over at MyMopar

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67Dart273 said:
Well YOU could post what you have. "The angle" in theory is easy. Let's take the upper pushrod coming down to the leg on the z bar. As it moves from "one end to the other," you normally would want the lever on the Z bar to be at 90* to the pushrod IN THE CENTER of the travel. In other words, the extreme "each end" of travel, the lever should be at "equal but opposite" angles to the pushrod.

The same is true of the pushrod on the bottom, to the fork, and the bottom lever. "Same deal."

That may NOT be possible always. But there are other considerations, designed into the factory stuff, that "we" are not aware of. "It just might be" that as the fingers are at the top of their travel, (fully engaged) they take less pressure than when "1/2 way down." Bear in mind these were ORIGINALLY designed, in high performance situations, for a BB cover which had centrifugal weights!!!!

What am I saying? Hell I don't know. But if you don't KNOW that you have each and all the correct factory parts, then you might just have troubles.
Click to expand...

Everything is factory and original to the car BUT the transmission. Originally it was a 3 speed. So, the same factory bell housing and linkages. I did replace the rod the goes from the z-bar to the clutch fork. Original clutch fork for the 3 speed too. New throw out bearing and McCleod clutch (diaphragm).

I pretty much transferred everything from the 3 speed to the 4 speed including engine, bell housing, z-bar, ball studs, bushings, etc. The 3 speed tranny and clutch linkage worked well when I had the hooker headers in AND with the Hayes clutch.
 
67Dart273 said:
Starting to look more and more like a bad pp
Click to expand...

Yikes! I hope not! I'm going to pull out the z-bar and cut off the down leg again either this weekend or the next.

This time, I plan to try to take the slop out of the linkages while I find the perfect position for the down leg of the z bar clearing the Doug's headers.

I'll take video of it too if I can. I don't know if can this weekend with Halloween and and all.
 
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