Cooling issue, but this time it's to cold...

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PhillH

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I've been putting some miles on my fresh 360, I took it to work this week for the first time and it was about 47 degrees out, cold, yes that's cold for me in FL. I couldn't really get any heat out of the heater unless I was at a stoplight, once I started moving over about 50mph it cooled off and I would just get cold air. I have a new mechanical temp gauge, on a 80 degree day it won't get over 150/60 degrees but drops to 135 as soon as I start driving.
I didn't think much of it since I was just breaking the motor in and I thought maybe I left out the thermostat for the break in. But today I drained the coolant and open the t-stat housing and the new stat is in there, it's a 180 degree.
Rusty, it's a 1971 Scamp with factory 318 radiator, shroud and fan clutch. Now running a 360.
 
I have a new mechanical temp gauge,

Don't mean it's good. I would question it.

Check the water temp in the rad once the engine is warmed up.

Did you check the stat to make sure it's opening at 180*?
 
Right I know you can get bad new parts,it's happened to me before. But even without a gauge if I can't get enough heat to run the heater ??? I will check the water temp with a meat thermometer. I did check the t-stat in water on the stove this morning, it started opening at 185 and was fully open at 210.
I'm waiting a bit to reinstall it for advice here, after that I can put it back in and check the temp in the radiator.
 
Well very first thing is to warm it up and "see what you have." As you yourself said, check with a thermometer that you figure is right.

FEEL the two heater hoses with the heater set up for "full on" heat. They should both be hot, and about the same temp. If one hose is somewhat warm but the other markedly cooler, then you have a coolant flow problem.

Don't discount anything.....pieces of trash caught in the nipples / connections / hoses, and certainly a plugged core.

I would but a new 190-195 Stant and put that in.
 
I would definitely suspect the flow rate of the heater core.
Is it new, or are you sure of the flow rate through it?

If not I would pull the hoses at the engine and backflush that heater core and see what I get out of it.
It's quick to do and answers a pretty important question.
 
So... I checked the t-stat and functioning properly, reinstalled it. Started it up and let it warm as far as it will go idling, 180 is as hot as it will get sitting there. I drive it about 50 miles tonight and it runs about 140 to 150 in traffic, on the highway it runs about 135. Now with these temps I have plenty of heat from the heater, but it is 78 degrees today, if it gets into the 40's again I think the engine will run colder again. I did verify that there is no flow until the stat opens, and then plenty of flow. I checked that the radiator and the temp gauge are in fact reading accurately with a meat thermometer in the radiator. The gauge reads almost exactly the same as the meat thermometer in the radiator.
So what I'm gathering here is that the engine runs cold naturally, and if the engine never got to temp I wouldn't be seeing the flow in the radiator when the stat opens. So then it is getting to temp for the thermostat to open, why are my 2 gauges reading so low????
 
I did not do a beret test on compression, the pistons are spec'd at 9.5. I found out by mistake that 87 octane will absolutely not run in it, but the CR is nothing crazy. I'm running Autolite 66 plugs right now and have about 100 miles on the engine so getting ready to change them, I have a set of AC Delco R44XLS plugs I was going to put in. I have no idea if that's what I need as they are for a stock engine and mines slightly modified, so help with plug selection would be great even if that's not the issue with cooling.
 
Per post #3;"Right I know you can get bad new parts,it's happened to me before. But even without a gauge if I can't get enough heat to run the heater ??? I will check the water temp with a meat thermometer. I did check the t-stat in water on the stove this morning, it started opening at 185 and was fully open at 210.
I'm waiting a bit to reinstall it for advice here, after that I can put it back in and check the temp in the radiator."

Ok, let's say the stat is working correctly. During the warm-up period the water is going around and around inside the engine, going through the bypass, and if the heatercore is open it will be going through there too. This will continue until the water gets hot enough to open the stat. Then the hot water passes through and you know the rest. But if the water never gets hot enough to open the stat, then why is that?
There can only be a few reasons; 1) the engine is air cooling, or 2) the engine is fuel cooling, or 3) the engine is putting all the heat into the exhaust.So;
#1 are you running a 7-blade direct drive fan. That beast will blow a lot of cold air over the engine.
#2 are you running excessively rich? Fuel will really suck the heat out. And #3; how much initial timing are you running and how fast does it ramp up? A lot of timing makes the engine pretty good at burning gas, and all the energy goes into propelling the vehicle. Sometimes the correct amount of timing turns out to be too good. If the vacuum advance is kicking in real early, you may be running 40 to 50 degrees at cruising speed, which the engine will like, and wants. So;
#3 if the first 2 possibilities are dead ends, then perhaps cranking the timing back to something like 12 degrees, may help.

#1 is easy to prove, just swap out the fan for a smaller 4-blade fan and roadtest. If you don't have one, you can put cardboard in front of the rad, or just take the fan off all together, but keep one eye on the gauge!
#2 is also easy to prove. Make sure the choke(if you have one) is coming off fast. At 47*F, 2 or 3 minutes ought to be enough.Unless you have an AirGap,cuz they are a little cold-blooded. Then there's the low-speed circuit. Some people might miss the fact that this circuit is actually in three parts; there is the mixture screws that you mess with. And there is the transfers which are somewhat more difficult to tune. And then there is the fuel level. Start with the fuel level; make sure it is correct and stable.I don't recommend to fiddle with the transfer circuit. That leaves the mixture screws. Here's the deal with those; if your initial timing is wrong, Or if the T-port sync is out, Or if the idle speed is too high then, So is the mixture screw setting! These three are intimately related.And they take us straight into #3. And since the carb will spend a very large part of it's life operating on this/these circuits it's pretty important to get this worked out.When you get it right, ( I'm not saying it isn't right already), but when it's right, the carb will be a dream to drive.

There is another wild card; Humidity. When the humidity gets high, the air is laden with moisture. This moisture,when it passes through the engine will suck a lot of heat with it, and you can see it coming out the tailpipe as water and steam. It will also attach itself to the outside of the engine and suck more heat out.And if you have that big direct drive fan on there,wowsers! It can get so bad that it will form ice in the intake and in the venturies.
Happy hunting, and, All the best to you.
 
I would definitely suspect the flow rate of the heater core.
Is it new, or are you sure of the flow rate through it?

If not I would pull the hoses at the engine and backflush that heater core and see what I get out of it.
It's quick to do and answers a pretty important question.


^^^^^^^^ Xs2

Did this recently to a Cherokee, turned on the water backflushing, there was a moments hesitation in flow, then it spat out a greenish/gray wad of something gelatinous, that dissintegrated against the rad support. - voila. we had heat.
 
Or the thermostat is not closing all the way, NAPA t stats are notorious for that. Last 2 I bought there would not warm up on a cold morning until you drove the car. Swapped out for a stant, warms up idling in the driveway. I would try a stant 195 t stat first
 
I think the point of this thread got a little mixed up, it's not about the heater not working, the heater works fine. It's that the engine didn't have enough heat to heat the heater.
AJ, it makes sense what your saying and I think all the more reason I just want to be done with a carb altogether. I'm thinking of going to the Fueltech injection. I don't mind turning wrenches but I get frustrated with timing and carbs, love the old stuff but some areas I just want it to work.
 
I think the point of this thread got a little mixed up, it's not about the heater not working, the heater works fine. It's that the engine didn't have enough heat to heat the heater.
AJ, it makes sense what your saying and I think all the more reason I just want to be done with a carb altogether. I'm thinking of going to the Fueltech injection. I don't mind turning wrenches but I get frustrated with timing and carbs, love the old stuff but some areas I just want it to work.

Putting Fuel Injection on the motor isn't going to solve your engine problem. A properly operating thermostat will open/close to control the engine temp. I don't care how efficient your cooling system is, if the thermostat shuts completely, you will not have coolant flow through the engine and it will get hot. Either you have an inaccurate gauge (stock or aftermarket?), or a defective thermostat that is not closing when the motor starts cooling off on the highway. Have you tried taking the open thermostat out of hot water and placing it in room temperature water to see if it closes, or just sticks open?
 
A properly operating thermostat will .......

Which is why I said "replace" it. Don't waste labor taking it in and out, replace it. And buy a good one. Stant used to be. If they no longer are, I don't know what to suggest.
 
Last. 2 stant a I have put in worked well. Dealership has the good ones, not sure what brand they are though, they are couple bucks more than parts store brands.
 
Putting Fuel Injection on the motor isn't going to solve your engine problem. A properly operating thermostat will open/close to control the engine temp. I don't care how efficient your cooling system is, if the thermostat shuts completely, you will not have coolant flow through the engine and it will get hot. Either you have an inaccurate gauge (stock or aftermarket?), or a defective thermostat that is not closing when the motor starts cooling off on the highway. Have you tried taking the open thermostat out of hot water and placing it in room temperature water to see if it closes, or just sticks open?

My thoughts exactly.
 
do not waste labor, always test thermostats on stove for opening and closing. 66 autolite is good, why change after only 100 miles? take some plugs out and inspect
 
An overly rich carb and excess humidity will not make the engine run THAT cold. The t'stat is the prime suspect; it is hanging open and that explains all the symptoms, including the cold flow you found at into the top of the rad with the meat thermo. (Somehow, your test missed it being open.)

And that V8 engine will not run particularly cold naturally if the t'stat is working right; the 't'stat controls the lower end operating temp. Replace with a Stant; I prefer a 180.

BTW, plugs should have been pulled at about 1 mile for a quick snapshot of the carb operation!
 
Guys , I tested my old thermostat, my new thermostat, I did this on the stove, with a thermometer, they both functioned perfectly, they both open when specified and they both close all the way. I installed the new one. I tested my new Sunpro mechanical temp dash gauge against a thermometer in the radiator, they both read the same. All that checks out.
 
I pulled 1 and 3 plugs and they look perfect, I really couldn't ask for better, which kinda shocks me.
 
I'd pull them all just in case there is something different front to back.

I caught the check on the temp gauge so feel your gauge is not lying to you. I just have to wonder if your t'stats are being pushed open by the pump pressure; this is something that you cannot test on a stove. They DO have to have a certain spring pressure to keep close in the presence of the water pump's pressure. Only replacing with a good one will determine that. (I can't tell you how to test the spring pressure.)

The fact that you see water flow to the top of the rad at a temp on the meat thermo that is well below the proper t'stat temps says that the t'stat is somehow opening.... or there is some way that the coolant is bypassing the t'stat. Are the t'stats sitting very snugly in the recess in the housing? Have you looked at both the manifold AND the t'stat housing to be sure that there are not recesses in both that can allow flow around the outer edges of the t'stat?

What brands are the t'stats please?

Any thing odd in the head gaskets? Is this a Magnum 360? Just wondering if the head gaskets could have gotten flipped front to back and the coolant is not following the right flow pattern.
 
Guys , I tested my old thermostat, my new thermostat, I did this on the stove, with a thermometer, they both functioned perfectly, they both open when specified and they both close all the way. I installed the new one. I tested my new Sunpro mechanical temp dash gauge against a thermometer in the radiator, they both read the same. All that checks out.

What brand thermostat? Yes they will open and close on the stove, doesn't mean it's closing all the way, especially with a little pressure behind it. I went through he same thing with my 318 Dakota and 3.3 chrysler mini van, unless you get a GOOD thermostat, they tend to hang open. WIch is fine until it cools
Off.
 
If you have a heat gun,, I would do as Del suggests back at post #4, that being accurately compare temps at the 2 heater hoses and the top rad hose immediately after the t/stat opens.. I suspect that 1 h/hose and the top rad hose will be similar,, with the heater hose going into the water pump will be much slower to heat, indicating partial/blockage..

I believe 150* water thru the heater would still give considerable heat.. jmo
 
The fact that you see water flow to the top of the rad at a temp on the meat thermo that is well below the proper t'stat temps says that the t'stat is somehow opening.... or there is some way that the coolant is bypassing the t'stat. Are the t'stats sitting very snugly in the recess in the housing? Have you looked at both the manifold AND the t'stat housing to be sure that there are not recesses in both that can allow flow around the outer edges of the t'stat?

nm9stheham, i think you're on the right track there.

It's not the heater core.

Do you have a stock radiator?
 
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