66dartgt
Well-Known Member
Use spitfire headers, a shorty type - and no fenderwell cutting is needed.
Critique/suggestions on 273 engine build
- Thread starter 64physhy
- Start date
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mullinax95
Well-Known Member
If you go with spitfire headers you can order them now and that way you'll get them the same time next year.
The 340 for my wagon will be getting Commando valve covers (compliments of Leanna's special powder coating) and a Commando chrome air cleaner. Will look just like a 273/235 motor but with 70 more cubes.
kcoyle
Well-Known Member
66DartGT,
Thank you for the info, people like youself are the reason I come to this site. I'll keep it in my file!
Thank you for the info, people like youself are the reason I come to this site. I'll keep it in my file!
madmaximum
CA-HWY9 Road Race Rebel
67 Dart GT 273 Commando. with A833 & 8-3/4 Sure-Grip so :thebirdm:
This engine has lots of good things about it.
-Mech Lifters
-Light Weight Adjustable Rockers
-Hollow Push-rods (Light)
-Forged Crank
-High Compression 10.5:1
-Small Combustion Chamber (57cc)
-235HP 280TQ from only 273 C.I.
My car:
-Bored .030 over (279C.I. or 4.6L)
-Heads Milled twice. (11.0:1 ?)
-Water Flow work Throughout Block & Heads
-Block & Head De-Burring / Mild Lightening
-600cfm Holley
-Dual Exhaust (with the Fucktarded Stock Manifolds)
-I am gasket Matching & Porting the stock Heads & Intake.
-Stock Cam
on 110 it has Pulled the Wheels off of the Ground...
I am planning on Purchasing
-Eagle I-Beam Connecting Rods (I Cooked 4 of the Rods when I spun the Bearings... I was PINNED doing 111MPH for 1 Minute then tried to limp it 25 miles):snakeman:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-6123CB&autoview=sku
Possibly get:
-Hooker Comp Headers HOK-5901HKR for $169 from Summit http://store.summitracing.com/partd...7+4294888795+1005+4294923429+115&autoview=sku
-and the 3" turbo Exhaust kit from summit
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...7+4294888795+1005+4294923429+115&autoview=sku
-COMP Cams 20-246-4 with 270 adv dur .468
I DO HAVE POWER STEERING!!! I hope the Headers will work without Any modification... WHo the F knows though right?!
This engine has lots of good things about it.
-Mech Lifters
-Light Weight Adjustable Rockers
-Hollow Push-rods (Light)
-Forged Crank
-High Compression 10.5:1
-Small Combustion Chamber (57cc)
-235HP 280TQ from only 273 C.I.
My car:
-Bored .030 over (279C.I. or 4.6L)
-Heads Milled twice. (11.0:1 ?)
-Water Flow work Throughout Block & Heads
-Block & Head De-Burring / Mild Lightening
-600cfm Holley
-Dual Exhaust (with the Fucktarded Stock Manifolds)
-I am gasket Matching & Porting the stock Heads & Intake.
-Stock Cam
on 110 it has Pulled the Wheels off of the Ground...
I am planning on Purchasing
-Eagle I-Beam Connecting Rods (I Cooked 4 of the Rods when I spun the Bearings... I was PINNED doing 111MPH for 1 Minute then tried to limp it 25 miles):snakeman:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-6123CB&autoview=sku
Possibly get:
-Hooker Comp Headers HOK-5901HKR for $169 from Summit http://store.summitracing.com/partd...7+4294888795+1005+4294923429+115&autoview=sku
-and the 3" turbo Exhaust kit from summit
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...7+4294888795+1005+4294923429+115&autoview=sku
-COMP Cams 20-246-4 with 270 adv dur .468
I DO HAVE POWER STEERING!!! I hope the Headers will work without Any modification... WHo the F knows though right?!
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Yours is a 67, those headers will not work on a 64 and you may be better off with some other headers. I have those. I'll sell you mine if you want them.
Your heads will probably crack soon enough, they do that.
The 3" exhaust is way too big. 2.5" tops, probably better with 2.25" and an X pipe, but good luck.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
No disrespect to the 318, but I never understood why someone would change to a 318 when they could put a 360 in for around the same cost.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
It depends what you want to do with it. With a 300-325 hp build the 318 is perfect.
340's are not cheap and the 360 has external balance and is not needed for this power level.
The 318 is one of the most dependable engines ever built.
Have you checked out some of the cars running 318's in some of my other posts?
A 318 with a stock bottom end is virtually bullet-proof at this horsepower level.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
You are right, and I agree 100%. (Depends what you want to do with it).
But if you want something with some oomph the 360 would be the choice over the 318.
And like I said right around the same money to build. Actually might be less.
I had a great running 318 in my Dart.
340 manifolds,Ede Performer,Ede 600,Elec Ign,etc. Car was a lot of fun to drive. Havent run my new 360 yet so I cant comment on it yet. But it should be very dependable, and should dust the teen. If it doesnt I would be very dissapointed.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Well consider this. The OP has a very light 64 Barracuda. Even stock 318 low end torque, as you know, will roast the tires.
He already has a 273 sitting there to scavenge parts off of...mainly the crank and heads. If he uses the stock heads from the 273 with bigger valves and a good valve job and maybe does a little clean-up on the ports and valve guide areas, they will work great and save him money. Honestly, the 318 heads are fine, but the 273's offer cheap compression. The 318 crank and the 273 crank are both 3.31" stroke so that is not an issue unless he needs a new crank for the donor 318 and the early 318 and the 273 cranks are forged. The 360 never even came with a forged crank, though you don't really need one at this level. The stock 318 rods are fine too.
On top of all that the 318, with it's way shorter stroke and better rod ratio, revs quickly and freely past 6000 rpm with no problem.
I just have to admit, I really like the 318. It's a great motor and he'll even get better mileage with it.
I suppose an argument could be made that you could run less gear with the 360 and then attain the same mileage, but you would have even worse traction problems.
It's probably gonna come down to money and availability and if that's the case the 318 wins hands down.
P.S. Johnny, you do nice work.
Click this link and take a look at the CARS WE RACE section. click on the 2000 Sebring and the 71 Demon 340. The 340 car won't run with the 318 Sebring. It does weigh 130 pounds more and has less tire...but check them out.
http://www.bobmazzoliniracing.com/
He already has a 273 sitting there to scavenge parts off of...mainly the crank and heads. If he uses the stock heads from the 273 with bigger valves and a good valve job and maybe does a little clean-up on the ports and valve guide areas, they will work great and save him money. Honestly, the 318 heads are fine, but the 273's offer cheap compression. The 318 crank and the 273 crank are both 3.31" stroke so that is not an issue unless he needs a new crank for the donor 318 and the early 318 and the 273 cranks are forged. The 360 never even came with a forged crank, though you don't really need one at this level. The stock 318 rods are fine too.
On top of all that the 318, with it's way shorter stroke and better rod ratio, revs quickly and freely past 6000 rpm with no problem.
I just have to admit, I really like the 318. It's a great motor and he'll even get better mileage with it.
I suppose an argument could be made that you could run less gear with the 360 and then attain the same mileage, but you would have even worse traction problems.
It's probably gonna come down to money and availability and if that's the case the 318 wins hands down.
P.S. Johnny, you do nice work.
Click this link and take a look at the CARS WE RACE section. click on the 2000 Sebring and the 71 Demon 340. The 340 car won't run with the 318 Sebring. It does weigh 130 pounds more and has less tire...but check them out.
http://www.bobmazzoliniracing.com/
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Checked out your site. Looks like you guys are building some quick cars.
If I lived in Florida,I know where I would be spending a bunch of my time. 8)
Funny the twist's these post's take, so I went back and looked at the original post.
He never really told us what he wants to do with the car. So...................
Thanks for the compliment.This is my 2nd Mopar build.
My first a 65 Dart Conv, turned out a Spring Fling Winner out here in Cal a couple years back.Was a great honor. If all goes well, maybe I can get another with the Swinger. 8)
If I lived in Florida,I know where I would be spending a bunch of my time. 8)
Funny the twist's these post's take, so I went back and looked at the original post.
He never really told us what he wants to do with the car. So...................
Thanks for the compliment.This is my 2nd Mopar build.
My first a 65 Dart Conv, turned out a Spring Fling Winner out here in Cal a couple years back.Was a great honor. If all goes well, maybe I can get another with the Swinger. 8)
madmaximum
CA-HWY9 Road Race Rebel
So which size are you headers than? 2.5? That is what I would really like for now.. My car runs on High Octane and Hope. :angel7:
It ran well and I hope it will keep busy. All I ask is to smoke my buddies S2000 a few times to make him look like a fag and Have an Awesome 67 Sportscar. It Handles well and stops like a Mo-Fo!:snakeman:
I have made grown men cry going into corners sideways coming down into 3rd gear... it rolls on 225 60 R14s & 245 60 R15s I love her and I'll see you guys out in Santa Cruz CALI where the Roads are Curvier than the girls...
It ran well and I hope it will keep busy. All I ask is to smoke my buddies S2000 a few times to make him look like a fag and Have an Awesome 67 Sportscar. It Handles well and stops like a Mo-Fo!:snakeman:
I have made grown men cry going into corners sideways coming down into 3rd gear... it rolls on 225 60 R14s & 245 60 R15s I love her and I'll see you guys out in Santa Cruz CALI where the Roads are Curvier than the girls...
clhyer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 3,734
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Just a question for the group - does a 273 have no value? It would seem to me that someone out here doing a resto would be in the market for a nice low mileage 273 that could be test driven and then dropped in their car...
Rather than dismantling the 273 to build a 318, there would be money to get the parts for a 318 or 360. Just wondering...
Thanks,
C
Rather than dismantling the 273 to build a 318, there would be money to get the parts for a 318 or 360. Just wondering...
Thanks,
C
64physhy
Well-Known Member
Well, there are a couple 273's on craigslint san diego for $50. I've seen them for free. So to answer your question, a 273 really has no value. I did see a Barracuda on the net somewhere a few years ago with a 273 that was really making big power, but it had a lot of custom parts and money into it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 273 for just a regular driver.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
So which size are you headers than? 2.5? That is what I would really like for now.. My car runs on High Octane and Hope. :angel7:
It ran well and I hope it will keep busy. All I ask is to smoke my buddies S2000 a few times to make him look like a fag and Have an Awesome 67 Sportscar. It Handles well and stops like a Mo-Fo!:snakeman:
I have made grown men cry going into corners sideways coming down into 3rd gear... it rolls on 225 60 R14s & 245 60 R15s I love her and I'll see you guys out in Santa Cruz CALI where the Roads are Curvier than the girls...
The headers have a 3" collector and, on mine, reduce into 2.5" duals. The headers will be alright on yours, but you will probably give up low end torque as a trade off for top end power. If you run 3" pipes all the way back, the torque loss will be higher. I think a 2.25" exhaust would be the way to go on a 273 and the X pipe is just better than true duals.
Have you considered changing to a little hotter cam? Something with similar to stock duration and a bit more lift? I think that would help more than headers. Also, the headers are gonna add quite a bit of heat under the hood.
As far as your buddy with the S2000, he already looks like a fag!
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Man! That thing looks killer! Do you still have it or did you sell it and move on to the next?
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Still have it.
Its an original Hurst 4-spd car. Slant six,now with Clifford intake & Header.
Ede 500 cfm,electronic ign,disc brake,pistol grip. Didnt have the heart to pull the /6.
D/StockDart
Hurst Shifted
This bothers me in a way, I always hear everyone knock 273's for not being able to run.. Here's my just of my combo, it runs mid 7 seconds in the eight mile, and I drive it about a thousand miles or so every month.
-Block Bored .060"
-Stock replacement Badger (discontinued) .060 oversize 10.5:1 pop up pistons. Valve reliefs cut .110" for P-V clearance.
-Deck milled .030", lined bored, main studs, windage tray.
-1969 340 rods and crank, balanced.
-302 Heads, 2.02 Valves Intake (notched bore for de-shrouding), 1.60 Valves exhaust, ported and polished, angle milled to reduce chamber volume to 51cc's Head flow is at 220Cfm's on the intake @.550lift
-Compression is just over 12:1, and about 240 psi cranking compression.
-M-1 Single plane manifold, ported to match heads
-Quick Fuel built 850Cfm carb, 1-inch open carb spacer
-Custom Ground Solid lifter cam: 320 Advertised Duration, [email protected] tappet rise, .510 lift at valve, 108 Lobe centers (intake and exhaust)
-Stock style Isky replacement Iron adjustable rocker arms, 1.5:1 ratio, Isky hardened Pushrods.
-Headman Hustler Fenderwell Headers, 1-7/8 Primary tubes, 3-inch collector, 2-1/2 exhaust to dual Flowmaster race mufflers.
The car is a 1966 Dodge dart, four speed, HAYS Strip Clutch (10.5 ofcourse), and a 8-3/4 packing anything from a 3.23:1 SurGrip, to a 4.89:1 Spool. But I usually run a 4.10 SureGrip for best overall performance..
With this set up the car is (in my opinion very diveable) for a car of its manor. I run it on 100 octane 76 Pro-Power Unleaded (there is like two gas stations left in my area that still sell this stuff) or 91 Octane with a little VP 110 octane mix. If I'm not beating on it, and its just being driven around it can be driven on just 91 octane (the car has a stock rebuilt 4-core 22-inch radiator and engine temp must be below 180). At 3,200rpm and with a full belly of just 91 Octane my wife and myself drove this car from Los Angles Ca, to Santa Cruz (in Central Ca) about 260 miles each way on our aniversary this year in January. No problems, whatsoever...
I'm hoping this help prove alittle bit that a 273 can be more than a dog.. I will say though before the car was a stick, the slush box made it a bit soggy on the low end, (burnouts where only done from a stand still start only w/no foot braking).. And it took me SIX difrent 273 set ups to figure out how to make it run.. My first 273 only made 145 Horsepower to the wheels! This on makes 371 @7200 rpm's.. Torque is around 300 @ 2500 rpms, and peaks out at 407@ 4600-rpm's I will try and post some pics and a vid sometime this week of this 273 engine in my Dart..
Hope this can help..
mullinax95
Well-Known Member
Tomopar
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Well you got some anti D-Dart dudes who know how to abuse, not use a true 273 / 285hp D-Dart engine. If you go to a 340 or 360 it will not be a true D-Dart. There are so many guys out there with 440's rather than Hemi's because they can't afford better. You know the old saying toys for men or boys. I'm in Florida with a true D-Dart bring on your 340's & 360's My baby is tired of chewing on Mustangs. Put this lip service aside and consider this . . . anyone can buy a 340/360/327/289/283 to hot rod with. Building a true Mopar 273 into a super stock with all the bells and whistles and you have a special Hi-Po from the past. In your car from the past.
sumbitmopar
Well-Known Member
Great job d/stockdart! That's what Hot Roddin' is all about!!! That's why people still run Nail-Head Buicks, FlatHeads, and Poly 318's. It's Kool Stuff! Otherwise we'd all just build 350 Chevy's and be done with it if power-per-dollar was all that counted. But it's NOT, and Thanks God For That!.... just my humble opinion
I just had to respond. If you want a low buck tire-shredder put in a 360. A 318
will still provide a lot of bang for your buck. If you've got your heart set on your 273 go ahead and build it. You can go as radical as your checkbook will allow.
Your 273 will always be impressive for what it is but here will always be something out there that is faster. If you bore it more than .030 have it sonic checked because core shift is pretty common with the early LA blocks.
Egge has cast pistons listed in both low and high compression and Flatlander Racing has forged pistons listed in any bore size and compression althoughI have never talked to either company to find out for sure what the offer. I am
a fan of solid lifter cam. I like the clatter of the solid stick (it's all part of the character of the engine) and depending on how much and how hard you drive it
doesn't require much adjustment. Isky E-4 comes highly recommended. Schneider also has a mild solid lifter stick. Both are available through Flatlander.
You could also contact Comp Cams or Hughes and ask them what they would recommend. I wouldn't go more than a 268/485 in the little motor. A hydraulic roller would be fun but more costly than the solid cam.
The stock crank is perfect as are the stock rods as long as they are both checked, machined and balanced. Don't forget new rod bolts.
The cylinder heads are good for the 273's small bore. Have them surfaced (not milled a bunch) and gasket matched and a bit of bowl blending done. Slightly bigger valves would help but too big is no good for the 273's bore.
The rest of the pieces arent too special, timing chain/gears (all metal and double roller if you wish) Oil pump (I like high volume), a windage tray and/or a deep pan, etc. etc. Stay around 600-650 cfm range for a carb and depending what year your cylinder heads are A street intake to fit. 273 intakes are hard to find. The stock 4-bbl one works ok with a little port matching and grinding but they are quite heavy. For any kind of performance headers are a must. There are many posts on this site about the different brands. Find BJR Racing on this site. He is a guru on small blocks and has built some screamin' 318's. Maybe he has some ideas for a 273? Bye for now and good luck. toolmanmike
will still provide a lot of bang for your buck. If you've got your heart set on your 273 go ahead and build it. You can go as radical as your checkbook will allow.
Your 273 will always be impressive for what it is but here will always be something out there that is faster. If you bore it more than .030 have it sonic checked because core shift is pretty common with the early LA blocks.
Egge has cast pistons listed in both low and high compression and Flatlander Racing has forged pistons listed in any bore size and compression althoughI have never talked to either company to find out for sure what the offer. I am
a fan of solid lifter cam. I like the clatter of the solid stick (it's all part of the character of the engine) and depending on how much and how hard you drive it
doesn't require much adjustment. Isky E-4 comes highly recommended. Schneider also has a mild solid lifter stick. Both are available through Flatlander.
You could also contact Comp Cams or Hughes and ask them what they would recommend. I wouldn't go more than a 268/485 in the little motor. A hydraulic roller would be fun but more costly than the solid cam.
The stock crank is perfect as are the stock rods as long as they are both checked, machined and balanced. Don't forget new rod bolts.
The cylinder heads are good for the 273's small bore. Have them surfaced (not milled a bunch) and gasket matched and a bit of bowl blending done. Slightly bigger valves would help but too big is no good for the 273's bore.
The rest of the pieces arent too special, timing chain/gears (all metal and double roller if you wish) Oil pump (I like high volume), a windage tray and/or a deep pan, etc. etc. Stay around 600-650 cfm range for a carb and depending what year your cylinder heads are A street intake to fit. 273 intakes are hard to find. The stock 4-bbl one works ok with a little port matching and grinding but they are quite heavy. For any kind of performance headers are a must. There are many posts on this site about the different brands. Find BJR Racing on this site. He is a guru on small blocks and has built some screamin' 318's. Maybe he has some ideas for a 273? Bye for now and good luck. toolmanmike
Allways a good subject for discussion! LOL
ddartdude
Well-Known Member
I have about 12 time slips from 1966 when my "TRUE" D/Dart was raced. At that time, it ran a best ET of 12.92 and best MPH of 105. Not bad from a little 273. That was on 7 inch Racemaster cheater slicks and 5.30 gears.
I'd say .... build it.
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