Current Recommendations On Home Wheel Alignment Equipment?

[MDchanic]

I know there are other threads about alignment, and I'm sorry if I'm adding to a confusing mess of questions, but I thought I needed to ask this based on the latest products available and people's latest experiences.

I've got a '64 Dart, all-original, 40,000 miles, drives straight, handles as well as anything without sway bars (better than my 9N tractor!).

Just came back from my local private shop. Dirty, run-down, busy, generally about 5 guys plus the boss, always the same guys for years. They'll have anything up on the racks from heavy dually work trucks to a Porsche or a Lambo. They do my state inspections for me, and I've had them press out a cartridge wheel bearing once, but I generally do my own work, except for mounting and balancing tires (my machine needs an overhaul) and alignments.

The boss had said, "Come by tomorrow at 8" for an alignment.
I came by and drove up onto the rack. The guys scratched their heads a little bit, and the comedy began.
Now these guys are not inexperienced, and one of them is actually older than me (which means he's probably been doing this for 50 years).
The machine was a John Bean, I could not see a model number., looked to be about 20 years old.

• First problem: Nothing before 1981 in the computer. Solution: just pick a random car and pretend.
• Second problem: Wheel frames wouldn't crank down small enough for a 14" rim. Solution: There are other holes to put the grabber pin in, Dummy.
• Third problem: Wheel frames stick out too far from the wheels to be able to fit under the fender openings on the rear wheels. Really. Apparently it's been 40 years since they made a car with a low-cut rear fender opening. Solution: None. No way to fit that sucker on the wheel, whatsoever.
• Fourth problem: When asked to do a 2-wheel alignment, the machine can only do a 2-wheel alignment of the REAR wheels. No way to do front wheels only. And rear wheels don't turn, so you can't measure caster, so... That's it, Game Over, Thank you for playing.

SO, it looks like it's time to get the equipment to do this myself.

I have a barn with a smooth., level concrete floor.

My Question:
Based on recent experiences, and currently-available (new?) products on the market, what do people recommend?

I know there is at least one system that uses a cell phone's leveling features.
I know there are systems involving frames on the ground, etc.
I'd buy an old pair of those doodads with the spirit levels in them, and the aluminum tubes with the projected line, if I could find them – I used to use them when I was younger.
I am not inclined to use a tape measure, ruler, etc., as in my experience it is very hard to find reliable, reproducible measuring points, which means that I have no idea of what I'm actually measuring.

I'd appreciate any input any of you guys have.

Thanks,

– Eric

 

[340sport]

I would contact my local vocational school and inquire about them aligning your car. This can usually be done at little or no cost and it actually gave the students a learning experience that they don't typically encounter with newer cars. Just an idea.

 

[Professor Fate]

Watching this one.
There are NO locals that I'm confident with for this anymore.

 

[MDchanic]

I would contact my local vocational school and inquire about them aligning your car. This can usually be done at little or no cost and it actually gave the students a learning experience that they don't typically encounter with newer cars. Just an idea.

Interesting thought. The local Board of Cooperative Extension Services school is only one diner away from the shop I go to. They may have stuff like that.

– Eric

 

[MDchanic]

Watching this one.
There are NO locals that I'm confident with for this anymore.

I only trusted this guy because they'll let me stand there and talk and help while they work.

Basically zero f*cks given, just like I like it.

– Eric

 

[Icetech]

I used 2 jack stands, twine and a tape measure/or Scale if you want to me more precise for toe-in.... for camber i used this...

And after paying hundreds for alignments i was never happy with over the years i am thrilled with my 25 minute at home job....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09N6WR2MX?tag=fabo03-20

 

[Icetech]

for camber i used that digital gauge and i think went -.4* on each side (didn't write it down and my memory is ****) I put the front upper adjuster all the way out and the back one all the way in then used the back ones to get the camber i wanted.. Thought being to keep the upper balljoint as rearward as possible... i also installed 4 offset bushings.

 

[Icetech]

Ahh here you go.. this is the exact one i used for toe..

P.S. i didn't realize that's Birdsong's youtube channel... he's the guy that restored the general mayhem back to it's 1968 parts....

 

[MDchanic]

http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09N6WR2MX?tag=fabo03-20

[/URL]

Interesting. And half the price of this one.

But it's got a LOT of bad reviews, all saying it produces irreproducible results.

And the more expensive one I linked to uses actual spirit levels, so should be a bit more fool-proof.

– Eric

 

[Icetech]

Interesting. And half the price of this one.

But it's got a LOT of bad reviews, all saying it produces irreproducible results.

And the more expensive one I linked to uses actual spirit levels, so should be a bit more fool-proof.

– Eric

It gave me consistent readings as i tend to check things like 5 times after i do them.. i was going to get the spirit level one but i'm cheap

 

[MDchanic]

It gave me consistent readings as i tend to check things like 5 times after i do them.. i was going to get the spirit level one but i'm cheap

Fair enough.

I'm cheap, too.

I'll seriously consider both of those. Good suggestions.

Thanks.

– Eric

 

[Icetech]

btw.. nice thing bout doing it yourself is you can do it over and over if you have to and it just costs time... my alignment place was like $90 a hit to adjust stuff.....

Also.. i really recommend the moroso offset bushings to get that upper balljoint rearward more.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I use this, and a tape measure. That’s all.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/DECO-Magnetic-Caster-Camber-Gauge-Suspension-Tool-Aluminum,2698.html

 

[Wvbuzzmaster]

I have been home aligning my Duster out of necessity as well and with tape measure, string, the caster camber bumble gauges and just driving it I get it super good myself. And because new torsion bars settle in you must readjust every year to get back to specs. And by doing it yourself you get to a point where you don’t even grab the gauges, just move what you need a little and drive it. And you will mess up a bit here and there and have to correct it but sure beats someone saying it’s “in spec” for $100 and learning that “in spec”’is wrong for your setup or… what spec for what car lol.

 

[72bluNblu]

First problem: Nothing before 1981 in the computer. Solution: just pick a random car and pretend.

Shop didn’t buy the specs. You have to pay for the specs to download into the computer. Based on how many alignment threads on a shop using the factory specs there are on here this is a shop to shop thing.

• Second problem: Wheel frames wouldn't crank down small enough for a 14" rim. Solution: There are other holes to put the grabber pin in, Dummy.

Yeah the tech doesn’t know his own equipment. Bad sign.

• Third problem: Wheel frames stick out too far from the wheels to be able to fit under the fender openings on the rear wheels. Really. Apparently it's been 40 years since they made a car with a low-cut rear fender opening. Solution: None. No way to fit that sucker on the wheel, whatsoever.

There are ways around this, either the shop doesn’t have the equipment or once again the tech doesn’t understand the equipment they have

• Fourth problem: When asked to do a 2-wheel alignment, the machine can only do a 2-wheel alignment of the REAR wheels. No way to do front wheels only. And rear wheels don't turn, so you can't measure caster, so... That's it, Game Over, Thank you for playing.

Again this is just silly. That’s a tech issue not a machine issue, those techs are clueless. There’s no caster to measure on the rear wheels of these cars anyway, there’s no ball joints, king pins or knuckles to have an inclination angle and no steering for it to matter.

SO, it looks like it's time to get the equipment to do this myself.

I have a barn with a smooth., level concrete floor.

My Question:
Based on recent experiences, and currently-available (new?) products on the market, what do people recommend?

I know there is at least one system that uses a cell phone's leveling features.
I know there are systems involving frames on the ground, etc.
I'd buy an old pair of those doodads with the spirit levels in them, and the aluminum tubes with the projected line, if I could find them – I used to use them when I was younger.
I am not inclined to use a tape measure, ruler, etc., as in my experience it is very hard to find reliable, reproducible measuring points, which means that I have no idea of what I'm actually measuring.

I'd appreciate any input any of you guys have.

Thanks,

– Eric

A caster camber gauge, a set of toe plates and a set of turn plates is all I use. The toe plates with tape measures is probably the weakest link there, a tram bar would work better and an optical system would work better than that but with factory equipment like you’ve got you just need to have the toe between 0 and ~1/8” and that can be done pretty easily with a tape measure and toe plates with a little bit of practice.

I use one of these and have been happy with it

SPC Performance 91000 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing

With factory hubs and wheels though a magnetic gauge like TT5.9mag posted would work just fine too.

 

[Robert Dart]

Does the above work on 18" wheels?

 

[toolmanmike]

Mine goes in tomorrow.

 

[72bluNblu]

Does the above work on 18" wheels?

The Fastrax? They sell a version for 13-17” wheels and a version for 18-22”

SPC Performance 91010 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing

I actually do use the 13-17” version on my 18” Enkei RPF1’s, but I don’t set it up on the outermost lip. So it would depend on rim design. The RPF1 design allows the gauge mount to the inner lip with the spokes, although occasionally I do have to reset the car on the turn plates because the spokes are in the way. If I only had cars with 18” or bigger wheels I’d have bought the taller version.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

You need three basic tools:

Longacre Caster Camber Gauges :

Longacre Racing Products 52-78260 Longacre Caster Camber Gauges | Summit Racing

Longacre Toe-In Plates 52-79501

Longacre Racing Products 52-79501 Longacre Toe-In Plates | Summit Racing

Optional:

QuickTrick Alignment Turn Plates 60004 20 deg :

Quick Trick Alignment 60004 QuickTrick Alignment Turn Plates | Summit Racing


If you don't want to spring for turn plates two pieces of sheet metal with grease inbetween will allow the wheels to turn easily during caster adjustment.

I have aligned many cars, trucks and race cars for many years with these tools. I dialed in a friend's '99 2500 CTD last Saturday.

 

[67Dart273]

You don't even really need a camber / caster gauge, you do need a device to indicate accurate tilt, AKA camber. The caster is actually calculated, NOT MEASURED by the gauge. "It's maff. Maff is easy." You need a way to accurately hold the tilt gauge on the wheel/ spindle, or make something that does.

To calculate caster, you take two CAMBER measurements, with tire steered out and with tire steered in, take the difference and multiply by a factor dpending on how far in/ out you angled them. If you use the "common" in 20 degrees/ out 20 degrees, you take the difference and multiply X 1.5. Again, that multiplier CHANGES if you use a different tire angle

You can make accessories to mark the tires, measure toe with tape. Easier with two people. Crackedback has said (I believe) he just blocks short lengths of 2x up against the sides of the tires on pepsi cans and measures across the boards

 

[MDchanic]

nice thing bout doing it yourself is you can do it over and over if you have to and it just costs time...

Agreed. Years ago I had access to a high school auto shop with top-notch pre-laser alignment gear, and I'd go mess with it whenever I felt like it.

Also.. i really recommend the moroso offset bushings to get that upper balljoint rearward more.

I'll keep that in mind.

I'm not doing bushings right now, as they're not worn, but when I do, I'll check those out.

Thanks,

– Eric

 

[MDchanic]

I use this, and a tape measure. That’s all.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/DECO-Magnetic-Caster-Camber-Gauge-Suspension-Tool-Aluminum,2698.html

Another great suggestion.

Thanks!

– Eric

 

[Professor Fate]

Also.. i really recommend the moroso offset bushings to get that upper balljoint rearward more.

Does Moroso make offset bushings now? I thought Moog was the sole source with their "Problem Solver" bushings.

 

[MDchanic]

Shop didn’t buy the specs.

He's not the kind of guy who would.

Yeah the tech doesn’t know his own equipment. Bad sign.

I'm sure he knows it within the narrow range of the types of cars he does every day.
But it was obvious that he didn't really know it.

There are ways around this, either the shop doesn’t have the equipment or once again the tech doesn’t understand the equipment they have

Yeah, I'm sure there are "flatter" frames that fit to the edges of the rims and could get under the fenders, but they didn't heve 'em.

Again this is just silly. That’s a tech issue not a machine issue, those techs are clueless. There’s no caster to measure on the rear wheels of these cars anyway, there’s no ball joints, king pins or knuckles to have an inclination angle and no steering for it to matter.

It seemed to me to be nonsensical that you could ask the machine to align the rear wheels only, but not the front wheels only, but it's not my shop and not my machine, and I don't actually know that machine, so there wasn't much for me to say that didn't sound like, "Of course you can do that, you idiot."

And, yes, the machine knew there was no caster on the rears, too. That's why it wouldn't allow it.

A caster camber gauge, a set of toe plates and a set of turn plates is all I use. The toe plates with tape measures is probably the weakest link there, a tram bar would work better and an optical system would work better than that but with factory equipment like you’ve got you just need to have the toe between 0 and ~1/8” and that can be done pretty easily with a tape measure and toe plates with a little bit of practice.

I use one of these and have been happy with it

SPC Performance 91000 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing


With factory hubs and wheels though a magnetic gauge like TT5.9mag posted would work just fine too.

Another good product suggestion.
I'm fine with the magnetic ones for my older American cars, but there is definitely logic to getting one I could use on my later cars as well.

And I used the aluminum tube optical / tram assemblies "back in the day," so I'm familiar with them.

Thanks,

– Eric

 

[Icetech]

Does Moroso make offset bushings now? I thought Moog was the sole source with their "Problem Solver" bushings.

ahh sorry..... my brain is mush.. it is moog..