Engine Build Ideas...PLEASE HELP.

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in 340s defense, theres a $500 difference just for the cam and lifters, then you gotta buy rocker arms and those re gonna be $400 or better probably compared to a $150 set you could run with a hyd or your stockers. I havent sat down and done the math but I believe the difference is close to $1000 when all said and done. I dont know about all of you but $1000 is a lot of money to me. Thats more than half what I spent on my 360!
 
Have run 273 adjustables and used Iron cranes that were bagged for $75 or less with a small roller cam. No need for roller rockers costing insane amounts of money.

When you start getting over the xe268, it's smart to run adjustables anyways, so that is a wash.

I won't respond to anything else regarding the hijack of the thread.
 
Check out the builds BJR has in the archives. A couple ideas there to look at. that kit looks pretty good for what your looking to do. how much are you looking to put into it and what other components are you looking to set this motor up to?
 
charger70 said:
Hey Adam. you might be a little short.
I picked up the Oct Popular Hot Rodding today and they have a build of an LA 318 with EQ heads.
I havent read the artical in depth yet.
The quick is zero deck, Comp XE275hl, 1.6 rockers, 1.92/1.625 out of the box EQs, EDDY Performer RPM airgap, Holly 750 and MSD.
Dynod 402hp@6300
Then they threw on a pair of 2.02 ported EQs and got 425@6200

Makes me wanna build a 360 and sell the 340 for seed.
Click to expand...


I said my build should be good for around 425hp, Its the same build as what you posted buy with a 360 not a 318. I dont think the 360 is going to make less power.
 
AdamR said:
Not that I believe everything I read but here's a good article. 392hp with bolt ons using an XE268.
http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-738676943
Click to expand...

I copied this same build for a motor to put in my dad's 68 Convertible. This is a great street car motor. Will idle at 800rpms all day with a nice sound and pull hard from idle to 6K rpms. The bottom end is stock except for some KB 340 10.5:1 Hyper pistions. The heads are factory J heads with 2.02/1.60 with NO port work just a good valve job. The rest of the bolt-ons are the XE268, Edelbrock RPM, and Dynomax headers, Edelbrock 750. I did "Splurge" for a set of Proform roller rockers though! LOL. The car is a 904 auto with 3.55's. It is a very quick little car that you can start and drive anywhere.

If running 9's is your goal, then do something else. If you want a very reliable, good sounding, hard pulling, street motor..... This is a great recipe.
 
AdamR said:
I said my build should be good for around 425hp, Its the same build as what you posted buy with a 360 not a 318. I dont think the 360 is going to make less power.
Click to expand...

Right,
you read my reply backwords from how I intended.
If they got 425 outa the 318,
I meant your estimate was short, You coulda have gone higher.
 
AdamR said:
Why would you say that ?

Not that I believe everything I read but here's a good article. 392hp with bolt ons using an XE268.
http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-738676943

I wouldnt bother with the stroker short block unless you are going to spend some cash on heads.
Click to expand...

Haney said:
I copied this same build for a motor to put in my dad's 68 Convertible. This is a great street car motor. Will idle at 800rpms all day with a nice sound and pull hard from idle to 6K rpms. The bottom end is stock except for some KB 340 10.5:1 Hyper pistions. The heads are factory J heads with 2.02/1.60 with NO port work just a good valve job. The rest of the bolt-ons are the XE268, Edelbrock RPM, and Dynomax headers, Edelbrock 750. I did "Splurge" for a set of Proform roller rockers though! LOL. The car is a 904 auto with 3.55's. It is a very quick little car that you can start and drive anywhere.

If running 9's is your goal, then do something else. If you want a very reliable, good sounding, hard pulling, street motor..... This is a great recipe.
Click to expand...

Nice solid build Haney! :thumrigh:

I wonder what the final numbers would have been using a 750-850 holley on that 340. I know that in some cases there has been a 30hp jump going from the ede/avs style to a holley. Wouldn't be surprised if the final with a holley had been in the 410-420 range.
 
Someone asked what I was looking to spend.

Ha good question. That is why I am saking opinions. I don't have any money right now, so the cheaper the better, but I will be saving over the next while, I would like to do it under $2000, but I don;t think that is doable.

I like to ask, that way I can do my research, as I figure things out, I get more excited, and will wnat to save more.

What are the abreviations/codes, everyone is typing?

Phil
 
Here is what Don at FBO helped me build http://4secondsflat.com/.
Callies 3.79 crank
CompStar 2.100 x 6.125 rods
Diamond Custom Pistons 9.3 to 1
Joe Mondello Cryogenically Frozen Alecular bearings
Racer Brown flat Tappet Cam ST-21( Duration @50 254
554/520) and lifters
Racer Brown Magnum Rocker Arms
Cometic Gaskets
Complete New Magnum/LA heads Stage 3 (EQ heads)
EV-8 5/16 stem stainless valves
Hardened Exhaust seats
Pro Comp 3 angle valve job
Springs
Retainer
Machined 10* locks
650 mighty demon
air gap
All the motor that I need.
 
mrtires24 said:
Someone asked what I was looking to spend.

Ha good question. That is why I am saking opinions. I don't have any money right now, so the cheaper the better, but I will be saving over the next while, I would like to do it under $2000, but I don;t think that is doable.
Click to expand...
I dont think you will come close to 400hp for $2000
 
AdamR said:
I dont think you will come close to 400hp for $2000
Click to expand...

Not picking on you, but that isn't necessarily true, for one factory heads will support around 390hp @190cfm w/1.88 valves and around 420hp@205cfm w/2.02.
And with that, 2 It's all combo.
And 3, summit rebuild kit 9.1 comp.$360 or so dollars,MP cam& lifters $169 springs $89, timing chain $55, gaskets from jegs $35, rings $60, dist drv gear $29, $729+ tax [option 2.02 valves home porting$90=$819+tax]
Clean block & HEADS $80, Bore and hone w/trq plate $175, square deck $75, grind crank & $75-$90, valve job $175, balance $125, surface hd's $75 pair, install guides $110p/l, Seats + labor $140, positive stem seals $25 and cutting for them $40.
Reuse everything you can and clean your self=======$1929 w/o tax. these are average Machine shop/part cato prices where I live.
 
3404spdvaliant said:
Not picking on you, but that isn't necessarily true, for one factory heads will support around 390hp @190cfm w/1.88 valves and around 420hp@205cfm w/2.02.
And with that, 2 It's all combo.
And 3, summit rebuild kit 9.1 comp.$360 or so dollars,MP cam& lifters $169 springs $89, timing chain $55, gaskets from jegs $35, rings $60, dist drv gear $29, $729+ tax [option 2.02 valves home porting$90=$819+tax]
Clean block & HEADS $80, Bore and hone w/trq plate $175, square deck $75, grind crank & $75-$90, valve job $175, balance $125, surface hd's $75 pair, install guides $110p/l, Seats + labor $140, positive stem seals $25 and cutting for them $40.
Reuse everything you can and clean your self=======$1929 w/o tax. these are average Machine shop/part cato prices where I live.
Click to expand...

now were talking. I am obviously going to be well over $2000 if I go with a stroker kit, or new heads, but I don't really want to do that if I don't have to. My 340 is out of a 72, so Ii don't think it has the high flow heads.

the list you posted above is great, i don't like taking a block or something to a shop and saying do everything it needs. I want to know what it needs, and what each thing is exactly. Its stupid if someone says there engine was rebuilt, but doesn't know anything about the rebuild. I'll have to go to the books. :read2:

there was a post somewhere of a trricked out 318 for around $2000or something. some guy with a drag race car as his avitar. It was an interesting thread, and probuced some interesting numbers

Here is another thing I am interested in doing. I remember a article of a kid that bought a fag leter mustang with no motor. He bought a $200 engine from a wreker out of an old T bird or something. He then bought a turbo from either a deisel truck, or a tracktor off ebay, and made it to fit his SB. The engine was just a stock tired SB with a turbo and it whent like stink on the track. I have enought engines, I thought I might give that a shot for kicks too.

Whats your guys's opinion.

Like I said in my posts, I am just researching, and want ideas to be kicked around.

what I have learned is for $2000 rebuild I will be around 350-390 HP
if I go with heads or stroker it will set me back another $2000 aprox for a total of $4,000, but I will be around 450 HP, correct?

throughing in a 318, and hooking up a turbo to it might be kinda cool too though. and the costs might be better cause I heard that lower compresion is better for a turbo. I could be wrong, I am just learning here.

Phil:read2:

here is one link, but its not the one I was looking for
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_0703_1992_ford_mustang_convertible/index.html

I hate mustangs
 
3404spdvaliant said:
Not picking on you, but that isn't necessarily true, for one factory heads will support around 390hp @190cfm w/1.88 valves and around 420hp@205cfm w/2.02.
And with that, 2 It's all combo.
And 3, summit rebuild kit 9.1 comp.$360 or so dollars,MP cam& lifters $169 springs $89, timing chain $55, gaskets from jegs $35, rings $60, dist drv gear $29, $729+ tax [option 2.02 valves home porting$90=$819+tax]
Clean block & HEADS $80, Bore and hone w/trq plate $175, square deck $75, grind crank & $75-$90, valve job $175, balance $125, surface hd's $75 pair, install guides $110p/l, Seats + labor $140, positive stem seals $25 and cutting for them $40.
Reuse everything you can and clean your self=======$1929 w/o tax. these are average Machine shop/part cato prices where I live.
Click to expand...

You forgot a few things
Pushrods & rocker gear
Retainers & locks $65
Cam bearings and install $50
Recon rods and rod bolts $150
replacement valves 5-10ea
Press pistons on rods $50
magnaflux as required (crank, heads, block) $50
and there are plenty of incidentals that you need to buy as well.
 
mrtires24 said:
now were talking. I am obviously going to be well over $2000 if I go with a stroker kit, or new heads, but I don't really want to do that if I don't have to. My 340 is out of a 72, so Ii don't think it has the high flow heads.

the list you posted above is great, i don't like taking a block or something to a shop and saying do everything it needs. I want to know what it needs, and what each thing is exactly. Its stupid if someone says there engine was rebuilt, but doesn't know anything about the rebuild. I'll have to go to the books. :read2:

there was a post somewhere of a trricked out 318 for around $2000or something. some guy with a drag race car as his avitar. It was an interesting thread, and probuced some interesting numbers

Here is another thing I am interested in doing. I remember a article of a kid that bought a fag leter mustang with no motor. He bought a $200 engine from a wreker out of an old T bird or something. He then bought a turbo from either a deisel truck, or a tracktor off ebay, and made it to fit his SB. The engine was just a stock tired SB with a turbo and it whent like stink on the track. I have enought engines, I thought I might give that a shot for kicks too.

Whats your guys's opinion.

Like I said in my posts, I am just researching, and want ideas to be kicked around.

what I have learned is for $2000 rebuild I will be around 350-390 HP
if I go with heads or stroker it will set me back another $2000 aprox for a total of $4,000, but I will be around 450 HP, correct?

throughing in a 318, and hooking up a turbo to it might be kinda cool too though. and the costs might be better cause I heard that lower compresion is better for a turbo. I could be wrong, I am just learning here.

Phil:read2:

here is one link, but its not the one I was looking for
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_0703_1992_ford_mustang_convertible/index.html

I hate mustangs
Click to expand...

I'm just bumping this to this page, I find things get overlooked when they are the last post on the previouse page.

Phil
 
crackedback said:
You forgot a few things
Pushrods & rocker gear
Retainers & locks $65
Cam bearings and install $50
Recon rods and rod bolts $150
replacement valves 5-10ea
Press pistons on rods $50
magnaflux as required (crank, heads, block) $50
and there are plenty of incidentals that you need to buy as well.
Click to expand...

there is prob close to $500 of nickle and dime stuff in any major work on a vehicle.

Phil
 
mrtires24 said:
there is prob close to $500 of nickle and dime stuff in any major work on a vehicle.

Phil
Click to expand...

Phil,

If you are serious about this, go to your local shop you use and ask point blank, what's it going to run to do "X"? Asking a bunch of people that don't live in your area is not really going to assist you in making a choice or a realistic cost estimate. I do know that some of the quoted machining costs are a bit lower than where I live. Every area has a prevailing rate and it's not consistent with the cost of living. Some So Cal places are less expensive than small town prices.

If you cut corners, you could possibly build something for 2K.
 
crackedback said:
Phil,

If you are serious about this, go to your local shop you use and ask point blank, what's it going to run to do "X"? Asking a bunch of people that don't live in your area is not really going to assist you in making a choice or a realistic cost estimate. I do know that some of the quoted machining costs are a bit lower than where I live. Every area has a prevailing rate and it's not consistent with the cost of living. Some So Cal places are less expensive than small town prices.

If you cut corners, you could possibly build something for 2K.
Click to expand...

I won't be doing anything locally except machine work. I'm from canada, and parts are expensive. Just researching, I'm not going to talk locally till I am ready. we are talking winter that I may be doing this...it isn't even fall yet!

:)

Phil
 
crackedback said:
You forgot a few things
Pushrods & rocker gear
Retainers & locks $65
Cam bearings and install $50
Recon rods and rod bolts $150
replacement valves 5-10ea
Press pistons on rods $50
magnaflux as required (crank, heads, block) $50
and there are plenty of incidentals that you need to buy as well.
Click to expand...

Your right I sure did...
I added rings when they actually come in the kit along with Cam bearings.lol install cam bearings$40 [I install these my self as should every one else]IW
Locks $14 [something you should always replace]
Your price on the rods is roughly what it costs here $ 114 w/replacement bolts+ 40 to press pistons.
Is he gonna rev it past 6000rpm cause if I remember right my stock 340 ran 6000 all day [as it was advertised] and never broke a push rod or rocker so I would reuse these if the funds weren't there.
The idea with the valve was to reuse the exhausts and just upgrade to the 2.02 on the intake which was included in my list.
SO $2137 and you have a long block [which is the main objective]
after that it's pidly stuff, intake plugs, carb, wires ect.
 
Wow, this sure spiraled a bit..
340, I still think you're a little too general, but everybody's got opinions. Here's a few more of mine.

The 340 with the FM kit is a good solid rebuild kit. There are some major differences in machining that 340 may not be aware of, at least not by his postings (again, maybe a little too green at it or just holding back...). That kit uses heavy forged pistons, and in a cast crank 340 like the '72 should be, you will pay more to internally balance it. Mallory slugs are close to $100 for the amount you'll need. The heads when looked at by any shop that does real performance work will need at least $1000 worth of parts and work if two things are true: They are stock used heads; the shop uses modern equipment. Reason being the equipment that uses a straight pilot to center the tooling for the valve job needs a perfect guide. He has money in there, but not enough IMO for seats and guides. You don't ned the small valve seals with a single spring setup. Then you got the parts, which for me are valves, springs, retainers, locks, guides, and seats. Using cheaper stuff will keep some cost down. But a $175 valve job as not going to be very good. No exceptions to that. Balancing costs a lot more than his numbers show. As does most operations even on older equipment near me. but I'm in CT and breathing is expensive here. The main bores can be checked, may not need align honing. Dont replace the main bolts. I wouldnt run an MP cam unless someone force me to. The tools to properly measure and assemble the engine will run another few hundred for cheap stuff, and dont forget the lifter bore burnishing tool and the dist drive bushing burnisher. Have a shop install the cam bearings. the tools to do it are fairly expensive and not worth it for one or two rebuilds if you're on a budget. DO NOT HOME PORT YOUR HEADS!!! Get that one?In any event, a stock rebuild plus a few tricks and a cam is what you want. In most areas of the country will run somewhere between $3000 and $4500 depending on the shop and the parts chosen. A 4" arm engine will run about 25% more. In terms of HP/$... I use 300-350 - $11/hp 350-450 -$12/hp 450-550 - $15/hp 550+ budget $17/hp or more. The smaller the displacement, the more cash it takes to get the higher levels. I should also say there are ways to cut corners if you are savvy. The 440 in my bussies Cuda cost $1700 without the 6pack, and makes 480hp, and 530tq at 3200rpm on pump fuel witha hydraulic cam. It's not "all new" or anywhere near perfect, but you might be surprised what a good engine guy can do with mild parts. So anyways, flame away... It's a fun read :)
 
No flaming and I certainly am no engine builder, but I did note one mistake in your post ... the '72 340 was a forged crank ... at least half to most of the way through the year. Did not read all the posts to see if the OP noted specifically he has a cast crank, but my '72 (engine replaced with a crate 360 since; 340 in garage) is forged.

~Bill
 
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