Front end feels really sloppy

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D

DQ81

'73 Dart
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
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Location
The Netherlands (Holland)
I just pulled all my steering components, replace the manual box with power and put in a much faster engine.

My front end feels sloppy, not so much that the steering is unresponsive but it just doesn't feel tight.

It's not the power steering.

Also whenever I brake there's a clunk sound from the left front side.

All of the joints are good, just been greased etc.

I suppose my shocks work fine but are regular oil filled.

What are you guys running?

What can I do to upgrade my front suspension? Tighten things up?
 
it needs all the bushings replaced !! there most likely 40 yrs old or there abouts (enjoy) how about the ball joints ,inner ,outer tie rod ends, drag link ,idler arm. good alinement ,correct ride height .
 
that clunk sound could be anything but most likely upper arm bushing or strut rod bushing.
 
DQ81 said:
I just pulled all my steering components, replace the manual box with power and put in a much faster engine.


It's not the power steering.



I suppose my shocks work fine but are regular oil filled.

What are you guys running?
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so you are saying you replaced the manual steering box with a power box?
then you say it is not power steering. if i understand this right then you are running a power steering box with no power attched to it. this will kill the box overtime. shocks are regular oil filled. that is another problem. you need to go to a modern shock filled with gas. kyb's are what most are running and it is worth the upgrade.
 
7demon2 said:
so you are saying you replaced the manual steering box with a power box?
then you say it is not power steering. if i understand this right then you are running a power steering box with no power attched to it. this will kill the box overtime. shocks are regular oil filled. that is another problem. you need to go to a modern shock filled with gas. kyb's are what most are running and it is worth the upgrade.
Click to expand...

No I'm saying the lighter power steering isn't the feeling I'm describing as sloppy... Why would I run a power box without a pump? That's even heavier than a manual box.

KYB's are a good choice, and bushings too...

Any pariticular favorite online parts suppliers for A-bodies?

Thanks,

David
 
DQ81 said:
No I'm saying the lighter power steering isn't the feeling I'm describing as sloppy... Why would I run a power box without a pump? That's even heavier than a manual box.

KYB's are a good choice, and bushings too...

Any pariticular favorite online parts suppliers for A-bodies?

Thanks,

David
Click to expand...
Select from the banner on the right of the page, PST. They are a sponsor here at FABO.
 
We have a $100-off sale on Super Front End Kits for the month of October. We also have KYB shocks for $159 for a set of 4.

The Super kit with rubber bushings is $279 (normally $379), and the kit with Polygraphite® bushings is $339 (normally $439). Kits include:

2 Upper Ball Joints
* 2 Lower Ball Joints
* 2 Strut Rod Bushings
* 2 Outer Tie Rod Ends
* 2 Stabilizer Links (Bolt and sleeve type links only)
* 2 Inner Tie Rod Ends
* 1 Idler Arm
* 4 Upper Inner Control Arm Bushings
* 2 Lower Inner Control Arm Bushings
* 2 Sway Bar Bushings (for most models)
* Control Arm Bumpers (for most models)
* 2 Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves
* 4 Upper Cam and Bolt kits
 
DQ81 said:
No I'm saying the lighter power steering isn't the feeling I'm describing as sloppy... Why would I run a power box without a pump? That's even heavier than a manual box. David
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i didn't think you were talking about that...it seemed like it , but i was thinking the same thing..lol!!! there was a thread on here once along time ago about a guy that was going to actually run the power box with the belt off of the pump because he liked the feel better that way. that is really the only reason i brought it up.. firm feel can rebuild your box and add more firmness to it by stages. check their site for more info on it http://www.firmfeel.com/
 
I noticed when I replaced my stock PS box with a Firm Feel Stage 2 it was a lot more numb than I expected and still a little over-boosted. After a couple thousand miles though I think it's broken in a bit and is now a lot firmer; you may just have to break-in the steering box.

One thing nobody mentioned yet, did you get the alignment done to the proper specs? Some may argue on camber and toe but you should have as much positive caster as possible. If the alignment isn't correct it'll really screw up the handling characteristics of the car.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
I noticed when I replaced my stock PS box with a Firm Feel Stage 2 it was a lot more numb than I expected and still a little over-boosted. After a couple thousand miles though I think it's broken in a bit and is now a lot firmer; you may just have to break-in the steering box.

One thing nobody mentioned yet, did you get the alignment done to the proper specs? Some may argue on camber and toe but you should have as much positive caster as possible. If the alignment isn't correct it'll really screw up the handling characteristics of the car.
Click to expand...

I must admit it hasn't been aligned yet, since replacing it...:-\"

I'm still looking for a shop in this whole COUNTRY that can do a US vehicle properly...

7demon2 said:
i didn't think you were talking about that...it seemed like it , but i was thinking the same thing..lol!!! there was a thread on here once along time ago about a guy that was going to actually run the power box with the belt off of the pump because he liked the feel better that way. that is really the only reason i brought it up.. firm feel can rebuild your box and add more firmness to it by stages. check their site for more info on it http://www.firmfeel.com/
Click to expand...

Haha, we were on the same page then. I'll check out firmfeel, but I think I oughta get me a full front end set first...

PST:

Do you ship to Europe?
 
I did a full front build on another (old) car I have and am doing it again on my '68 Dart GTS as we speak.

I can't stress enough:

- how different (better/smoother/more responsive) it will feel when you're done

- how much safer the car will be

- how much longer your tires will last 8 ^)

btw, did you do any "seat of the pants" measuring between the front tires? We use to do this, just to get a car from the garage, to the alignment shop. After we replaced tie rod ends (or any steering components), we'd measure from side to side, on the front of the tires, then the back, (9 o'clock and 3 o'clock as you look at the tire from the position of staring at the hub cap))choosing the same spot each time.

Does that make sense?

It's a lot easier (almost necessary) to have two people).

It'll give you a rough (I do mean rough) idea of whether your close to being in alignment (toe in/out only). If you haven't done it yet, then after the front end rebuild, you will, just to get it to the shop you choose to do the alignment.

Pete
 
DQ81 said:
I must admit it hasn't been aligned yet, since replacing it...:-\"

I'm still looking for a shop in this whole COUNTRY that can do a US vehicle properly...
Click to expand...

I think we've found your problem. Get the alignment done first and if it still isn't working like it should then start looking elsewhere. When I rebuilt my front end I eyeballed the adjustments the best I could and I still managed to scuff up my old tires just driving a couple miles to the alignment shop.

Try to find a reputable shop with someone who as experience doing alignment on cars with torsion-bar suspension. Even if they haven't done an old A-body Mopar the setup is pretty simple and there haven't been too many variations of the torsion-bar setup over the decades.
 
I did the PST kit and disk brake upgrade along with heavy duty torsion bars and a quick ratio steering box in the 67 barracuda.
I also bought and installed the LCA plates that weld onto the bottoms to keep them from wanting to separate.

I eyeballed the alignment as best as I could and the car tracks staight with no uneven tire wear.
I think I just got lucky with the eyeballing.

There are some webiste that can help you align it without a rack, but I don't have them handy so maybe you can google something.

I will say with the skinnies on the front and the fatties on the rear this car handles suprizingly well, due to the front end kit and the heavy torsion bars.

I was taking some tight corners with a group of classic chevy's that were I just happened to be following to a show and I felt bad for them as my car was hugging the corners tight and their cars were all over the place with the inside front tire always wanting to lift off the ground it looked like, but mine was hugging nicely.

I can imagine what this car would do with some fat tires out front and independent suspension, but that's not gonna happen.
 
pgkeating said:
Does that make sense?

It's a lot easier (almost necessary) to have two people).

It'll give you a rough (I do mean rough) idea of whether your close to being in alignment (toe in/out only). If you haven't done it yet, then after the front end rebuild, you will, just to get it to the shop you choose to do the alignment.

Pete
Click to expand...

That makes sense, I eyeballed the allignment too, also measering the tierods and keeping them as close in length to eachother as possible. It tracks straight but I'm getting it aligned ASAP.

cudaspaz said:
I eyeballed the alignment as best as I could and the car tracks staight with no uneven tire wear.
I think I just got lucky with the eyeballing.

There are some webiste that can help you align it without a rack, but I don't have them handy so maybe you can google something.

I can imagine what this car would do with some fat tires out front and independent suspension, but that's not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

I'm runnin' 225/55/15's up front, and 295/50/15's in the rear, it can hug a corner pretty well...

Can't wait to get all the front end stuff, tearing stuff like that down only replace it with all fresh new components is awesome. I just did the same to the rear suspension on my beetle since I did the Subaru engine swap on it... it makes such a difference KNOWING everything is new and fresh.

I'll be calling soon PST!

David
 
alright I want dirty details and pics of your Subaru powered bug! I have been wanting to do that combo for some time now
 
valiantsurf said:
alright I want dirty details and pics of your Subaru powered bug! I have been wanting to do that combo for some time now
Click to expand...

Haha, this is very off topic although it does relate to the great feeling of replacing suspension stuff to get it feeling right again...

It's only the EJ20 2ltr but still puts out a respectable 140 HP and aprox. 300 ft/lbs torque. Not to bad for a 1450 lbs car that started life with a supposed 44 horespower!

The nice thing about the EJ20 is that you can slap turbo's on, yes turbo'S, and no cutting required. It's a bolt in with the adapter plate and flywheel set also available at Kennedy I believe. Although given access I'd throw a EJ25 (2.5ltr) in without hesitation, it may only be 30hp more or so but they can be supercharged etc. more easily.

Also put in regular Super Beetle discs up front, all polyurathane bushings in the rear and put in a lowered (adjustable) front beam and dropped spindels, the combination of which allows for the stance/handling I want, 8" front drop 3" rear. Just the lowered beam will drop the front end aprox 6 inches but results in basicly no suspension travel even with shortened shocks. The rear I lowered 1 inner and 1 outer spline. It handles like a gocart now :)

Have a cup brace in the back that runs from rear shock to rear shock and then from each shock to the rear suspension fork. Rear end is now rock solid.

I have a set from EMPI that are sold for buggys to basically wrap around the gearbox and fork in the back to rigidify the gearbox and stop it from twisting, heavy duty trans mounts, 210mm clutch pack and a flywheel/adapter plate from DST in Germany.

Did all the wiring myself, splicing the Suby engine harness for the ECU into the Beetles power supply/ignition etc. Have yet to fab the exhaust properly and do the cooling lines.

Modified the oil pan for more clearance in the rear and shortened the pick up tube, also added baffles for cornering.

I'm mounting my radiator up front and running tubing under the car. 2 dual fans will cool the 3 core diesel radiator from a Renault van (any decent diesel rad will do that fits).

Got a bunch of gauges etc. to put in but at the end of the day in terms of performance we are talkin aprox. 0-60 in around 5 seconds if not faster, and a top speed of about 130 to 140 Mph with the short ratio gear box.

The Suby engines love RPM's, so once the trans goes I'll build that up then!

I'll get you some pics. For now there's this very crude short video of the first start at the beginning of the summer, was just a test as there was no coolant/cooling system and it's on cold idle startup and ECU's memory is wiped of course as well as the wiring... Man I'm laggin'! That thing should be done by now lol. Don't mind the messy shop, it's my buddy's, let's just say we have different views on shop cleanliness!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaggOZfvqlU

I plan to build her back to the look of a 60-62 with old style headlights, already have the rear "W" style decklid etc. also a full sliding roof off a 92-96 Mazda 121 will go on, it's full electric roof the full width and length of the bug. Big plans not enough time! Then there's the Dart too.

It's an awesome swap, a buddy did a simpler version with the EA82 1.8ltr Suby engine with a central weber IDF 44mm carb, ran pretty well here's a vid or two of that:

He was only pushin' 100 horse :) and I'll be at 140, with this weight that's a big difference.

Here's takin' it easy, 100MPH at the top of 3rd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkCUkKuQDBc

Little compilation, my Beetle build will be a lot more interesting I should think :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8N2ogoI81Y

I digress, gotta get this thing done as a winter car (also plan on installing real heat, lol) so I can get the Dart in for the winter and start rebuilding the suspension etc.

Sorry if this is rather OFF TOPIC and long, I just love cars!
 
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