gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
......anyone have any guesses on what any of the parts in the second to last pic in my last post with pix might be??? Thanks. L8r
Jim
Jim
Gerahead's 71 Dart
- Thread starter gerahead
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gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Got off the phone a few minutes ago after placing and order for a pair of quarter panel skins. I guess that I am pretty much committed to the task of panel replacement now. This is a whole new level of learning for me :downtown:, so keep your fingers crossed. I will update with pix as I go. L8r
Jim
Jim
bmaudlin
Well-Known Member
looks like maybe an inspection plate at the front of a automatic bell housing? one of the bolts definitely looks like a flywheel/flex plate to torque converter bolt. Ben
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
....bell housing inspection hole cover is what I was thinking as well. When I found this part, I realized that the plate between the flex plate and the engine block is another part that I don't have. Can't see it in the picture 'cuz I was trying to show the bullseye pattern in the bolt head, but that bolt is a couple of inches long so probably not for what you suggested. Any other ideas? The push clip really has me baffled, but I guess there is no guarantee that it is even from this car. Thanks. L8r
Jim
Jim
132068Dodge
Well-Known Member
Holy cannonballs batman! Forget the PhD. New quarters are definately in the budget! AMD is the place my man. Great pictures of the previous misconceptions and maleficence of attempted bodywork. I think you deserve a gold medal just for removing all of that old filler. Hehehe. Your car should be a bit closer to race weight after all is said and done as well, LOL. All I can say at this point is keep up the good work. You're going to have a nice, solid car that looks great! Keep the pics and info coming.
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Chris,
Gave up on the PhD project pretty quickly. I only have the 6th grade prerequisits, so owned up to reality....... Since I now have a few days before the parts get here, I can get out the roll of masking tape and start laying out the lines for the absolute minimum that I need to surgically remove and see what that leaves me. I looked over the wheel well lip on the passenger side pretty good and it looks like (at least from what I can see now) the damage is limited to the lip of the outer wheel house. So that should be a relatively easy hammer and dolly exercise. I have a good friend who has done a lot more of this kind of work than me who agreed to stop over one of the next few nights and take a look at what I have and provide his recommendations. It'll be interesting to see if they line up with my preliminary plan. Thanks for the comments. L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
I got my new quarterpanel skins delivered yesterday :blob:No avoiding it now, time to break out the cutting instruments and go to work. Both skins were shipped in the same box so it was really long and awkward to handle. They arrived in good shape, no dents or creases to deal with. There were a fair number of scratches in them and it looks from the location that they were put into the box that way. The skins are from Sherman and Associates. They have the flange that wraps around the tail light panel and there is a lip that wraps around the door jamb, but not enough to weld at the jamb. The complete bottom edge and wheel well lip are there. They extend up to the belt line crease and bend over the top side of the quarter. This must just be extra metal that is meant to be trimmed off because after the bend, it is not even close to following the radius on the top side. The only real "issue" that I see with the panels is that the depression that was stamped into the metal for the gas fill tube is a much softer radius and doesn't have the sharpness at the bend that the factory stamping has. I may try to either alter the radius or graft in that section from the original metal. I am bach-ing it the whole next week, so I am counting on being able to really hammer out some progress. We'll see how smoothly this goes. L8r
Jim
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
My buddy stopped over yesterday afternoon and we worked out a strategy for getting the old metal off and the new metal attached. Since this is my first quarterpanel replacement, I have been doing a fair amount of 'net research to find information on quarterpanel replacement. In most of what I found, the old sheetmetal had already been cut out. I was really looking for something that would help provide info about what to consider in removing the old stuff.
Well here's what we came up with.........The tape line across the top of the panel in the photo below is about where the seam will be in the final version. I will first cut along the solid red lines in order to separate the bulk of the panel from the edges. Then I'll cut out the center chunk with a combination of plasma cutter and cutting wheel. I will cut the "top" below the dashed line. After all the spot welds have been cut out, I will remove the outer sections of the panel. I will also cut the outer rocker lengthwise down the center, leaving the factory welds at the pinch weld at bottom. Then I will cut the lip off the door jam edge so that the new panel will lie down flat against the remaining original steel. I will then cut the skin across the top in the same approximate line as the tape line so that there is a significant overlap along the tape line.
I should now be able to lay the replacement right over the opening and it should lay down flat across the top, door jamb edge and the flange should wrap around the tail light panel. I have left the doors hung this long because they are currently perfectly aligned so I can use them to ensure the offset at the rocker panel edge of the new panel is a good fit. If it is, I will remove the portion of the original steel that I left initially and use the whole part of the replacement in this area. Once everything is aligned, I will mark the edge along the jamb where the excess needs to be cut away from the original steel for a good butt joint by cutting through both layers at the same time so that the edges match exactly with uniform spacing when I start to weld. I'll pull the panel back off, dress the edges to remove burrs and EDP, mark and punch the holes for the plug welds along the drop off and rocker and then hang it back up in the same location and clamp it in place. Tack some spots along the edge to hold the new steel in place. Then I will repeat the double panel cutting along the top edge and weld a few tacks as I go to get the top edge in place. Once all of the excess is cut away, I will work my way around, completing the welding process. That all make sense? L8r
Jim
Well here's what we came up with.........The tape line across the top of the panel in the photo below is about where the seam will be in the final version. I will first cut along the solid red lines in order to separate the bulk of the panel from the edges. Then I'll cut out the center chunk with a combination of plasma cutter and cutting wheel. I will cut the "top" below the dashed line. After all the spot welds have been cut out, I will remove the outer sections of the panel. I will also cut the outer rocker lengthwise down the center, leaving the factory welds at the pinch weld at bottom. Then I will cut the lip off the door jam edge so that the new panel will lie down flat against the remaining original steel. I will then cut the skin across the top in the same approximate line as the tape line so that there is a significant overlap along the tape line.
I should now be able to lay the replacement right over the opening and it should lay down flat across the top, door jamb edge and the flange should wrap around the tail light panel. I have left the doors hung this long because they are currently perfectly aligned so I can use them to ensure the offset at the rocker panel edge of the new panel is a good fit. If it is, I will remove the portion of the original steel that I left initially and use the whole part of the replacement in this area. Once everything is aligned, I will mark the edge along the jamb where the excess needs to be cut away from the original steel for a good butt joint by cutting through both layers at the same time so that the edges match exactly with uniform spacing when I start to weld. I'll pull the panel back off, dress the edges to remove burrs and EDP, mark and punch the holes for the plug welds along the drop off and rocker and then hang it back up in the same location and clamp it in place. Tack some spots along the edge to hold the new steel in place. Then I will repeat the double panel cutting along the top edge and weld a few tacks as I go to get the top edge in place. Once all of the excess is cut away, I will work my way around, completing the welding process. That all make sense? L8r
Jim
76orangewagon
Well-Known Member
Jim,
Looking great, I'm no expert by any means but since I recently did all this panel replacement stuff I think it would be alot easier and less filler if you only had to weld at the top of the fender and front edge by the door, since the bottom is all spot welds it's easy to replace the whole panel (since you have one) and less warping, welding, grinding.....I understand wanting to keep the factory spot welds but if you do it right you can make the replacement welds resemble factory to a point, or borrow/buy a spot weld machine for the pinch weld area.
Looking great, I'm no expert by any means but since I recently did all this panel replacement stuff I think it would be alot easier and less filler if you only had to weld at the top of the fender and front edge by the door, since the bottom is all spot welds it's easy to replace the whole panel (since you have one) and less warping, welding, grinding.....I understand wanting to keep the factory spot welds but if you do it right you can make the replacement welds resemble factory to a point, or borrow/buy a spot weld machine for the pinch weld area.
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Ross,
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm not surprised that my description was somewhat confusing. I am going to be replacing all of the lower part of the panel. The lines that I showed in the pic are just to illustrate where I am going to be making the cuts to separate the bulk of the panel from the spot welded areas at the bottom. I really don't want to do any more welding than I need to, 'cuz like you said, that leads to grinding, heat, warping and filler. I am cutting around the marker light just so I can save that part in case I need it. L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
The passenger side quarter is off. The metal under it is remarkably solid, sure can tell that this car wasn't from Minnesota! There is only a little bit of pitting on the lower part of the drop down. The wheel well lip will need a little hammer/dolly work to straighten it out. There were a couple of cuts made into the lip on the wheel house, looks like they were made to shrink it in?
Question: Is the wheel house supposed to be flat as it comes to the bend that forms the welding lip? It is hard to see in the pix, but it looks like part of the house has a bend in it that kind of follows the body line in the quarter panel over the wheel opening. I know that there was some damage to this part of the panel, so I'm not sure what it is supposed to look like.
What is the best way to trim the excess metal off the new skins? I have a pneumatic saw and I was thinking that might generate less heat than the cut-off wheel. Gotta go cut the grass and then I'll start grinding down the spot welds and hammer some steel :blob:. L8r
Question: Is the wheel house supposed to be flat as it comes to the bend that forms the welding lip? It is hard to see in the pix, but it looks like part of the house has a bend in it that kind of follows the body line in the quarter panel over the wheel opening. I know that there was some damage to this part of the panel, so I'm not sure what it is supposed to look like.
What is the best way to trim the excess metal off the new skins? I have a pneumatic saw and I was thinking that might generate less heat than the cut-off wheel. Gotta go cut the grass and then I'll start grinding down the spot welds and hammer some steel :blob:. L8r
76orangewagon
Well-Known Member
good job, yea I guess I was a little confused by the illustration...
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Jeff,
One of the reasons that I picked up this car was that I didn't think that I would have to either. I sure didn't need a project at the time LOL
L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
No pix yet.............. I have spent the last two days straight working on the passenger side quarter panel install. I have had that thing off and on 20 times and still have made a single weld!!! I have fitted, tweaked, hammered, shoved..... my feet are so sore that I had to come in a take a load off.
I sanded down the flanges of the drop offs, tail light panel and wheel house. Cleaned up behind the quarter and painted the lower portion in POR after taping off the weld areas. Drilled a bazillion holes for plug welds and sprayed weld thru primer in the areas where it will be needed. Doesn't sound like much, but this stuff takes a ton of time especially when you are working by yourself. Spend some time this afternoon dialing in the welder on some scraps that I trimmed off the new panel and some of the older steel. Tomorrow should be the moment of truth. L8r
Jim
I sanded down the flanges of the drop offs, tail light panel and wheel house. Cleaned up behind the quarter and painted the lower portion in POR after taping off the weld areas. Drilled a bazillion holes for plug welds and sprayed weld thru primer in the areas where it will be needed. Doesn't sound like much, but this stuff takes a ton of time especially when you are working by yourself. Spend some time this afternoon dialing in the welder on some scraps that I trimmed off the new panel and some of the older steel. Tomorrow should be the moment of truth. L8r
Jim
a68postcar
Well-Known Member
Get after it George. It appears to be in great condition. nice job on the removal too.
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Thanks a68. I'm hoping that the second side will go faster. Maybe I am just being too particulat about how everything fits, but it seems like when all is said and done, that is what makes the good cars stand out. So I might as well try to make it stellar. L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
The good news is that the passenger's side quarter is tacked on :blob: It actually went pretty smoothly. After I had everything fitted pretty well, I hung it for the last time and ran some self tapping sheet metal screws through the new skin in into the underlapping original quarter, just above where I am going to make the splice (1st pic). The top edge of the tape line is where I intended to make the splice. What I did then was cut through both panels using the tape edge as a guide with an offset grinder and a 0.040" cutting wheel for about a foot. It took several passes to get through both panels and I cooled it with compressed air after each pass to help keep the risk of warping down. Then I removed the first screw and peeled back the overlapping new steel and tacked the two pieces together on the cut edge using compressed air to cool each tack as I went. When I got near the end of the cut, just repeated the process until I had worked my way all the way around the cut edge. You can see the process in the second picture probably better than I can describe it.
Anyone see in the first pic what I could have done to make my job easier???? I need to make the final trim of the new skin below the top body line. That crease made it impossible to peel back the cut portion of the top layer without either cutting the steel below it or running the risk of deforming the cut edge trying to roll it over. Not bad for an engineer huh?
ops:
I thought that I would have trouble with the tack welds, but that went pretty smoothly. I have been fighing the plug welds along the lower lips. I tried some test coupons using scraps from what I cut off and it seemed to work pretty well. What I didn't have figured into the mix was the weld thru primer. That really makes the welder spatter!! Burnt the piss out of my arm on the first one I tried. I have done this before and for some reason it just isn't workin'. Time to walk away. I built up some more pieces to use for tuninhg the welder, this time with the primer applied as well. This really shouldn't be this tough. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Once again, I have GROSSLY underestimated the time it would take to complete this job. Live and learn. L8r
Jim
Anyone see in the first pic what I could have done to make my job easier???? I need to make the final trim of the new skin below the top body line. That crease made it impossible to peel back the cut portion of the top layer without either cutting the steel below it or running the risk of deforming the cut edge trying to roll it over. Not bad for an engineer huh?
ops:I thought that I would have trouble with the tack welds, but that went pretty smoothly. I have been fighing the plug welds along the lower lips. I tried some test coupons using scraps from what I cut off and it seemed to work pretty well. What I didn't have figured into the mix was the weld thru primer. That really makes the welder spatter!! Burnt the piss out of my arm on the first one I tried. I have done this before and for some reason it just isn't workin'. Time to walk away. I built up some more pieces to use for tuninhg the welder, this time with the primer applied as well. This really shouldn't be this tough. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Once again, I have GROSSLY underestimated the time it would take to complete this job. Live and learn. L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Ran into a snag getting the quarter and the trunk extension to align properly at the back corner of the wheel well. Huge gap between the skin and the extension will prevent a plug weld without some extensive and since the bottom edge of the extension is welded, very difficult, modifications. I am considering options and welcome any suggestions. L8r
Jim
Jim
132068Dodge
Well-Known Member
Hi Jim,
Looks pretty darn good under there. Could you provide a few pics illustrating the gaps you are refering to?
Looks pretty darn good under there. Could you provide a few pics illustrating the gaps you are refering to?
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Chris,
I started a thread over on the body/interior/trim forum. There are some pictures there.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=155492
I have been out in the cave mulling it over most of the afternoon and it really looks like the only viable option at this point is to tack the seam along the edge and then weld teh holes for the plug welds shut and grid them smooth. There is no way (at least with any of the tools that I have) to get behind the extension flange to hammer anything around. It is only along the ~ 6" section along the bottom of the wheel well opening that would be like this so there should be no compromise in strength. Thanks. L8r
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Visited an old friend last night over in Packer-land and came home with some goodies. He had a parts car with a pair of the inner splash guards on it that I was enquiring about a few weeks back. They are in pretty good shape, but one of them will need some cosmetic attention. Also came home with an unbent core support to K-member brace and a sway bar. The sway bar mounts have been modified and they are welded together across the top side. I am sure that they can be removed, but not sure yet exactly how. Anyone have a picture of what an unmolested pair of sway bar mounts looks like? It would be helpful. I will try to post a couple of pix of what I am talking about tonight. Thanks. L8r
Jim
Jim
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Here are pix of the sway bar mounts that I mentioned in the post earlier today. What is missing from these brackets?? L8r
Jim
Jim
a68postcar
Well-Known Member
it don't appear that anything is missing. accept for some of the steel that has rotted away, and sone rubber. blast the tar out of em and replace the bushings and you should be good!
gerahead
Glutton for Punishment
Thanks a68,
Another member, 1973dusterkid, sent me some closeups of his and they looked identical to mine. I would have sworn that something had broken off and they were welded up to make them work.
ops: I guess that I am just used to the General's stuff. Thanks for the quick reply. Blast 'em, paint 'em and use 'em is what I'll do. L8rJim
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