glide vs, 904...bench racing

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9secRR

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since i run a 904, i get asked a lot why not switch to a glide. to be honest i don't know why. so i have to ask, is it worth the switch? just thinking out loud as it's winter time and not much happening.

some questions,

PG quicker? not sure but computer program says 2 tenths.
i hear no big wheelies with PG? don't believe it, but don't know
PG needs converter to be perfect? same as every other trans
PG can handle way more power? i think yes

i'm not talking about 11, 10, or high 9 sec cars. 8.50's- 9.0's cars is what i'm talking about.
 
If the 904 works, keep it. I don't know of any racer that run's Glides that doesn't have 1 or more in their trailer for a back up.
 
If the 904 works, keep it. I don't know of any racer that run's Glides that doesn't have 1 or more in their trailer for a back up.
Same here I have been running 904s for over 35 years with very little failure. From what I have seen and heard a " glide " is 1 or 2 tenths slower . When you get in the 8.50 - 9.00 range the reliability of a 727 / 904 becomes questionable . I considered it for my 11 second Dart but the expense is too much to justify the change , converter, driveshaft , trans etc. Now that Cope is offering an SFI case for the 727 it could be a game changer for the reliability of 727s ! It would be nice if he offered an SFI case for 904s ! It sure would be nice to get rid of my pia CSR trans shield !

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My buddy Tom runs a 727 in his Duster. Here's what he says about his Torqueflites. Transact of Indy still going?

"I've been dealing with A&A since 1993. wouldn't go any where else. I average between 150-200 passes a year. get 3-4 years between freshens in an 8 second duster."
 
since i run a 904, i get asked a lot why not switch to a glide. to be honest i don't know why. so i have to ask, is it worth the switch? just thinking out loud as it's winter time and not much happening.

some questions,

PG quicker? not sure but computer program says 2 tenths.
i hear no big wheelies with PG? don't believe it, but don't know
PG needs converter to be perfect? same as every other trans
PG can handle way more power? i think yes

i'm not talking about 11, 10, or high 9 sec cars. 8.50's- 9.0's cars is what i'm talking about.
What times and power are you running on your 904, i am staying 904 with my 6.4 hemi and some people thinks thats crazy. Know plenty people running reliable 10s with 904s. Ill only be making 600hp or so.
 
What times and power are you running on your 904, i am staying 904 with my 6.4 hemi and some people thinks thats crazy. Know plenty people running reliable 10s with 904s. Ill only be making 600hp or so.
I see 9.70 @137 in some of his posts with a W2 motor.
 
If a PG was 2 tenths quicker wouldn’t everyone be using them ?

And as far as stronger goes only if you add a ton of money and numerous billet parts

And like Mike posted
All glide users keep at least 1 spare with them at all times

The 904 is an excellent transmission
I’m sure you already have yours beefed up

Why change if you’re being successful ?
And it’s a Mopar !

Tommy
 
What times and power are you running on your 904, i am staying 904 with my 6.4 hemi and some people thinks thats crazy. Know plenty people running reliable 10s with 904s. Ill only be making 600hp or so.
9.0’s off the trailer. 8.80’s with tuning.
I see 9.70 @137 in some of his posts with a W2 motor.
Yes that’s with the W2. Switched to W8’s last year. 9.0 at 148
 
I run a glide in my 76 Arrow and haven't had any issues in 3 seasons. Yes I do have a spare that came with the car when I acquired it but I haven't had to use it. I change the fluid and filter in the spring, adjust the band according to spec, and chance the fluid again around mid-season. No issues. Car runs 5.70s at 118/119 in the 1/8th and 9-teens and around 146 in the 1/4. As for a side by side comparison of whether the glide is quicker/slower than a 904/727 I can't say. But there has to be a reason for whoever built this car originally decided to go with the glide.
 
This question comes up all the time about a 3 speed vs a glide. Ok so here is my experience between the powerglide vs. 3 speed debate. Most of which I am sure you already know. The powerglide being smaller, less internal parts, and smaller reciprocating parts, requires less power to transfer energy through. Typically if you have two cars that are roughly the same ET, one has a glide and one has a 3 speed, the glide will out MPH the 3 speed, but the 3 speed will have better intervals to the 60 and 330. I have many examples of this with friends I race with who have similar running cars as I do, and their MPH is always better than mine, but they can't touch my increments, even some being faster in the 1/8 than me. This proves true with other cars in my race team and friends as well. This isn't a hard fast rule that fits every situation, but that is my experience on the matter.

Now if we are comparing apples to apples, should you switch your car over to a powerglide as it currently sits without changing rear gears, I suspect it would slow it down. How much? that I can't say because everyone's car is different. Some have their combos figured out much better than others. Yours seems to be a good running figured out combination so I would expect the glide to hurt it some. I am not saying it 100% will hurt it, but that is what I suspect and would expect. There are some guys out there with glides that do leave the line hard and lay down some impressive numbers while maintaining the consistency. A lot of it boils down to the torque converter with a powerglide. The torque converter is much more sensitive to a powerglide than a 3 speed due to the glide not having the steeper first gear ratio to help multiply the torque. So if the converter in a glide is off a couple hundred RPM, it will hurt it much more than if a 3 speed converter is off a couple hundred RPM. A lot of other variables come into play such a vehicle weight, wheelbase, rear and front suspension, etc. But you get my drift.

When a customer calls me about a trans and wants to discuss going to a glide or a 3 speed, I usually say, if you want less bottom end, with less risk of traction on marginal to poorly prepped tracks, and you DON'T want to make suspension changes, then the glide would be your better bet. Now if you want to leave the line harder, don't mind making changes at the track if its marginal or poor, then a 3 speed is the answer. For what its worth, our fastest team car, is a door car and runs 4.60s-70s N/A with a 3 speed. Car has been in the winner circle at regular races and is very consistent. Car is 1/8 mile only.

So overall, I say its all in what you want and are trying to accomplish. All of today's transmissions with aftermarket parts can handle big power, and they all can be consistent and reliable. 2 speed or 3 speed.

I have cosidered the powerglide many times in my own car but the cost to switch to a good powerglide to handle the amount of power you are laying down is going to be costly. Plus you need a different shifter, converter, flywheel, crank adapter for flywheel, driveshaft, and need to modify your cross member in the car. I have added it up many times and it is well over $7k to make the switch and possibly be quite disappointed.

For what its worth, I have had my 727 in my car since 2015. It was originally built by Rick Allison for a top sportsman car in 2006 where it saw many passes at high power. I bought it used in 2013 before I was doing transmissions. I put it in my car on 2015. and never opened it up to have it checked before using it. I put 499 runs on it before I took it apart. Only reason I took it apart was because I had a converter failure and it sent a plethora of metal through my transmission. Nothing inside was damaged and everything was re-used. I replaced clutches and steels just because I had it open.

I will post a video and share it on here of me racing another 1971 Demon heads up in 2023. Both dialed 5.46. Both have same cubic inch and overall engine combos. His car is much lighter than mine. I will share the time slip as well. You will be able to see the difference in how both cars leave with the same ET.

My opinion, don't change to the glide unless you want to spend a bunch of money, and re-learn your whole setup. Make your 904 bulletproof and you'll be good. Many super stockers are running pro flites which are all 904 internal parts with 727 case. They can handle the power and they are going mid 8s.

Also, for those that think or argue that the 904 would require more frequent freshens than a glide, I would have to say I disagree. The parts inside the glide and 904 are both very small, including the clutches and steels. I would have to say they both would require freshening around the same timeframe with this power level you have.
 
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And, who needs to spend big bucks to go faster. If you are class racing may be. You might not be able to run a glide anyway.

I see glides in many small/light cars or dragsters. Just sayin'
 
Both need a slew of billet parts to be safe and have great longevity in high horsepower applications. Your lighter cars like super gas and super comp generally run glides. Most of those cars are GM style powered. Your mid weight door slammer, the 904 if it's a mopar. Now if your racing your pig pickup or your 300/Monaco/New Yorker, I'd go with the 727 built. A few more pounds of rotating mass ain't going to matter much anyway.
 
This question comes up all the time about a 3 speed vs a glide. Ok so here is my experience between the powerglide vs. 3 speed debate. Most of which I am sure you already know. The powerglide being smaller, less internal parts, and smaller reciprocating parts, requires less power to transfer energy through. Typically if you have two cars that are roughly the same ET, one has a glide and one has a 3 speed, the glide will out MPH the 3 speed, but the 3 speed will have better intervals to the 60 and 330. I have many examples of this with friends I race with who have similar running cars as I do, and their MPH is always better than mine, but they can't touch my increments, even some being faster in the 1/8 than me. This proves true with other cars in my race team and friends as well. This isn't a hard fast rule that fits every situation, but that is my experience on the matter.

Now if we are comparing apples to apples, should you switch your car over to a powerglide as it currently sits without changing rear gears, I suspect it would slow it down. How much? that I can't say because everyone's car is different. Some have their combos figured out much better than others. Yours seems to be a good running figured out combination so I would expect the glide to hurt it some. I am not saying it 100% will hurt it, but that is what I suspect and would expect. There are some guys out there with glides that do leave the line hard and lay down some impressive numbers while maintaining the consistency. A lot of it boils down to the torque converter with a powerglide. The torque converter is much more sensitive to a powerglide than a 3 speed due to the glide not having the steeper first gear ratio to help multiply the torque. So if the converter in a glide is off a couple hundred RPM, it will hurt it much more than if a 3 speed converter is off a couple hundred RPM. A lot of other variables come into play such a vehicle weight, wheelbase, rear and front suspension, etc. But you get my drift.

When a customer calls me about a trans and wants to discuss going to a glide or a 3 speed, I usually say, if you want less bottom end, with less risk of traction on marginal to poorly prepped tracks, and you DON'T want to make suspension changes, then the glide would be your better bet. Now if you want to leave the line harder, don't mind making changes at the track if its marginal or poor, then a 3 speed is the answer. For what its worth, our fastest team car, is a door car and runs 4.60s-70s N/A with a 3 speed. Car has been in the winner circle at regular races and is very consistent. Car is 1/8 mile only.

So overall, I say its all in what you want and are trying to accomplish. All of today's transmissions with aftermarket parts can handle big power, and they all can be consistent and reliable. 2 speed or 3 speed.

I have cosidered the powerglide many times in my own car but the cost to switch to a good powerglide to handle the amount of power you are laying down is going to be costly. Plus you need a different shifter, converter, flywheel, crank adapter for flywheel, driveshaft, and need to modify your cross member in the car. I have added it up many times and it is well over $7k to make the switch and possibly be quite disappointed.

For what its worth, I have had my 727 in my car since 2015. It was originally built by Rick Allison for a top sportsman car in 2006 where it saw many passes at high power. I bought it used in 2013 before I was doing transmissions. I put it in my car on 2015. and never opened it up to have it checked before using it. I put 499 runs on it before I took it apart. Only reason I took it apart was because I had a converter failure and it sent a plethora of metal through my transmission. Nothing inside was damaged and everything was re-used. I replaced clutches and steels just because I had it open.

I will post a video and share it on here of me racing another 1971 Demon heads up in 2023. Both dialed 5.46. Both have same cubic inch and overall engine combos. His car is much lighter than mine. I will share the time slip as well. You will be able to see the difference in how both cars leave with the same ET.

My opinion, don't change to the glide unless you want to spend a bunch of money, and re-learn your whole setup. Make your 904 bulletproof and you'll be good. Many super stockers are running pro flites which are all 904 internal parts with 727 case. They can handle the power and they are going mid 8s.

Also, for those that think or argue that the 904 would require more frequent freshens than a glide, I would have to say I disagree. The parts inside the glide and 904 are both very small, including the clutches and steels. I would have to say they both would require freshening around the same timeframe with this power level you have.
thanks for the rundown. lots of good info you provided. to switch to a PG in canada it will be $10,000. good thing i'm not making the switch just bench racing a topic i get asked often.
I doubt it would be faster, I have no doubt you will be poorer.
i agree
 
There was a write up in an old Mopar Performance magazine about this. It involved gear changes and upping the stall speed to make it work. Would just starting out in second give you some idea if it's needed? The magazine was one from Chrysler, not the aftermarket.
 
A rear gear comparison of those two would be interesting.......
There's a gentleman that runs a glide behind his 540 powered Challenger. He leaves the light like the car on the right and runs 9.60's consistently.

When her gets back to his pit, he hangs out in his trailer. Never seen him with the hood up.

I believe the glide works well behind a stroked BB, but not much else.
 
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From a high hp small block stand point both Shiloh Davies and Brian Smith both ran PG transmissions. Once the converter was dialed in they worked. Shiloh is now running a 3 speed (pro-flight)

The 904 currently in my car is a 7k investment in reliability (Andrews Racing Transmissions), but as I’ve mentioned, the first one we put in was an amazingly stock component unit other than the A&A front clutch spring pack and the Pro Trans brake. I’ve got friends in these circles that had broken input/output shafts and that’s something we probably danced with, and didn’t want to deal with.
 

Okay. So, what's yours?
Mine are 4.56. With 2.28 first gear.

So he has much less ratio off the line than me. I’m also pretty sure he’s a good 300-400 lighter than me too. Which is why they run the less gear. I remember when that car had a bigger engine in it with a 4.56 and it would stand up pretty hard on the launch.
 
And your gear advantage is why you are as quick, despite his weight advantage. And also why he's got a couple mile per hour on you.
And you're right. It seems like the guys that really stand it up have 3 speeds.
My glide/brake car would do a very nice controlled wheelstand, but I have about 500 less hp than you., (and maybe 500 lbs less weight.)

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