Help - I'm almost giving up! Won't start.

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Famous FF

Famous FF

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I'm close to giving up. My 67 Barracuda Convertible won't start. Now maybe I should be asking help in the ignition section but when I explain, I think I should be here. I'd be happy to move to the ignition section if someone advises me to.

History: I built my Barracuda between 2001 and 2005. It was originally a 273, 2 barrel, automatic with 120,000 miles. One owner, only rust was 1"x3" in left qtr. Disassembled and stripped to a bare body. Repainted. New Mopar 360 crate motor. Converted to TKO 600 5 speed. 8 3/4, 3:55 posi. 74 K-frame. Large bolt pattern. New wiring harness. Mopar electronic ignition which came with crate motor. A/C dash, evaporator, and other related parts from a 68 Dart. A/C never completed during build. Couldn't find the wire that attaches to the compressor. I think it's suppose to be blue???? Not sure.

When built, it would start instantly. Ran strong with terrific throttle response. Went to the strip once. Made three passes. Best of 13.6 at 101 on Michelin tires. Was invited into the main building at the Mopar Nationals at Carlisle. And was the centerfold car in Mopar Action Magazine, April of 2006.

Then in 2007, something happened one evening. Went to start it at a car show. It cranked, and cranked but would not fire. Very embarrassing! Finally it fired. Seemed to fire when I was turning the ignition switch back to the "ON" position from the "Start" position. From that time till 8 months ago I lived with it not easily starting. 9 times out of 10 it would never start if I just held the key in the start position. It would just continue to crank and not fire. I learned to just hold the key on the start position for maybe 2 to 3 seconds and as I would move the key to "ON" position, many times it would then fire. Almost seemed like it would fire not in the "Start" position but as the engine still had cranking momentum as the key was moved to the "ON" position.

Additionally, while all this was happening, I learned that if I pushed the A/C button on the dash, or the DEFROST button, the engine would immediately stop and would not refire unless I pushed the OFF button or the HEAT button. Almost made a great anti theft device. Ha!

8 months ago, I got tired of living with it like this and it was still embarrassing. I installed a new four prong ballast resistor and a new ignition switch. BAM! It seemed to start perfectly, just like it should. It must have started 10 times perfectly. While it was running I pushed the A/C button and it kept running. I pushed the DEFROST button and it continued to run perfectly. Then I moved the heater lever to the right (WARM) and BOOM! It stopped running. I moved the heater lever back and tried to start it. Again it would crank but wouldn't fire. I installed another new ballast resistor. No difference. I spent another hour on it and nothing.

I was fed up. I haven't touched it now in 8 months. If anyone can recommend a REALLY GOOD MOPAR SPECIALIST within a couple hundred miles of Atlanta, I'll trailer it there and get this fixed. I'm so tired.

I want it to start normally and then figure out how to get the HVAC to work properly.

Are there any suggestions? I've always loved the expertise on this forum. I'm hoping someone can help!?

Many thanks, Frank
 
hi famous ff...

first off, forget about the heater temp. control - cool to hot. that lever is all mechanical and simply turns a water valve on the heater core to let radiator water flow through the core. there are no electrical circuits connected to that.

remember the basics for internal combustion engines - fuel plus spark. if you have no fuel pump, fuel line and carburator issues that eliminates that issue. now to "spark." it sounds like you have a crossed wire somewhere either at the starter, the ignition switch, the ignition relay by the battery, the coil or at the main wiring harness plug on the firewall. get a good wiring diagram off of FABO or one of the other mopar sites and start tracing wires for the ignition. i had a similar problem with my 340 68 barracuda when i did a final assembly as i wasn't getting any spark. it turned out that i had hooked the wrong "common" wire to the ignition relay beside the battery on the fender well. a place to start is the ignition switch. trace all those wires to the wiring harness and then through the engine area. it is not that hard to do if you get a good wiring diagram. you might also pull the fuse box out from under the dash on the driver's side and look at the top inside of the box for loose and/or burn wires. one last thing. there is one terminal connection that gets burnt on the main plug on the firewall. pull the three plugs out of the firewall connection and examine all the terminals.

i hope this is a start.

oh.. .as to a repair person for this problem ... you will have to either find a retired mechanic over the age of 60 or ask around you local car clubs. if you take this car to a "modern" auto shop for this problem they will look at you like you are from mars....
 
How big of a hurry are you in?

If I had to guess right off the hip, I would guess a bad ground. Sounds like somehow the ignition system is not grounded properly and is trying to ground through the heat and ac controls. As long as it will duplicate and STAY not running, it should be easy to isolate.
 
jimharvard said:
hi famous ff...

first off, forget about the heater temp. control - cool to hot. that lever is all mechanical and simply turns a water valve on the heater core to let radiator water flow through the core. there are no electrical circuits connected to that.

remember the basics for internal combustion engines - fuel plus spark. if you have no fuel pump, fuel line and carburator issues that eliminates that issue. now to "spark." it sounds like you have a crossed wire somewhere either at the starter, the ignition switch, the ignition relay by the battery, the coil or at the main wiring harness plug on the firewall. get a good wiring diagram off of FABO or one of the other mopar sites and start tracing wires for the ignition. i had a similar problem with my 340 68 barracuda when i did a final assembly as i wasn't getting any spark. it turned out that i had hooked the wrong "common" wire to the ignition relay beside the battery on the fender well. a place to start is the ignition switch. trace all those wires to the wiring harness and then through the engine area. it is not that hard to do if you get a good wiring diagram. you might also pull the fuse box out from under the dash on the driver's side and look at the top inside of the box for loose and/or burn wires. one last thing. there is one terminal connection that gets burnt on the main plug on the firewall. pull the three plugs out of the firewall connection and examine all the terminals.

i hope this is a start.

oh.. .as to a repair person for this problem ... you will have to either find a retired mechanic over the age of 60 or ask around you local car clubs. if you take this car to a "modern" auto shop for this problem they will look at you like you are from mars....
Click to expand...


Jim, wouldn't it be possible for the cables (hot to cold) that are being actuated to rub against a wire (physically) and create a short!!

Treblig
 
Maybe a ground problem. I worked on a Volare once and to get the blower motor to work I wrapped a piece of wire around the key chain split ring and the other end around the column shifter and sure enough the blower started. There are a lot of grounds, just start with the big ones. Say block to chassis. Paint under connections isn't a good ground, or rust. I have a feeling you know this, but we are not there so we have to start somewhere.
 
Your heater selection control for heat, defrost, and cool (not AC) makes a contact to conenct 12v system power to the blower switch. I suspect your have a compound problem:
- the ignition wiring is shorted to the blower wiring or the ignition is being fed from the wrong point in the circuit
- selecting certain heat/cool controls is erratic; some postions work and some do not. Certain ones are shorting or re-directly power to kill the ignition.
- The moving of the heat temp control is a pretty good clue.

Take out the heat control and look for a brown wire and a dark blue wire from the ignition switch that may be shorted/tangled up in the heat/cool controls.

I am about 10 hours away so too far. I'll PM you with a person in the Atlanta area who might be able to help.
 
Don't give up, but do get a multimeter (free at HF w/ coupon). You don't need a Mopar expert, just any competent auto electric guy. A lot of people get confused by the 70's Mopar ignition box wiring. A later type, like HEI, or Pertronix II, eliminates the ballast and makes wiring much simpler.

If you measure ~8 V at coil+ (w/ blk lead on BATT- ground) in "run" or ~12 V in "crank", the supply side is OK. Then insure the ignition box has a solid ground, i.e. not thru a rusty sheet-metal screw. An in-line spark viewer (cheap at HF) sure helps diagnose.

At this wild guessing stage, I put money on the key switch or bulkhead connectors, but that is all "suppy side" problems.
 
I'm close enough and I'm sure I could find and fix the fault. It would have to sit outside while here though. I would be willing to put my car cover on it.
 
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