internally balanced 360 crank (BIG PROBLEM) need input

[memike]

360s are all external balance because the factory cast iron cranks don't have enough meat to internally balance the piston and rod combo.
The main advantage is it places the counterbalancing weight inside the main caps. That reduces stress and flexing and torsional harmonics in any crank. That adds up to more ability to handle more power, more power out the back, smoothness, better fuel economy, and better life span. Additionally it allows you to use any neutral harmonic dampener and any neutral flex plate and convertor/flywheel.
I internally balance everything I do for those reasons.

Thank you mopar :cheers: I see that there is a few good reasons to go to an internal balanced crank now.:smile:.. To use any neutral harmonic dampener :thumleft:
and not worry about finding the correct harmonic dampener and flex plate and a longer life span that will handle more Hp , Thank you very much mopar :thumleft:

 

[crackedback]

JMO, unless you are twisting that thing some serious RPM (6500-7000+), internal balancing a 360 is money better spent elsewhere (heads). Plenty of 360's rolling around with plenty of miles on them in external balance configuration. Internal doesn't even cross my mind with a factory iron crank. If stepping up to a forged 3.58 crank, then yes. internal balance. Stocker stuff, nope.

Sucks this happened to you. Hope you get it fixed and running soon.

 

[Guitar Jones]

exactly, even if it took me 15 times to get it right, I KNOW it was done right, and its not going to come apart.

My point is he's not trustworthy in regard to his abilities. I've been in and out of machine shops since I was 16 and i'm 42. I've seen some scary stuff that held together and some that didn't. But I've never seen weight stuck in a tube and tack welded to a counterweight. NEVER. If he got the crank back from the balancer in that shape he should have sent it back once he stopped laughing. He didn't. And because he didn't I'd be frightened to the point that I'd rather not have a well-meaning but ignorant guy trying again. I have friends that own shops local to me. I drive an hour away to go to a guy I know is capable and my friends I stay friends.

All true which is why I said to take it apart and check everything when you get it back. To not get anything from him would be a mistake in my opinion. He'll get some new parts out of the deal and maybe some cash too, then he can proceed to make it right if it is not when he gets it back. Even $10 is better than $0.

 

[victoriabc67dart]

thanks to everyone for all the input again i pulled the motor and gt it on an engine stand yesterday it was a painful 3 hrs cause i just finished putting it all in and it sucked to have to take it all out but either way the deed is done i told my engine builder that he can deal with the crank supplier because he bought it and i had no control over that and that im not gonna be a middle man i told him that if the guy wants to cover all the cost of parts including fluids and gaskets i would consider him doing any machine work at his shop i want a properly balanced crank ( that i now know what looks like and how it should be done) and if he supplies everything needed i will eat the cost of the R&R but i want my engine builder to assemble the motor so we can inspect all the machine work and i can see it being put together basically he would have to replace all that anyway he will only be paying for the cost of assemble which is dick like 400$ i think that is a fair deal and something i would be able to be happy with is that too much to ask? i dunno i will find out in the next day or so but i took lots of photos last night that i will post right now also he can cover the cost of a bag of kitty litter to clean the liters of fluid i spilt in my tiny garage lol

 

[MTmopars]

Where did the stuff about a tube welded to outside of the counterweight come from???

I see now that the Mallory should be put in from the side. Crazy.

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

HOpe it works out... sounds like the shop is trying to right the wrong. I'd let him fix it for you. (My 2 cents)

 

[skrews]

JMO, unless you are twisting that thing some serious RPM (6500-7000+), internal balancing a 360 is money better spent elsewhere (heads). Plenty of 360's rolling around with plenty of miles on them in external balance configuration. Internal doesn't even cross my mind with a factory iron crank. If stepping up to a forged 3.58 crank, then yes. internal balance. Stocker stuff, nope.

Sucks this happened to you. Hope you get it fixed and running soon.

X2
I've got an external balance 360 turning 7K running low 11s no issues.

 

[victoriabc67dart]

i originally thought because the weld on the slug of metal looked the same as the one on the crank that it was just brazed on there or something until someone on here said that there should be another hole that it actually flung out of so when i pulled the motor last night i looked for the hole it came out of and it was there i didnt see it at first when i was underneath the car and i hadn't turned the engine over by hand because at first i didnt want to damaged the motor any further or something thanks to the guy with the post of the photo of the crank properly balanced as well i can see and understand the difference in why one would work if the weight was in the side rather then on the bottom of the counter weight like mine the way mine was done it would constantly have the force and pull of that crank rotating working against it

 

[Inertia]

My apology.

That was my post about being welded to the counter weight, after finding that "slug" in the pan, we had crawled around under the car with a cell phone for a flashlight, and found a scabby circle of spot welds, that appeared to be the place where it came from..

 

[moparisbest]

I thank you have a mopar hater balancing your crank . And he's probably a ford or Chevy lover and he sabotaged your engine hoping it would go out later . My 12 year old son can weld better than that . Make him pay for his mistake . And go to different engine builder to . Your engine builder should have caught that . The welds on the slug that's still in the crank look like **** !

 

[tubtar]

I thank you have a mopar hater balancing your crank . And he's probably a ford or Chevy lover and he sabotaged your engine hoping it would go out later .

I weep for our future.
Seriously ?
I dunno , Man.
If that was sarcasm , I apologize.
If it was even remotely possible that someone who builds engines for a living would entertain a thought like this for longer than a nano second , I'd be flat ******* amazed.
Especially given that this one has offered to make it right.
And there is a reason why slugs of Mallory metal are usually installed parallel to the crankshaft centerline. I have seen weld built up in balancing holes to add small amounts of weight. But welding cast without pre heating is a gamble ....... pre heating a crank to weld it could be bad for it dimensionally , hence no penetration.
Then , you get a dense whack of mallory metal being spit out as centripetal force increased beyond what is the metallurgical equivalent of a paper clip could hold.
You really want to look for other damage here......Magnaflux the block at a minimum and visually check everything you want to re-use repeatedly.
The crankshaft would not by my friend anymore either , except as a door stop. It took a life cycle worth of beating in a very few seconds.

 

[moparisbest]

I weep for our future.
Seriously ?
I dunno , Man.
If that was sarcasm , I apologize.
If it was even remotely possible that someone who builds engines for a living would entertain a thought like this for longer than a nano second , I'd be flat ******* amazed.
Especially given that this one has offered to make it right.
And there is a reason why slugs of Mallory metal are usually installed parallel to the crankshaft centerline. I have seen weld built up in balancing holes to add small amounts of weight. But welding cast without pre heating is a gamble ....... pre heating a crank to weld it could be bad for it dimensionally , hence no penetration.
Then , you get a dense whack of mallory metal being spit out as centripetal force increased beyond what is the metallurgical equivalent of a paper clip could hold.
You really want to look for other damage here......Magnaflux the block at a minimum and visually check everything you want to re-use repeatedly.
The crankshaft would not by my friend anymore either , except as a door stop. It took a life cycle worth of beating in a very few seconds.

Did you see the welds in the pic ? I'm saying this guy is a total *** that must have been drunk wile balancing this crank . Do you thank he could have at least grinded the welds smooth it was being a little sarcastic about the Chevy ford guy thing but the thought did cross my mind . That he did it on purpose . Maybe you have more faith in the human race than I do . No need to weep for your future or mine . As I will be fine you have your way of thinking and I have mine so no apology needed . That what makes America so grate is we can have are own opinion .

 

[tubtar]

Did you see the welds in the pic ?
Yep.


" I'm saying this guy is a total *** that must have been drunk wile balancing this crank . "

You won't be getting much argument there....except for the sweeping substance abuse remark.....but I wouldn't rule it out either.


" Do you thank he could have at least grinded the welds smooth it was being a little sarcastic about the Chevy ford guy thing but the thought did cross my mind . That he did it on purpose ."

It takes a real hate to do something like this.......if I was upset with a customer , I'd just show them the door. No repercussions.
To willfully damage a persons property , especially where you are often getting into Pride and Joy territory , is a very high risk proposition.

" Maybe you have more faith in the human race than I do . No need to weep for your future or mine . As I will be fine you have your way of thinking and I have mine so no apology needed . That what makes America so grate is we can have are own opinion ."

I think I am a very good judge of character , and faith and respect are not free with a fill. You earn them.
Maybe our opinions are not so far apart in some regards.
And that is great too.

 

[victoriabc67dart]

I know it has been a few months since i last posted but the guys who balanced the crank came good for everything i had the motor taken apart and magnafluxed my engine had three damaged pistons and a new oil pump pickup and pan were needed they covered all my fluids and gaskets plus gave me a couple of hundred bucks for doing the r&r myself she's back up and going now and with the help of my mechanic its all tuned and it romps pretty good I will post some photos and maybe a video soon thanx again to everyone for the input also i had the crank replaced with a properly balanced one and I went over the engine before I painted it thanks again
Joey

 

[T56MaxTorq]

Wow good for you! I've been burned out of thousands before, which ended in nothing but bitter words and finger pointing. I have a 360 at the shop now that is going to get internally balanced and this horror story with a good ending really woke me up.

Glad everything eventually worked out, happy cruising!

 

[moper]

Excellent. Sounds like a stand up guy and that's the most important thing.

 

[needsaresto]

Oh good a happy ending!!

 

[fishy68]

Man that's great! Always like to hear a good ending.