Lower Control Arm Doesnt go back in????

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idrift said:
Yes,

I pressed the pin out and left the shell in the lca and on the shaft.

I just took the other side off and the rubber is obviously much thinner
than the poly. It did kick back the lca shaft to about 1/2" once the strut
nut was removed. I would imagine the poly will not compress like that though.
Also, the steel spacer in the center of the poly bushings is about 1/2" shorter
than the overall of the bushings and that is not including the frame thickness.
Whats the best thing to do here? Should I just use rubber bushings or
cut down the poly until I get a good compression on them? I was trying
to eliminate my death trap, not make a new one!
Click to expand...

With the LCA hanging down real low without the shock hooked up IIRC the pin doesn't want to go all the way in. Try picking up the LCA to about level and see if you can move it foward some. You probably will need to back of the adjuster some more. Then you have to tighten the strut to move it the rest of the way forward.

Look in the K-member strut hole to check if the ridge on the poly strut bushing is seated in the hole.

To tighten the LCA pin you probably will have to use some channel locks on that shoulder on the LCA pin to hold it while tightening the nut. This is because the poly bushing will allow the pin to spin whereas the rubber bushings are molded and fused to the shells.
 
Heres a shot of my lca butted up to where the diameter on the stud gets
larger and seats in the frame, and then the location of the strut rod to
frame. To be honest, it looks like those poly bushings need to get the
entire tapered part hacked off to get the spacing about right.

If memory serves me right, mopars had some inherent strut rod binding,
is this correct?

What's the result of the bushings being too thick and too thin?

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SNC00061.jpg
 
you have to get the bushings in there 1st at least the back one on the strut rod, then push the lower down enough to stab the other end [strut rod] into it.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
you have to get the bushings in there 1st at least the back one on the strut rod, then push the lower down enough to stab the other end [strut rod] into it.
Click to expand...

Yep, I was just doing that to see how much room I would have for the bushing. I find it very hard to believe there would be room for the thicker
poly strut bushing and then the control arm shaft to seat all the way.

Did you bang the crap out of the T bar to seat yours into position? I don't
have the T bars in mine yet.

That poly bushing is so thick that I cannot get the assembly in to the above
pictures, the lca shaft will be out about 3/8" more from the frame.
 
It looks like the lca bushing is pressed too far onto the pin....

LCA 003.jpg
 
idrift said:
Yep, I was just doing that to see how much room I would have for the bushing. I find it very hard to believe there would be room for the thicker
poly strut bushing and then the control arm shaft to seat all the way.
Click to expand...

Did you bang the crap out of the T bar to seat yours into position? I don't have the T bars in mine yet.
Click to expand...

Somewhat. You must have had to bang them to get them out too?

When you put the T-bars in, that will help a little to get the pin to seat.

That poly bushing is so thick that I cannot get the assembly in to the above pictures, the lca shaft will be out about 3/8" more from the frame.
Click to expand...

Pull the LCA up. In those pictures it's still hanging way way down. That's not it's natual position.

Shave 3/16" off the rear strut bushing and the same 3/16" off the inner strut sleeve. Just like my picture on Matt Grubel site. That what I have run in my Barracuda for 15 years. But that's not going to make up the 2" it sticking out right now. You have to tighten everything up at ride height and get everthing pulled into place.
 
autoxcuda said:
Somewhat. You must have had to bang them to get them out too?

When you put the T-bars in, that will help a little to get the pin to seat.



Pull the LCA up. In those pictures it's still hanging way way down. That's not it's natual position.

Shave 3/16" off the rear strut bushing and the same 3/16" off the inner strut sleeve. Just like my picture on Matt Grubel site. That what I have run in my Barracuda for 15 years. But that's not going to make up the 2" it sticking out right now. You have to tighten everything up at ride height and get everthing pulled into place.
Click to expand...

Oh yea, banged them out with a 5lb hammer. I have new bars coming thats
why I havent driven the old ones back in, I'm sure that will help some.

I know the lca is hanging low, it levels out some, but I will still have to drive
about 1/2" forward. I don't want too much rearward pressure on the T bar
lock pin. I will shave the poly bushing down some, would 3/8" to 1/2" be too
much?
 
idrift said:
Oh yea, banged them out with a 5lb hammer. I have new bars coming thats
why I havent driven the old ones back in, I'm sure that will help some.

I know the lca is hanging low, it levels out some, but I will still have to drive
about 1/2" forward. I don't want too much rearward pressure on the T bar
lock pin. I will shave the poly bushing down some, would 3/8" to 1/2" be too
much?
Click to expand...

3/8" is plenty. I just shortened the nose that amount and cut the inner sleeve the same amount.

When you say you have to move 1/2" forward, is that after you installed the strut bushings and fully torqued down the front bushings AND had the LCA at ride height or at least the shock hooked up??

IIRC, mine was didn't want to sit flush either. And thats with the shaved rear bushings. So I was concerned just like you.

BUT when I tightened everthing up and got it to ride height, ALL was fine. I wouldn't do a final tightening of the strut bushings untill I had the shock hooked up or at ride height. The idea is to get the lip on the strut bushing to fit into place in the K-member hole. That was 10 years ago and over 20-30K miles. Never messed with it since.

Personally, I think you are fine right now. You just haven't tightened up the strut nut with the LCA raised up. That will pull the LCA bushing snug. I'd tighten the LCA pin before you tighten the strut rod nut. That way you can get a channel locks in there easier to keep the LCA pin from spinning.
 
I used the Poly parts when i did my 69 DArt and after I tighted up the front side of the Strut rod Everything was good?
 
I just pulled this from the Firm Feel website.

"Urethane strut bushings are based on the '66-'72 "B" and '70-'74 "E" body style strut bushing dimensions. This strut bushing happens to be thicker than most all other strut bushing combos out there. Approx. 3/8 inch thicker than the 63-72 A-body bushing. This pushes the lower control back, putting the LCA bushing in a slight bind but more importantly losing what little positive caster it had in the first place,( these cars only have about 1 degree of positive caster). "
 
autoxcuda said:
3/8" is plenty. I just shortened the nose that amount and cut the inner sleeve the same amount.

When you say you have to move 1/2" forward, is that after you installed the strut bushings and fully torqued down the front bushings AND had the LCA at ride height or at least the shock hooked up??

IIRC, mine was didn't want to sit flush either. And thats with the shaved rear bushings. So I was concerned just like you.

BUT when I tightened everthing up and got it to ride height, ALL was fine. I wouldn't do a final tightening of the strut bushings untill I had the shock hooked up or at ride height. The idea is to get the lip on the strut bushing to fit into place in the K-member hole. That was 10 years ago and over 20-30K miles. Never messed with it since.

Personally, I think you are fine right now. You just haven't tightened up the strut nut with the LCA raised up. That will pull the LCA bushing snug. I'd tighten the LCA pin before you tighten the strut rod nut. That way you can get a channel locks in there easier to keep the LCA pin from spinning.
Click to expand...

The poly bushing that is greased up in the LCA is so goosey you can slide it
forward and back easily. I dont' want it to drift around while driving.

I can probably torque the lca pin down and slide the arm on the pin. I know
with rubber you dont want to tighten it until the weight of the car is on it or you will ruin the bushings but I cant imagine that's the case with this
poly set.

thanks for your help guys, sorry if I am being a pain. I did an E body I had
years ago with a poly set and I dont remember this being the case.
 
idrift said:
The poly bushing that is greased up in the LCA is so goosey you can slide it
forward and back easily. I dont' want it to drift around while driving.
Click to expand...

Same with mine. All mopar LCA poly bushings are like that. The strut rod holds them in place.

I can probably torque the lca pin down and slide the arm on the pin. I know
with rubber you dont want to tighten it until the weight of the car is on it or you will ruin the bushings but I cant imagine that's the case with this
poly set.
Click to expand...

Exactly. But I'd do final strut rod tightening with weight of the car or at least the shock hooked up. Right now you have the LCA hanging down real low and it puts too much angle on the strut bushings.

thanks for your help guys, sorry if I am being a pain. I did an E body I had
years ago with a poly set and I dont remember this being the case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the same issues I had in 1997 when I did mine. Except I had a heck of time getting the poly bushing to press/push/slide into the LCA with the LCA pin. I had to carefully sand the OD of the poly bushing and I event sanded the inside of the old rubber bushing casing in the LCA. If you look at those pictures I posted, I also polished the surfaces. I thought that might keep them from squeaking. I don't think they squeak now and that's 12 years and I've never re lubed them. I dunno, could be a coincidence?
 
Ok I'm back on,did I miss anyhing? Thanks idrift for posting this question,and thanks to everyone else for supplying the advice.It seems to be a whole lot clearer now,so hopefully when ever I get around to finishing my bushing installation I won't have any major issues.
 
mullinax95 said:
All stock rubber components for me on by front end rebuild.
Click to expand...

I did think about rubber, but I had such good luck with poly year ago I
decided to go with them again. Also, the rubber break down so fast
and are susceptible to environmental breakdown whereas the poly are not.

I'm getting long enough in the tooth I don't want to do this again, so poly
made sense for me. FWIW
 
you'll get it.

You gotta get the arm started with a nut/no washer for now, then with the car up enough you can push the lower arm down and with the front of the strut in the k membeer you should be able to stick the other end in the lower arm.

then torque the strut nut and put a washer on the lower pin nut.

I don't grease my lower poly but a tinge, and thats only if they don't slide in easy.
 
I took a couple of pictures of my strut bushings and the center spacer. I find
it hard to believe this is correct due to the fact that the poly will not compress
like rubber will. If they are using the sleeve to control torque for the shaft nut
it would never get there. The original rubber bushings bottom on the rod, but
these being so thick rely on the spacer correct? So why the 1/4" shorter
spacer on this?
The pictures show the bushing against one side and the resulting gap on the
other.

X, any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Doug

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What are you saying?

that the spacers are 2 diff lengths?
or that the bushings are 2 diff thicknesses?
or that the spacers are a 1/4 shorter than the strut bushings are when stacked?

Shorter to allow some compression.

sorry, just want to get this right.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
What are you saying?

that the spacers are 2 diff lengths?
or that the bushings are 2 diff thicknesses?
or that the spacers are a 1/4 shorter than the strut bushings are when stacked?

Shorter to allow some compression.

sorry, just want to get this right.
Click to expand...

Yes, when stacked together as show without the thickness of the frame
added in (shoulder takes up most of that) the sleeve is 1/4" shorter than
the length of the stacked bushings. Torque spec is 45 ft lbs on the strut
nut. Seems like that sleeve should be longer as I cant imagine the bushings
compressing that much under specified torque. I was going to cut the bushings and sleeve down some, but it looks like the sleeve doesn't need to
but cut that much.
 
idrift said:
Yes, when stacked together as show without the thickness of the frame
added in (shoulder takes up most of that) the sleeve is 1/4" shorter than
the length of the stacked bushings. Torque spec is 45 ft lbs on the strut
nut. Seems like that sleeve should be longer as I cant imagine the bushings
compressing that much under specified torque. I was going to cut the bushings and sleeve down some, but it looks like the sleeve doesn't need to
but cut that much.
Click to expand...

They can't set absolutely flush with the sleeve. If they did, it would allow too much movement in the strut rod. They need some compression. As hard as they seem, they will compress.

It will be really hard to compress and tighten them with the LCA all angled down. I would snug them now and finish tightening at ride height. Use a nylock nut if you don't shave them down. This is because the cotter pin probably won't fit with two uncut poly bushings. I think the 73-76 strut rods might though.

Pin hole is visible in upper left corner of picture. Yes, I put one in there. And you can see how the aftermarket sway bar bushing does not sit in the factory k-member cross bar. Energy does sell a thin version that fits in there for the factory sway bar like I had on there at that time.

4_6_07CudaAlignment0115a.JPG
 
Ok, so I took the bushings and sleeves to work today and shaved them down
3/8" on the lathe. Brought them home and started the assembly. I have the
passengers side so the kingpin is against the frame and the strut bushing is
snugged up but not torqued yet. The bushing face in the lca is about 3/16" from
the lip on the kingpin. I figure when I torque the strut rod down it will pull in some and when I bang the T bar in it should end up pretty much there.

Now on the drivers side, that sob will not stay put. I have the strut rod snugged up and when I start to tighten the kingpin the damn thing
kicks back out of the bushing and the arm slides back. I had a T bar kind of
sitting in there to help hold it but no go. The thing always kicks back. What
gives? Could I have a bent strut rod that's kicking it out or something?

Would a T bar hold this in place once its seated fully? Hammer back in place
with the T bar clamp?
 
idrift said:
Ok, so I took the bushings and sleeves to work today and shaved them down
3/8" on the lathe. Brought them home and started the assembly. I have the
passengers side so the kingpin is against the frame and the strut bushing is
snugged up but not torqued yet. The bushing face in the lca is about 3/16" from
the lip on the kingpin. I figure when I torque the strut rod down it will pull in some and when I bang the T bar in it should end up pretty much there.

Now on the drivers side, that sob will not stay put. I have the strut rod snugged up and when I start to tighten the kingpin the damn thing
kicks back out of the bushing and the arm slides back. I had a T bar kind of
sitting in there to help hold it but no go. The thing always kicks back. What
gives? Could I have a bent strut rod that's kicking it out or something?

Would a T bar hold this in place once its seated fully? Hammer back in place
with the T bar clamp?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if something is bent on the DS. I used the poly lower bushing that just slipped into the LCA arm while utilizing the original bushing shell and tho I douted that it would work it has been fine for a year now. Since you had no issues on the PS? One more thing, I think from now on I'm going to use the factory type lower bushing in the future, it just seems like a better way.
 
Here's the pictures of them.

The rubber bushings I took out were worn really bad to one side.

I found one of the K member welds where it bolts to the frame is broken, looks
like I have to weld that up....

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