A sticky it shall be!!!! Thanks from above.
Modern Headlights
- Thread starter Pawned
- Start date
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Dan, I almost 100% certain the Hella's I posted have H2 bulbs.
Anyways you need to buy their relay to give them full potential.
They sell a kit with both lights, relay, and wiring, no cutting to the factory harness.
Very bright.
Anyways you need to buy their relay to give them full potential.
They sell a kit with both lights, relay, and wiring, no cutting to the factory harness.
Very bright.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Dan has already had TONS to do with the available products as well as the laws governing their use.
He WILL tell you exactly what you don't want to hear if what you want to hear is that a crap product that your friends recommend is a good, safe and legal for use product.
Just keep in mind as some have mentioned already, that the MAIN reason headlights suck in our cars is the wiring (the available voltage and amps) to the headlight bulbs.
Using relays puts a much more capable power supply closer to the bulb that needs it instead of the headlights getting their power supply from a small 12 or 14 ga wire that runs through all your under hood, bulkhead connector, dash and switch wiring and then back out to the headlights to light them.
Having done it myself, I can confirm that the lights (any lights) are WAY better than with the factory wiring (plus it takes all that heat generating power sucking load off of your switches) which is a good thing.
Knowing what I know now I would never try to solve that problem with bulb changes only, as it's a complete waste of time and money without having a good supply of power.
1. Relays
2. Even just decent bulbs.
3. You will probably never need a 3.
slantsixdan
=..=
Nope, they're HB2, also called 9003, which are the US designations for what the rest of the world calls an H4. (it's even a little more confusing than that, because there is such a thing as an H2 bulb, but it's not widely used and it has only one filament so it can't be used in high/low beam headlamps.)
Be extra-super careful buying cheap off-the-shelf relay kits. Most of them are unreliable Chinese junk, and when (not if) they fail, you're plunged into darkness without warning. If it's a choice between cheap no-name relays or living with the limitations of the stock wiring, stick with the stock wiring. Fortunately there are enough options for non-shìtty relays that you don't have to face that choice.
Dan, if you buy the entire kit from Hella, the relays are marked made in Germany by Hella.
Not arguing just providing information.
Not arguing just providing information.
slantsixdan
=..=
That sounds reassuring...until you know these two facts:
1. Hella does not make, package, or offer a headlamps-with-relays kit. They offer headlamps with or without bulbs, in one-packs or two-packs, but not headlamps with relays or relay harnesses. A relay kit or harness that comes with Hella headlamps was selected and packaged by someone other than Hella.
2. Hella moved all (not some, all) of their relay manufacture to China in 2005-'06. A relay marked "Hella" and "Germany" is either a decade old (not likely, given that they're high-turnover items) or counterfeit (highly likely, given the thriving knockoff industry in China and the high profit margin involved).
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Soooo, now we need to know the good relay(s) to use. I am tempted to dig into my old ham radio parts collection now!
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
A relay for each filament instead of each set of bulbs is the only way I felt safe, even with good relays.
That way if a relay fails I only loose one bulb and not both.
Can I agree and disagree?
#1 I bought 3 complete packages from Hella about 10 years ago, lights, wiring, relay, etc.
Not sure about now.
#2 The more I think about it you are right, I had to replace a relay a few years ago, and it came in with the Germany stamp, but the package it came in said made in china.
slantsixdan
=..=
Shirley!
Hella has never offered headlamp relay kits or harnesses (as such), with or without headlamps. They offer relays and accessories (terminals, relay brackets), and they have a few different fog/driving lamp harnesses, but no headlamp relay packages and no headlamp sockets or plugs, etc.
But the 10-years-ago purchase would definitely explain why your original relays were marked Germany. Truth to tell, I steered away from Hella relays about 12 years ago, because even before they moved production to China the comeback rate was too high. Switched to handling Bosch/Tyco and Flosser relays and dead relays pretty much stopped happening.
Good idea to toss a spare relay in the glovebox.
Thanks to those of you that recommended my relay kits.
Kits really do make a big difference in lighting with a good halogen lamp. Even stock style headlights work tons better when they get the voltage they need. The stock wiring and sizing is not even reasonably sufficient.
Dan mentioned the exponential loss of light output with voltage drops. It's a very important piece of the puzzle the factory wiring falls short on.
Kits really do make a big difference in lighting with a good halogen lamp. Even stock style headlights work tons better when they get the voltage they need. The stock wiring and sizing is not even reasonably sufficient.
Dan mentioned the exponential loss of light output with voltage drops. It's a very important piece of the puzzle the factory wiring falls short on.
Actually Dan is right.
Checked my receipts and headlamps come individual, and driving lights come as a kit.
Driving lights are bright, they illuminate at least 1000 yards in front of you.
Checked my receipts and headlamps come individual, and driving lights come as a kit.
Driving lights are bright, they illuminate at least 1000 yards in front of you.
nothingface5384
Well-Known Member
Theres only 3 good modern options
H4 conversion via danial stern lighting
Led projectors from JW Speaker
Hid projectors via Dapper lighting
Relay kits are cheap..20 to 40 bucks and should be used on all 3 options..hell when ised on stock sealed beams, itll dramaticly improve lighting. .
If the H4 housings arnt Cibbie,bosche, or Hella(in that order)..the housings are garbage and expect side beam scatter
If you have a 4 head light system, best to go h2s high and h2 lows
If 2 head light h4
If the HIDS dont have a projector or are retrod into a halogen housing youre get a hotspot..and again side beam scatter..
If the HID is above.4300k - 5000k you're actually reducing your lighting distance for Color..
H4 conversion via danial stern lighting
Led projectors from JW Speaker
Hid projectors via Dapper lighting
Relay kits are cheap..20 to 40 bucks and should be used on all 3 options..hell when ised on stock sealed beams, itll dramaticly improve lighting. .
If the H4 housings arnt Cibbie,bosche, or Hella(in that order)..the housings are garbage and expect side beam scatter
If you have a 4 head light system, best to go h2s high and h2 lows
If 2 head light h4
If the HIDS dont have a projector or are retrod into a halogen housing youre get a hotspot..and again side beam scatter..
If the HID is above.4300k - 5000k you're actually reducing your lighting distance for Color..
slantsixdan
=..=
Hey, pipe down, willya? Shhhh! I've got a shady reputation to live down to!
Yup. But that name for them makes problems. A lot of people think "Well, I'm driving, so I'll turn on my driving lights!", not realizing that they are auxiliary high beams: safe and legal only with the vehicle's main high beam headlamps on dark, empty roads (or off road). Never with low beams, never by themselves, never in bad weather, and never in traffic. The term is left over from long ago, when there were few cars on the road and most night driving was done on the "driving beam". On the rare occasion another car came along, you dipped down to the "passing beam" until you and the other driver passed each other, then back to the "driving beam". These days traffic density means the low beam gets the most use.
And then there's fog lamps, which are basically useless to most drivers most of the time, but people leave them permanently on or treat them as fashion accessories. They can be useful in very soupy weather at very low speeds, but other than that, they actually hurt your ability to see what you need to see at night.
dodgedifferent2
Well-Known Member
the shady part is mainly because he seems to pop up everywhere and posts on every board that talks about lighting. Normal people do not have that much free time.
I have followed a lot about what he has said about lighting I will not argue that nor will i argue his alleged knowledge on the subject of lighting.
I could never find part numbers when he was talking about bulbs or lenses. Most stuff seemed discontinued or non existent in north america. That is not an argument whether things were good or not because lots of great things have been discontinued. the availability is also a factor to think about. If i have to buy a warehouse to stalk items to keep my car on the road then something is off as most stuff to get to my door will take over a week if found on the internet. When my parts store will/or get the item within 24 hours. when in a pinch i want to be able to walk to the parts store and get the item before the police show up because i have a burnt out headlight
A lot of times he posts about a bulb/lens that cannot be found anywhere else, but magically he had some on the shelf. My ears/eyes are always open to advice or an opinion but i will search and search to get to the bottom of one opinion before i jump on a bandwagon.
i rarely ever fall for the claims of advertising (that i am aware of)
I sit and voice my opinion at tv commercials all the time and sometimes feel like a grumpy ole man watching tv with all the "tech" behind things. But when you dig deeper there are alot of claims that have no study to back it up. Just an opinion from the company that is trying to sell you or i something.
Excuse but i now have to go change my lighter fluid in my headlights and tweak the muffler bearings.
I have followed a lot about what he has said about lighting I will not argue that nor will i argue his alleged knowledge on the subject of lighting.
I could never find part numbers when he was talking about bulbs or lenses. Most stuff seemed discontinued or non existent in north america. That is not an argument whether things were good or not because lots of great things have been discontinued. the availability is also a factor to think about. If i have to buy a warehouse to stalk items to keep my car on the road then something is off as most stuff to get to my door will take over a week if found on the internet. When my parts store will/or get the item within 24 hours. when in a pinch i want to be able to walk to the parts store and get the item before the police show up because i have a burnt out headlight
A lot of times he posts about a bulb/lens that cannot be found anywhere else, but magically he had some on the shelf. My ears/eyes are always open to advice or an opinion but i will search and search to get to the bottom of one opinion before i jump on a bandwagon.
i rarely ever fall for the claims of advertising (that i am aware of)
I sit and voice my opinion at tv commercials all the time and sometimes feel like a grumpy ole man watching tv with all the "tech" behind things. But when you dig deeper there are alot of claims that have no study to back it up. Just an opinion from the company that is trying to sell you or i something.
Excuse but i now have to go change my lighter fluid in my headlights and tweak the muffler bearings.
Yes, but mine are wired that the driving lights go off with low beams.
No switches to fool with, the dimmer switch takes care of everything.
If you think those low buck kits are a good solution, have at it. I've taken one apart and the construction, crimping and attention to detail are not very good. I can buy those same kits in bulk for under $3 per unit. I'll continue to build a superior product out of my garage.
The engineering and system redundancy is lacking as well.
My stuff is Ferrari compared to a Yugo with those kits. It's the Wal-Mart of wiring.
Pick your parts, pay your money!
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
1. Dan's interest's and knowledge on automotive lighting products goes WAY beyond what any "normal" human being would ever need to know believe me.
And if it's a good product that you don't normally find on the shelf I for one am glad someone we know still carries it. (That's the way I take his interactions)
Do we find the sponsors and ad's on the side of our screens "shady" because they are right there if we need them?
2. We already knew he wasn't normal.
Exactly and that's because your stuff is made where?
USA USA USA like the good old days.
Great thread and even better info guys! Hey I have a question that hasn't been asked. What kind of amps do headlights draw. I would judge wire gauge, terminal selection, and relay selection on those facts.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
I would call it 7 amps each to be safe as far as wiring (hi or low only, not both)
Halogens are 4-6 average each if I remember.
slantsixdan
=..=
LOL at the notion of free time. Y'wanna know why my name seems to pop up everywhere when the topic of car lights comes up? Because I'm one of not a whole lot of experts on the subject. I'm a task force chairman in the SAE Lighting Systems Group, helping write and update the technical standards for vehicle lighting devices and systems. I'm an appointed member of the National Academy of Sciences Transportation Research Board, helping steer and review research on matters related to driver vision. I'm General Editor of DrivingVisionNews, the global vehicle lighting and driver-assistance industry's technical and trade journal. I help organise symposiums and technical conferences, I serve as a go-to answer man in reputable news media (example, example), I've been hired by Canadian provinces and US states to write (or re-write) their vehicle lighting inspection protocols (example). I've contributed text to US, Canadian, and international vehicle lighting regulations. I've served as an expert witness and as a consultant. I've written enormous market analysis reports all about vehicle lighting, because that's my professional field and area of expertise. Any of that sound to you like a shady dude with tons of spare time?
Go look at post № 11 (and others I've made) in this thread. Links, lots of 'em, to pages I don't own where you can buy specific lamps and bulbs complete with actual, real part numbers!
I've gotten in discussions about past-model lights from time to time, but they're of limited practical value; discontinued lights are well discontinued! Most people want lamps they can actually buy without a hassle or an extended hunting trip. Take another look at the links in my posts in this thread, for example they're all live links to "buy it now" pages on Amazon and other places, and a recommendation for Crackedback's relay setups. Point, click, buy, done. Break one? Point, click, buy, done. Where's the problem?
Oh, shoot, the jig is up you've caught me. I have a collection of old stuff and sometimes I sell some of it. I guess there's no point in trying to pretend any more; it was a vast conspiracy involving me, myself (the ringleader), and I to clear some space in my garage and basement and raise some cash. :twisted:
Y'see, people collect stuff. Some people collect model cars (or real ones). Some people collect baseball cards. Some people collect beer bottles. Me, I collect headlamps (don't judge me!) Seriously, though, I can think of a few times where a few guys on a Jeep forum had a hard-on for a particularly good (and sadly discontinued) headlamp. I didn't have enough of them for everyone who wanted a pair, but I pointed to other stashes other people had and I think most people got what they wanted. And from time to time someone doing a big-bucks resto of a fancy car wants a specific, particular set of lights. If I have them, great, everyone's happy. If I don't have them but I know where they can get 'em, I point them there, great, everyone's happy. Kind of like I donno just about any other kind of part for just about any kind of old car. That's why we have swap meets and online classifieds. Some people just wanna keep it driveable, and some people are doing 200-point restorations, and all god's critters got a place in the choir.
Very true. I seem to recall saying something very similar in post № 11 of this very thread.
And what spare time I do have, I divide up as I see fit. Some of it, I spend online educating people about car lights and helping people troubleshoot and fix other stuff I know about (slant-6 engines, the occasional lawnmower engine, meatloaf gaskets, etc), at $0.00/hour.
Now: What do you do for a living, sir? I'm asking for a friend who doesn't know anything about you, but thinks you're kinda shady.
A very impressive list Dan. I knew you were much more than a guy that knows something about automotive bulbs. Thanks for chiming in! tmm
slantsixdan
=..=
Watts divided by volts equals amps. Be careful to use the right watts and volts, though. Wattages are a little more difficult to compare than it might seen, because there are nominal wattages and actual wattages.
The "12v, 60/55w" rating of a common H4 or 9003 bulb (found on the bulb package and in the owner's manual), for example, is a nominal rating at 12.0 volts. The regulation
governing car headlamp bulbs in North America lists maximum ratings at 12.8 volts, while the regulation in Europe (used throughout the rest of the world) gives nominal 12v and maximum 13.2v wattage ratings. Because wattage increases with voltage, all of these numbers are different. Here are all of the specs on that "12v, 60/55w" bulb:
International regulation says:
60/55w at 12.0v, nominal wattage
75/68w at 13.2v, maximum wattage
US regulation says:
72/65w at 12.8v, maximum wattage
This is not three different bulbs, it is the permissible specifications of ONE bulb at three different test voltages!
No need to go digging through the regulations to find the actual wattage specs for whatever type of bulb you're working with; just apply a 25% margin (multiply the nominal "on the box" wattage by 1.25) and divide by 12.8v and you'll get amp figures that are a little overstated, but that just means you'll wind up using wires and parts a little heavier-duty than they have to be; nothing wrong with that.
So, still looking at that "12v, 60/55w" H4 bulb:
60 × 1.25 = 75
55 × 12.5 = 69
75 ÷ 12.8 = 5.9 amps on high beam
69 ÷ 12.8 = 5.4 amps on low beam
Per headlamp.
I like to use relays with capacity well in excess of what's needed. Reliable-brand 20A or 30A relays are readily available in a variety of configurations.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
LOL at the notion of free time. Y'wanna know why my name seems to pop up everywhere when the topic of car lights comes up? Because I'm one of not a whole lot of experts on the subject. I'm a task force chairman in the SAE Lighting Systems Group, helping write and update the technical standards for vehicle lighting devices and systems. I'm an appointed member of the National Academy of Sciences Transportation Research Board, helping steer and review research on matters related to driver vision. I'm General Editor of DrivingVisionNews.com , the global vehicle lighting industry's technical and trade journal. I help organise symposiums and technical conferences, I serve as a go-to answer man in reputable news media (example, example), I've been hired by Canadian provinces and US states to write (or re-write) their vehicle lighting inspection protocols (example). I've contributed text to US, Canadian, and international vehicle lighting regulations. I've served as an expert witness and as a consultant. I've written enormous market analysis reports all about vehicle lighting, because that's my professional field and area of expertise. Any of that sound to you like a shady dude with tons of spare time?
Go look at post № 11 (and others I've made) in this thread. Links, lots of 'em, to pages I don't own where you can buy specific lamps and bulbs complete with actual, real part numbers!
I've gotten in discussions about past-model lights from time to time, but they're of limited practical value; discontinued lights are well discontinued! Most people want lamps they can actually buy without a hassle or an extended hunting trip. Take another look at the links in my posts in this thread, for example they're all live links to "buy it now" pages on Amazon and other places, and a recommendation for Crackedback's relay setups. Point, click, buy, done. Break one? Point, click, buy, done. Where's the problem?
Oh, shoot, the jig is up you've caught me. I have a collection of old stuff and sometimes I sell some of it. I guess there's no point in trying to pretend any more; it was a vast conspiracy involving me, myself (the ringleader), and I to clear some space in my garage and basement and raise some cash. :twisted:
Y'see, people collect stuff. Some people collect model cars (or real ones). Some people collect baseball cards. Some people collect beer bottles. Me, I collect headlamps (don't judge me!) Seriously, though, I can think of a few times where a few guys on a Jeep forum had a hard-on for a particularly good (and sadly discontinued) headlamp. I didn't have enough of them for everyone who wanted a pair, but I pointed to other stashes other people had and I think most people got what they wanted. And from time to time someone doing a big-bucks resto of a fancy car wants a specific, particular set of lights. If I have them, great, everyone's happy. If I don't have them but I know where they can get 'em, I point them there, great, everyone's happy. Kind of like I donno just about any other kind of part for just about any kind of old car. That's why we have swap meets and online classifieds. Some people just wanna keep it driveable, and some people are doing 200-point restorations, and all god's critters got a place in the choir.
Very true. I seem to recall saying something very similar in post № 11 of this very thread.
Now: What do you do for a living, sir? I'm asking for a friend who doesn't know anything about you, but thinks you're kinda shady.
I hope you have all that already written so you can just copy and paste it like I suggested.
slantsixdan
=..=
I hope you have all that already written so you can just copy and paste it like I suggested.
Naw, I wrote it in my spare time.
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