more power (help)

[slantsixdan]

I presume by "smog" Bewy means pollution that creates a visible haze rather than any specific chemical

Multiple things can cause visible haze. Particulates (smoke/soot) is one. Photochemical smog is another, and it doesn't just come out of tailpipes. It's the result of chemical reactions between sunlight and NOx (nitrogen oxides) and hydrocarbons. So yeah, this is a matter of specific chemicals.

I'll take his word for it that he's seeing more of that.

I won't. This isn't something that can be judged by declaring that what we think we see today is worse than what we think we remember we think we saw 35 years ago. It's also not something that can be judged by something OP got on ragebait talk radio or social media.

In the case of leaded gas, it (1) cuts out a rather nasty pollutant on its own, and (2) allows running catalytic converters, O2 sensors, and other emissions controls that create further pollution reduction, but won't do that on its own.

Even without a catalyst, the exhaust from an engine running on unleaded is significantly cleaner, both moment-to-moment and in the long run, than that same engine running on leaded. There's a mountain of data on this point, too.

So I could see a scenario where a switch to leaded gas on its own combined with an area ending up with more cars that do not have other emissions controls could end up with visible local smog levels rising even if the smog is less toxic.

A switch to unleaded fuel means less toxic pollution and less of it, even when some or all of the cars don't have catalysts. There are, however, more causes of smog and other kinds of air pollution, other than just motor vehicles. Wildfires (bushfires, in Australia), industrial emissions, etc. A thoughtless person goes "There! You see! It's not the cars, it's [whatever other source of air-crap]! Those do-gooders forced unleaded fuel on us fer no reazon!". A thoughtful person realizes that even if the air is still polluted, and even if it's worse than it was at some point in the past, if car exhausts hadn't been cleaned up, the air would be that much dirtier now.

 

[Bewy]

Something not being considered, leaded to unleaded: the switch in this country was in the mid 1980s. That was the same time that the carburetor era was ending & EFI was starting. EFI allows for much better fuel control; bottom line: EFI cars are more efficient. That means less pollution. If lead had been retained, we could have used higher comp ratios, that gave more efficiency & engine size could be reduced. Result: less pollution. I accept that lead is a pollutant, but it is just one of many...
And if you believe in 'govt' statistics, here is something to ponder.......
- The Australian Bureau of Meteorology has temp readings for the Simpson Desert in Sth Australia between the end of WW 1 into the 1930s. Problem is.....there were no temp recording devices there during that period.....So if you wanted to 'fudge' figures [ the govt wouldn't do that....would they....] you make those readings low to make it appear that temps have risen..
- Latrobe st. Melbourne, Australia. It had a Stephenson Enclosure [ mail box-like enclosure for housing a thermometer or temp recording device ]. Some years ago, a multi storey bldg was built directly across the road, blocking the cooling southerly winds coming of Antarctica. Well surprise, surprise average temps at that location increased by 2*C. No doubt that will be blamed on global warming...

 

[Oldiron440]

Thirty five years ago I new a guy that cleaned parts with gasoline, I’ll give you one guess what he died of…
He started this working with his dad on the farm and never quit. Led poisoning is an ugly way to die

 

[Killer6]

While this thread has gone off the rails, I'll add this;
1) Tetraethyl Lead has no rival in anti-knock properties, it's not even close, like over a factor of 10 to it's nearest replacement. Unfortunately it is toxic poison.
2) Just because We can't see smog, or have seen a reduction in some airborne pollutants, doesn't nessesarily mean the environment is better/safer. Many of the 'cleaner replacements' are poisonous as well. It's hilarious how quickly the MTBE forever poisoning ground water has been forgotten, because the perps who see themselves as Your masters, and the compliant/complicit media dropped it from the conversation & simply waited for You to forget.
3) Cigarettes are bad for You, and I hate smoking, and yet....it does NOT mean You'll get lung cancer. I have cystular granulomas, working My whole life on vehicles and in general, I've inhaled so many things burning or not I couldn't possibly count them. I'm asked, almost in a confrontational manner repeatedly.."you're sure you've never smoked?", during checkups. My Lady friend?,...smoking for over 45yrs....lungs clear as a bell. My late Grandmother?, smoked from age 14 until She passed at age 84, lungs clear as a bell...and She would've started sometime in the mid-'20's....She wasn't smoking pussy-*** coffin nails.

What I'm stating here is, not everything is as cut-&-dried as We'd like, & for those of us who do things like head porting, puzzles & lessons & the unexpected are part of the deal......and so is life.
By no means should We stop trying to make things better, but by no means should We assume that We ARE, just because We're trying. The air is cleaner than it's ever been since the industrial revolution, yet there plenty of folks who lived through it all and are just passing in their '90's........and I've watched classmates get buried from smoking before they could make our 20th class reunion.

 

[MadScientistMat]

Leaded gas and EFI isn't a winning combination. You can already get compression ratios in the 10:1 or 11:1 range on modern unleaded blends, so more compression than that is chasing diminishing returns. And it will kill O2 sensors and catalytic converter, fast. Like 50 hours of run time for some sensors.You seldom see leaded gas / EFI builds outside of drag or land speed racing. Even other racing applications typically prefer the extra sensors over extra octane.

 

[Killer6]

Something not being considered, leaded to unleaded: the switch in this country was in the mid 1980s. That was the same time that the carburetor era was ending & EFI was starting. EFI allows for much better fuel control; bottom line: EFI cars are more efficient. That means less pollution. If lead had been retained, we could have used higher comp ratios, that gave more efficiency & engine size could be reduced. Result: less pollution. I accept that lead is a pollutant, but it is just one of many...
And if you believe in 'govt' statistics, here is something to ponder.......
- The Australian Bureau of Meteorology has temp readings for the Simpson Desert in Sth Australia between the end of WW 1 into the 1930s. Problem is.....there were no temp recording devices there during that period.....So if you wanted to 'fudge' figures [ the govt wouldn't do that....would they....] you make those readings low to make it appear that temps have risen..
- Latrobe st. Melbourne, Australia. It had a Stephenson Enclosure [ mail box-like enclosure for housing a thermometer or temp recording device ]. Some years ago, a multi storey bldg was built directly across the road, blocking the cooling southerly winds coming of Antarctica. Well surprise, surprise average temps at that location increased by 2*C. No doubt that will be blamed on global warming...

Dude, new engines are running OVER 13:1 ON 87 PUMP REGULAR, get with the times bro'.........

 

[remytherat]

Lead being removed was necessary for catalytic converters, because lead--like zinc in oil--wrecks them. Modern catalytic converters are the #1 reason the air quality in all major cities has improved over the last 40 years. Photochemical smog needs NOx (and mainly NO2) along with HCs (and UV light as a catalyst) in the atmosphere to form. Catalytic converts reduce both of these by orders of magnitude. The ambient lead levels have also fallen everywhere in the word, and the IQs of children growing up near freeways has increased. Leaded gas was always a bad idea. Ever since its introduction in the early 20th century, leaded gasoline manufacturers new that tetraethyl lead was extremely toxic, and worked tirelessly to cover up the evidence.


Too bad it's also ******* great. Smells great, doesn't go bad, valve seats last longer, higher compression.


But sometimes you have to consider that not being retarded (or in my case not quite as retarded as I already am) is worth slightly lower cranking compression numbers.

Or not, you crazy bastards.

 

[jos51700]

I just miss the way gasoline used to smell in the '80's. This thread is so far off the tracks, I might as well put another penny on the rail.

 

[nutz]

Or mercury thermometers, OP’s favorite thing to crack open and play with

i like beaking flouresent lights and huffing the white powder

 

[nutz]

Dude, new engines are running OVER 13:1 ON 87 PUMP REGULAR, get with the times bro'.........

my 13 audi a8 has 560hp and 465 ft lb with a simple program can drive at 120mph all day with the a/c on 4 people in it and get 22mpg doing it and pass ca emissions ...i don't see anything wrong with unleaded and cats
nothing wrong with emission controls it all in the way they are done

 

[Killer6]

my 13 audi a8 has 560hp and 465 ft lb with a simple program can drive at 120mph all day with the a/c on 4 people in it and get 22mpg doing it and pass ca emissions ...i don't see anything wrong with unleaded and cats
nothing wrong with emission controls it all in the way they are done

The key is the engineering, technology/materials, and almost complete engine management.........
New engines literally have electronic thermostats & zone valves to manage engine temps, total control of valve timing & KIA/Hyundai has variable valve duration close to 5 years( BMW poss. longer diff. system), obviously total control of fuel & spark maps, oil jets that shoot oil into passages that actually pass thru' the underside of the piston crown, the VVT allows for internal EGR & temp/airflow effects...etc.....etc....
The Godawful old days,...which I lived as a professional Tech, of non-feedback/feedback carbs with a ton of unreliable; TVS's/timers/amplifiers/VCS's/sensors/transducers/pellet bed cats/......and flow charts....lots of flow charts.......
Are thankfully for the most part behind us....sure they've been replaced by new problems,...constant re-flashes..(which are a real riot when they crash mid-update)...but the resulting performance, general reliability, efficiency, & reduced output of real pollutants(NOT CO2) has been better on average all around. Not to even start the convo on safety equipment.

 

[Charrlie_S]

And data being sent to the OEM so they can sell the data to data brokers/insurance companies.

 

[nutz]

Yeah I worked on the stupid feed back junk
I think the first of the new age was the tune port
I mean now you can buy 1000hp cars that pass emissions is crazy
Thats why my dart is going all stock 340
Sure can build it for more hp
but more for the nostalgia don't think it will ever run like the a8 but who cares it's more about the smell feel and sounds

 

[slantsixdan]

Leaded gas was always a bad idea.

Yup. It's been called "the mistake of the 20th century", with good reason. And

Ever since its introduction in the early 20th century, leaded gasoline manufacturers new that tetraethyl lead was extremely toxic, and worked tirelessly to cover up the evidence.

That's right; very much so. A lot like the tobacco industry. And we're still paying an ugly price. Here's something fun to consider: the lead-crime theory, which has a lot of evidence behind it, basically says that the brain damage caused by high blood-lead levels (which, in turn, are mostly caused by cars running on leaded fuel) shows up in severely antisocial/criminal behaviour when people thus poisoned are about 18 to 20 years old. Which means even when a country switches to unleaded, there's still at least one time-bomb generation growing up. Here's a partial list of countries and the years they banned leaded motor fuel:

Afghanistan: 2016
Saudi Arabia: 2001
Iran: 2003
Iraq: 2018
United Arab Emirates: 2003
Yemen: 2018
Russia: 2003
China: 2000
Algeria: 2021
North Korea: 2016

Too bad it's also ******* great. Smells great, doesn't go bad

I agree with you that today's gasoline smells noxious in ways it didn't used to, years ago. But don't kid y'self; leaded gasoline definitely went bad. The gasoline of the past was much more prone than today's to degrade into gum and varnish. The lead didn't do anything to make it degrade ither slower/less or faster/worse, that I know of.

valve seats last longer

Well, soft ones do, yeah.

But sometimes you have to consider that not being retarded (or in my case not quite as retarded as I already am) is worth slightly lower cranking compression numbers.

Amen!

 

[Woody500]

Let Me guess, politicians & bureaucratic 'experts' tole' You,.......even when they are correct, they have no idea why, ..........maybe Huckleberry Hound will hop on His private jet that burns unicorn farts & fly out to tell You which bugs to eat, & which sandals to wear while You forage for them in the outback.........

He 'feels' its spot on.

 

[Woody500]

Dan,
The same people in Australia that are telling you unleaded fuel 'worked' are telling us Aussies that renewable energy [ wind, solar ] will reduce power prices. So far, my power bill has almost doubled & is expected to keep increasing. Believe what you like.

Prices keep going up after promises of overseas factories(1st Mexico, then China) bilt **** would be cheaper, just for capitalists to make more profits.
Put some of the blame where it belongs. Pols infuenced by same.
Capitalism good, runaway Capitalism not quite as good!

 

[Charrlie_S]

Boy, did this train get off the rails

 

[Kendog 170]

 

[junkyardhero]

Boy, did this train get off the rails

yes, but it did give us the term "hog *** cam" which has now entered the FABO lexicon.

gotta celebrate those small wins.

 

[Woody500]

Boy, did this train get off the rails

Once again, I'm just commenting on what someone else brought up.

 

[MadScientistMat]

The thread took a wrong turn early on when it got argumentative. The only way to fix it would be to start a new thread and this time have the original poster be a bit more open to the possibility that some of the tests weren't the final word - e.g. cam timing on the dots isn't as accurate as a degree wheel, and doesn't answer what the spark timing is doing at all.

 

[MidnightSwinger]

yes, but it did give us the term "hog *** cam" which has now entered the FABO lexicon.

gotta celebrate those small wins.

That’s Chevy speak, just fyi…

 

[junkyardhero]

That’s Chevy speak, just fyi…

well. now i just feel dirty.

excuse me, i need to find some bleach and a stiff bristle brush.

but yeah... i suppose that tracks with *waves hands* alllll of that.

 

[MadScientistMat]

We could shorten it to "ham cam".

 

[MidnightSwinger]

well. now i just feel dirty.

excuse me, i need to find some bleach and a stiff bristle brush.

but yeah... i suppose that tracks with *waves hands* alllll of that.

lol Hey Ace you got anymore of that gum?