Need help with emissions...

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Intense-Dakota

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Ok, so on Tuesday I took my dart in for Illinois Emissions and well it failed in the HC (hydrocarbon were 2700ppm, only 900ppm allowed). I do not think it could be running that rich but anything is possible. I tuned it up right before going to the emissions place. I am pulling about 14-15psi vacuum at idle and about 12-14psi in gear. And I have leaned it out to almost stalling when put into gear. I am not burning any oil and the plugs are new. However I did notice one major thing. I just replaced the plug wires about 1 1/2 months ago with Taylor wires and the back to drivers side wires are already cracked. When i replaced the wires I spent the $20 and got boot covers for those two since they were right againt the headers and had previously split. I checked the boots when the engine was warmed up and they were at about 160 degrees so the covers are working. I was wondering if this may be why I failed the test (possible not burning those cylinders all the way). Now, I looked Jegs and they have a set of Accell Plug wires that actually have ceramic boots and shielded wires (they are $130 though), would this stop this cracking from happening or do you have cheaper suggestions on wires.

PS> I do have the headers wrapped and the those 2 cylinders are wrapped reall good.
 
If you have it too lean, you're HC will be too high because it doesn't burn well. Richen it a little.
 
Have you changed your oil recently? The engine oil will absorb unburnt fuel and show up on a smog test as unburnt hydrocarbon's. While the engine is running, the carb will pull the hydrocarbons in through your PCV valve and it then goes out your tailpipe. Change your oil just before you take the car in to be tested. That's how I used to pass my smog test until my car got too old for it. Here in California once it got 30 years old, it's exempt. Recently our "Terminator" Governor (Mr. Schwarzenegger) changed that so anything built after 1976 has to be smog checked - no matter how old it gets. Glad I have a 69!
 
I recently changed the oil pan gasket so all of the old oil was drained out over night and new oild was put in about 1 week ago. How can I tell if it is too rich or lean. I have it set right now were I am idleing at about 700 in park and about 650 in gear and I have a steady 14psi pressure. I dont have an A/F meter installed, But I was thinking about installed a wideband o2 and a meter. Will just give me acurate readings (in terms of passing emissions on the HC side?).
 
Are you running an aftermarket cam? If so, what are the specs? Make sure the air filter is not dirty either.
 
the car does have very noticable cam in it (not sure on the specs as it was in there when I bought the car).

The reading were as follows:

HC My Reading 2575 (standard 900) PPM
CO My Reading 5.9 (Standard 9.0) %
CO2 My Reading 6.6 %

Now, I do not have the PCV connected (its not on at all actually) this would not have an effect would it?
 
try the pcv to start.

My 1964 Valiant, has PCV, being a California build car.

Surprised your car didn't fail a visual;
because of the pcv being missing.

Make sure air can get in the other valve cover,\
air-in; air-out.
 
I always wondered...How hard is it going to be to get older cars to pass emissions? As they get older the original emission equipment will get harder to find. Also, what standards do they have to meet? I would assume they would be required to meet the standards of the year they were built.

It's dumb either way...there are so few old cars driven daily they have little to no impact on pollution.

Glad I live in Texas...Even where we DO have emissions testing, anything over 25yrs is exempt.
 
illinois does not do a visual inspection, just an idle test. I have breathers on both valve covers. I would expect the PCV to raise the emissions if connected, do you think it would actually lower them?
 
CO is definately to high and on the rich side big time. Its either too rich or there is a mis-fire happening. Carbon dioxide should be higher as well 6.6 is low. Carbon dioxide is a great indicator of what is going on with the engine, or how complete the burn is. Having a mis-fire can definately raise the HC's and give you the readings you are getting. I would double check your timing, and all ignition components then go after the carb. How do the plugs look? Color wise. What is your idle RPM? I always like to work on ignition first and fuel second. Hope this helps!

Dan
 
I have been thinking about changing over to the mopar orange box becuase the current box I think is having problems. When I check the timing, it bounces back and forth about 5-10 degrees around 0.. I have already changed the distributor and the plugs look perfect. The big thing is that I have already replaced the plug wires about 1 month ago and now they are splitting on the drivers side back 2 plugs. (read above). I am more use to Fuel injected trucks, but in effort to try not so sound stupid, should the timing stay steady when hitting it with the timing light, or jump around a little bit.
 
Intense-Dakota said:
illinois does not do a visual inspection, just an idle test. I have breathers on both valve covers. I would expect the PCV to raise the emissions if connected, do you think it would actually lower them?
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I don't think open breathers have any benefit over PCV valve when it comes to reduction of HC. PCV valve system actually reintroduces the crankcase gases back into your carb to help stimulate the combustion process on street engines. But it looks like your HC count is way over its limit of 900 so I doubt this is your only problem.
 
Intense-Dakota said:
When I check the timing, it bounces back and forth about 5-10 degrees around 0..




That's not right. Sounds like the timing chain, oil pump drive, the drive bushing, or all 3 are bad. It hsould not jump around, amybe a degree or two, but not 10. However, you should still be able to get it to pass. You havent answered about the engine specs, cam type, etc. Do you know what's in there? From those readings, I'd say you are fairly close to getting "as good as you can" with how it's set up now. I dont think those two cracked boots are hurting, unless it really misfires, and those readings tell me it isnt. At least at idle. What carburetor do you have? What fuel octane? Where is the timing set to? Fill in the details...it may save you money in parts that dont need replacement...
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Definately should not be doing that. As long as the rpm's are steady so should the timing mark. I would also check your distributor to make sure that it is good, as in no play and the weights are not missing any springs. I wouldn't go with the Mopar orange boxes, those things are big piles. I would call Don at FBO systems. I bought his ignition kit and had him curve a distributor for me. He is sometimes hard to get on the phone, but well worth it. Now that you said that about the ignition I would almost be 100% certain that is where the failure is.

Dan
 
moper said:
Intense-Dakota said:
When I check the timing, it bounces back and forth about 5-10 degrees around 0..




That's not right. Sounds like the timing chain, oil pump drive, the drive bushing, or all 3 are bad. It hsould not jump around, amybe a degree or two, but not 10. However, you should still be able to get it to pass. You havent answered about the engine specs, cam type, etc. Do you know what's in there? From those readings, I'd say you are fairly close to getting "as good as you can" with how it's set up now. I dont think those two cracked boots are hurting, unless it really misfires, and those readings tell me it isnt. At least at idle. What carburetor do you have? What fuel octane? Where is the timing set to? Fill in the details...it may save you money in parts that dont need replacement...
Click to expand...

Also, on the carb, has it been rejetted?
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I purchased the car with alot of work already done to it, but here is everything I know for sure....

Holley Carb (have not been able to ID, but I believe it is a 600CFM, not sure about jets)
Cam is unknown, it is not stock and is noticable at idle.
Heads are 302 swirlport and have had a port/polish job previous to me getting the car.
Offenhauser Single Plane intake
Autolite 3923 plugs at stock GAP
Heddman Headers w/ Jegs 2.5inch X-Pipe and Flowmaster 40 series

I have tried 2 distributors including a brand new one that is currently on the engine. I have also swapped ignition box's, becuase the original one was pushing the timing off by about 30degrees, as soon as I replaced the box, I was finally able to get it timed. It is not missing at all that I can tell, I can pull it all the way to about 5000rpms in 1st and never have it bog, back off or stutter at all.

I did put some fuel system cleaner in the car about 1-2 weeks prior to testing, but that was also about a full tank that was emptied and refilled once before testing.

How are wideband O2 sensors and gauge for tuning the fuel mixture (is it any better or worse then working with a vacuum gauge off the carb.)

I have been thinking about just replacing the carb with a new Holley or Edelbrock, but I don't have the money to spend if it is not absolutly needed.
 
The Holley carbs, such as the 0-1850 series are calibrated for performance right out of the box. This means larger than stock jetting for headers, etc. Unless you have one of Holleys street legal carbs (I doubt this, because you have cam and headwork done) it will be difficult to pass smog. I think your problem is not spark related, but more of how much fuel your motor is taking in. Rich jetting & cam in particular. I am basing my knowledge from emissions classes that I took when I was in automotive school. I am hoping someone else here in California with some experience can offer some insight into tuning (leaner jets, timing, etc) to get you to pass. I know this doesn't help you much, but I hope it narrows the problem down.
 
Forgot to mention it in the last post.. I am running 92 octane fuel.. Do you think the single plane intake would have any adverse effect. I do have an edelbrock dual plane that I could swap, but that is a huge pain in the rear.
 
WOW! Can't help you on your propblem but I am shocked that you are subject to emissions testing in IL on a 70's vintage car. I though all states were exempting old cars from testing.

Here in Mass if it's 84 or older it's exempt and if it's 96 or newer they just check for store OBD II codes (no testing).
 
High HC readings are from unburned fuel. so look at the following

1.incomplete combustion

2. improper timing

3. ign wires

4. poor compression

What was the 02 reading? This will tell you about you fuel mixture.

High 02 = lean mixture, vac leaks or ign problems

Low 02 = rich fuel mix, too much fuel. Check the spark plugs to see what

color they are. Black means to much fuel. Tan with some white (from

additives) is more of a normal running engine. If the 02 is high and the plugs

are black take the carb aprt and look at the jet size, then lean down

( smaller number) Den
 
yeh, its pretty damn stupid if you ask me.. When I failed the lady said "obviously one of your emissions control devices are not not working"... I responded with "well obviously it is 36 years old and does'nt have any emissions control devices". So she said "the carburator is an emissions control device and that is why i have to take the test"..

The readings are as follows:

HC - 2575ppm (standard 900)
CO 5.9% (standard 9.0)
CO2 6.6% (standard n/a)

So right now I am looking into ways to not have to take the test. I believe if I either get vintage plates or get the car registered with NHRA (it will eventually be a race only car anyway), that I wont have to take the emissions test. But I am still looking into both of those.

I am also going to try to ID the carb and the jets this weekend.

The only things I know about the carb right now, are this

Electric Choke
Vacuum Secondaries
Single Fuel inlet with pipe between front and rear bowls
Its a holley, but all the numbers I have ran so far come up with bupkiss..
 
Pull a few of the plugs out and look at them this may tell the story. Holley carbs are very easy to work on. You can get the jets at about any speed shop. Maybe at Autozone to> Den
 
It's worth finding the cause not only for clean air but THE CAR WILL HAVE MORE POWER WHEN TUNED UP WITH THE CORRECT FUEL MIXTURE. Most guys just throw a carb on the manifold and it runs so they let it go. Spend the time to tune it and you'll like the car a lot more. Den
 
I just found out from the secretary of state that if I get the antique plates I will not be required to pass emissions testing, however I still want to find out what is causing this. I am going to tear down the carb this weekend and find out what jets are in it becuase the car came from Colorado and I am in Illinois. With the setup previously listed what size jets would everyone recomend. I am thinking probably around a 60.. But I have never rejetted a carb before honestly.


PS-- YOU GUYS ROCK!!
I have learned more from you guys then any book or class could ever teach me. Thanks.
 
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