New Edy heads, poor quality control what to do

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femtnmax

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Just received new Edel RPM LA heads assembled from Summit. Boy is the quality control lacking. Exhaust guide locations clear off the formed pad in the roof of the port, so you see the guide all the way down to the port roof itself. Also all the exh ports are offset to the left on BOTH heads vs the CNC finish for the port exit. So the exh ports kinda have a dogleg to the right just before the port exit. ONe exh manifold bolt hole is drilled thru into the exh port due to the port shift. All the machining when viewed from above is offset somewhat vs the casting.
I could run these edel heads, maybe trim the exh valve guides a little short in the ports so they don't heat up so much. Blend out the dogleg and accept the performance whatever it is, shouldn't change too much.

I'll tell you what...I'm building a 1400 cc engine for a 1979 Datsun 210 right now, has aluminum head with heart shaped combustion chamber...there is absolutely NO core shift or mis-drilling. The casting of the port walls, etc is thin, so the finished part had to be dead nuts on. This tells me quality alum heads can be mass produced.

So what to do....
this is not going on a race car build, no its for a street only car. I wanted the Alum weight savings and detonation tolerance, plus was switching to shaft rocker setup for reliablity...long road trips to shows out of state. So looked into the RHS heads. Internet said the RHS heads come in heavy at 62 lb each, compared to 50 lb for two alum heads, so I would be adding 74 lb by going to cast iron. I put the battery in the trunk, and with RHS I'd be dumping another battery weight back into the front again.

Engine combo is LA 360, with Ross forged flat top pistons; quench is 0.044 inch. Compression is 10.8:1 which works real well for my altitlude of 5000 feet. If I go cast iron heads (RHS) then combustion chamber volume needs to be 68cc to drop compression ratio to 10.0:1. I"m concerned this ratio is a little higher than with the alum heads (10.8 - 1 = 9.8ish), and I don't know if the cc's of the RHS heads can be brought up from 62 to 68 without too much chamber reshaping. Also the detonation tolerance of any engine drops with time/miles. I don't mind using premium pump gas, but you don't always get a good batch, and detonation shows itself real quick pulling mountain passes in my neck of the woods.

Any comments or suggestions welcome.
 
yea, easy!. if they are as stated, SEND THEM BACK, AND TAKE PICS TO PROVE IT. summit has good cusstomer relations from my past experience. i bought a raD from them, got damaged during shipment, they sent new one asap, and told me to keep the damaged one!
 
340plot said:
yea, easy!. if they are as stated, SEND THEM BACK, AND TAKE PICS TO PROVE IT. summit has good cusstomer relations from my past experience. i bought a raD from them, got damaged during shipment, they sent new one asap, and told me to keep the damaged one!
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X2 on that! Send those back. For the hell of it, I'd email a letter (not a super pissed off one) with pictures to Edelbrock to inform them of the issue. Buddy of mine ordered a top end kit for a Chevy, something was wrong with the intake and Edelbrock paid shipping both ways and even upgrade the entire setup to the endura shine version for free. He was even happier when they threw in an endura shine water.
 
From what everyone has always said about Eddy's QC, your next set wont be any better, it is standard procedure on their end. This is why everyone says they need to be gone thru again by a competent machine shop.
 
There is no question as to the answer, take pictures get a hold of a rep. at Summit and tell him/her that you are sending the heads back care of him/her and point out the discrepancies. Sit on them to long and you'll own them.
 
well on a differant note...the heads on my 416 are Eddy RPMs and when they flowed mine..not even close to what they said from factory specs...the rest of the heads not that must better...they tore mine down and redid them completely....took a month for them to get them to me for my block...but now they are whewre they should be....if you have the time..send them back for another set...or...redo them if you have the coin...or...buy a pair of RHS Heads JMO
 
sounds like the eddelbrok made in america by way of china like there valve covers,,,
 
The ironic part,Edelbrock has their own foundry.Had the same problem with my Eddys,did a lot of port work to fix mine.
 
I bought my Eddy,s from a member,when I had them checked they flowed 240cfm OTB.After paying for some clean up porting,guides,springs they got them flowing in the 275cfm range.Cost me but am happy with the results.:D I have close to $2000 plus the cost of Pro Magnum rockers,Manley push rods.
View attachment car pics 66 Dart 104.jpg
 
Pictures of the problems is a good idea. As said Summit is good about returns. I'm not sure if they will go thru boxes to find two good ones. I could also get $$ back from Summit, and check around, see if MRL or such has a set or access to good sets, have them prep them. More $$ but at least have a good set of heads.
I sent a note to Edelbrock, but no photos...see if they even respond.
Yes I agree, don't want to sit on them or I'm stuck with them.
 
Definetly send them back WITH photos!! Contact Edelbrock and let them know about the screwup. I did it with my RPM intake and they "said" thanks and would take care of the mistake on their end. Don't settle for a new set of heads that are not correct!!! Summit is the middle man and if they received a batch of heads that were made at the same time by the same incompetent CNC operator, machinist, then you may end up with and identical set. Be sure to let Edelbrock know about this and don't take no for and answer or anything else less than "we'll make it right for you".

Good luck!
 
I normally defend the usual machining issues with the RPM heads. But if the castings are pff that much, I'd send them back and get replacements.
 
I got my edelbrock rpm heads about 5-6 years ago and they were terrible. I had the shop that did my motor do a quick valve job and some minor port work. The guides were so tight that several valves would hardly move by hand with the springs off. The worst part that even my shop missed that I found was the oil hole to the rocker shafts-one head the hole was only broke 1/3 of the way through and the other head was not drilled through at all- I had to drill the last .030" of it! I have no doubt if the shop wouldn't have redone the valve guides or if I hadn't checked the oil holes these heads would have wrecked my engine on break in.
 
I just have to ask ( and I'm not tryin to stir the pot) I understand that head selection especially aluminum for a small block mopar is hard, but how does edelbrock justify those high prices and then such sloppy work for their cylinder heads???? For the price I've seen and read about I would think that the heads shouldn't have that many problems, and then would need 1500 + , more to "correct" the problems that should have not been there....Again I'm not tryin to kick up any problems, just was wondering.....
 
This Bad Demon said:
I just have to ask ( and I'm not tryin to stir the pot) I understand that head selection especially aluminum for a small block mopar is hard, but how does edelbrock justify those high prices and then such sloppy work for their cylinder heads???? For the price I've seen and read about I would think that the heads shouldn't have that many problems, and then would need 1500 + , more to "correct" the problems that should have not been there....Again I'm not tryin to kick up any problems, just was wondering.....
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Makes you kinda laugh when I think about Vic Jr. in his commercials exclaiming "Made in America, by Americans" or some such. Yeah, I'd be friggin embarassed if that was my company. Nothing worse than a company blathering on about keeping jobs here, what a great quality product they make, and then you hear about these kind of issues that have been going on since day one. Is it any wonder people are buying 440 Source stuff? It's less expensive, and hey, even if you have to get a couple things straightened out when you get them, you are dollars ahead still in regard to out -of-the-box Edelbrock (which apparently still have to go to the machine shop). Stupid business practice, that's for sure...
 
Someone else posted that they got a crappy set and called Edelbrock on it. The response they got from Edelbrock was that they concentrate their QC on the Chevy heads because that's what sells. Mopar stuff (especially small block) gets little or no QC inspection, or has lower standards.
 
Everyone told me to just buy aluminum heads, instead of doing my X heads. They said it would be cheaper in the long run. Boy, am I glad I didn't listen.
Good luck femtnmax. I hope they will come clean with you, sounds like Summit is pretty good. Theres no way I would accept that kind of workmanship.
 
I sure see a lot of complaints on here about these heads.
I would not buy or pay my hard won money on a defective
or inferior product.
Buy or build what you want.
The weight savings you are looking for will not
offset the headaches of an inferior product.
On a street car, why would you ever consider running
a product that is not ultra dependable.
If your heads have core shift, its probable that there are other problems
like thin walls near torque/load/water bearing surfaces.
You probably would not consider a core shifted block as a
foundation for your build, why mess with the same in a head.
 
longarm said:
I sure see a lot of complaints on here about these heads.
I would not buy or pay my hard won money on a defective
or inferior product.
Buy or build what you want.
The weight savings you are looking for will not
offset the headaches of an inferior product.
On a street car, why would you ever consider running
a product that is not altra dependable.
If your heads have core shift, its probable that there are other problems
like thin walls near torque/load bearing surfaces.
Click to expand...


You will always see the complaints. You'll rarely read about the successes. I agree on most of what you say, especially the severe core shift issue. In terms of "no inferior product"... How would you know if you haven't done this stuff before? These heads are heavily marketed to owner/builders so it's understandable that some would be surprised at what "normal" is. I've personally used about 8 sets of big and small block RPMs over the years and the shop I used to work at probably another 20 sets in makes of Mopar, Chevy, Oldsmobile, and Ford. Plus I've used a couple sets from Indy. All aftermarket assembled heads have similar issues regardless of brand or make. Rarely are they fatal, but all will take away some potential whether it be power or longevity. My own feeling is I make sure I am maximizing the return on the expense and minimizing possible issues by spending a little more to make sure.
In terms of costs, I think a lot of us have grander plans than wallets. I know I do...lol. So we say "all that money" because we're looking at it from the one engine every couple years point of view and its a big deal. If you want the big power you have to get more air in and out. It's nice to also have modern chambers and significantly lighter weight. So you have to spend the money for better heads.
I disagree that people won't notice it. A guy that drives the car... Not cruises, but drives the car whether drag racing or on back roads should be able to notice. I can notice when I've got an extra battery in the trunk, or a full tank vs a low tank of fuel, or soft tires. To a road racer, it's vital to stay as light as you can over the front end to get the balance better. To a drag racer, it's ET drop assuming nothing else is gained by using them.
 
All good points above but, I will never buy an Eddy product again after being very disapointed in Eddies Customer service for a badly manufactured set of new out of the box RPM heads...I paid another $400.00 to have them cleaned & checked and it's a good thing I did. I was happy to buy "bolt on, made in America" and pay a bit more thinking I was getting quality and tech support....WRONG!
 
I bought my Eddy's in 2000 new. I left them in the box until 2006.
my machinist checked them over & didn't find any concerns.
Bolted them on a cheapo short blk, & it ran well.
2007 I built a new short block & changed the valve springs to match the cam.
Set the spring hieghts & did nothing else to them.
They have been on this short block since 2007, starting my 6th season of racing with them.
Maybe the older ones had better quality control.
 
I agree to some extent Moper,but they are touted as bolt ons.
I can't see haveing to spend more to have them checked
and corrected to gain peace of mind.

"So what to do....
this is not going on a race car build, no its for a street only car. I wanted the Alum weight savings and detonation tolerance, plus was switching to shaft rocker setup for reliablity...long road trips to shows out of state. So looked into the RHS heads. Internet said the RHS heads come in heavy at 62 lb each, compared to 50 lb for two alum heads, so I would be adding 74 lb by going to cast iron. I put the battery in the trunk, and with RHS I'd be dumping another battery weight back into the front again."

I think for his use the weight savings could be gained in other areas and still
proform admirably in his arena.

alum waterpump ,dizzy, intake, pulleys, radaitor you get the idea.

I still beleive he would be better served with castiron even with
those comp numbers, I don't think it would be problematic if everything
is properly set up and cooling is up to par.
Possibly the bling factor is involved.
 
"I agree to some extent Moper,but they are touted as bolt ons.
I can't see haveing to spend more to have them checked
and corrected to gain peace of mind."

That's precisely what I mean. It's the marketing. Not the price or the quality control IMO. I look at it like this... My Dad's a retired Pratt & Whitney engineer. There are certain airlines and planes he won't fly on, because he knows things that in the past they did to hurt reliability and safety. I'm ignorant of his concerns and I've told him int he past to drop the issue because it makes me uncomfortable. The fact that I, or some machinists feel "ready to run" is not good enough, is the result of losing the ignorance. By my definition of quality, Indy's assemblies suck worse, as do Hughes/Aerohead, Dart, Brodix, TFS, and MP. It's still my opinion the end justifies the means. But it's all subjective and I can understand other's feelings. There are a couple companies I refuse to use just because of thier treatment of a situation I had in the past.
 
longarm said:
I still beleive he would be better served with castiron even with
those comp numbers, I don't think it would be problematic if everything
is properly set up and cooling is up to par.
Possibly the bling factor is involved.
Click to expand...
All good comments from everyone. I sent email with photos to Edy, will see how they respond.
No bling involved, honestly. Moper's dad worked at P&W, I used to work design at Boeing Aircraft. ONe of the unprinted comments some designers made at work include dont fly on a new generation of aircraft for several years until public use/time works the serious bugs out first. Design aspects like did we pick the right resonant frequencies...no idea as theres never been nacelles built this large before, etc. Too much stiffness adds too much weight...gotta get the weight out. You just try based on all past designs. Then theres the new management who chooses to ignore all past lessons learned so they can make a fast buck today. Look at the 787, all the production problems...thats what happens when you ignore the past.

BAck to the cylinder heads. I'm just trying to be efficient, but maybe too nurdy. The RHS heads would be ok to a point...but there are so so aspects to those heads as well, but maybe they would hold up longer...don't know. Notice there are almost no photos of the RHS intake ports, and comments like ignore the large mirror image rocker stud bumps in the intake tracts...removing them makes no difference. Well if it makes no difference then the port shape must be really poor. They should have designed a more efficient port..kept velocity up.
Not so say edy heads are the cream...this is one of the tough parts of running mopars...limited performance parts to pick from.
Thanks again for your help and ideas. Thats the way I was taught...everything is a team effort.
 
I say so what if the port has something/intrusion in it, either it works well or it doesn't. It's still works better than some of the "pretty" ports in other aluminum heads.

As moper mentioned most of the aftermarket, mass produced ready to run stuff, is usually far from it. I wonder what the assembly room looks like at edelbrock? I know a few people that have some VERY expensive complete hemi and wedge engine doorstops courtesy of Indy who told them to F-off.

I look at most of the aftermarket stuff/claims as going to a blind eye surgeon... no thanks, I'll get a second opinion.
 
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