New Engine, Hard starting, Likes Lots of Advance

[AJ/FormS]

" So I think I will remove that and plug it."
Do not defeat the PCV. Two reasons; 1) the engine will blow the pressure out somewhere else and you wont like it when it does, and 2) the carb is calibrated to have that as a controlled idle-air-bypass. To run with it defeated will require you to crank in the curb-idle screw to increase the throttle opening to recover the idle speed. This will upset the transfer port to idle discharge port synchronization, and cause all kinds of tuning frustration.Dont do it.
As to the HVAC and booster, I just pinch those off. If theres no change in rpm, then theres an excellent chance that theyre fine, and I leave them alone.The booster is a big hose, and if the diaphragm gets to leaking it can be a big tuning issue. The HVAC not so much.

 

[PocketAces]

You have a E4 advanced 4°. It should be happy at 12-15° initial. I advanced my E4 2 degrees and it likes 12° initial.

My cam is advanced 4 degrees of crank rotation, which would be 2 degrees at the cam. Is yours 2 degrees at the crank or at the cam?

 

[67Dart273]

Another factor is whether you are running "intake vacuum" (full vacuum at idle) vs "ported vacuum" (no vacuum at idle) to the distributor. FRANKLY until you get this sorted out I would leave the distributor vacuum connection PLUGGED. I think, but may be wrong, that most of us here run ported vacuum. There is, however a huge controversy about this. "The guy" at FBO ignition advocates running only intake vacuum.

What you use is going to "decide" what you need in the way of a distributor curve.

"Total" timing is nearly always discussed negating vacuum advance.

The "go to" starting performance cure is no more than 20 CRANK degrees of mechanical advance. This means 10 degrees is "in" the distributor

Start with intitial timing of 15 at least and sometimes as much as 20 OR MORE with a big cam. You can set this "normally" (No MSD) with a timing light ON THE STARTER

So let's say, mild cam, you start at 17? or so "initial" plus your 20 "distributor" is a "total" mechanical + initial of 37 degrees.

That then, is what you will see at midrange and higher RPM, and with your "foot in it" which "kills" all vacuum that is ALSO what you will see under full power even if vacuum is hooked up

 

[moper]

Did you happen to verify the rotor is pointing where it should be when the engine's at TDC?
The slot in the drive should point at the #1 plug, and the rotor should be pointing directly at the #1 terminal on the cap.

 

[70aarcuda]

Did you happen to verify the rotor is pointing where it should be when the engine's at TDC?
The slot in the drive should point at the #1 plug, and the rotor should be pointing directly at the #1 terminal on the cap.

"I'm running the eBay distributor that is also sold under the Pro Comp brand name. Not MSD. "

On those distributors the rotor is about 45 degrees ahead of the slot...probably about two plug wires off......but as long as the rotor lines with number on the cap...it is all good.

 

[magnumdart]

You may be chasing your tail here. If it were I would just start all over. Install the cam straight up, set the jets on the carb, if you are sure the balancer and cover are correct set the timing at about 10 before and set the distributor rotor at number 1. check all the hoses to be certain they are on the correct ports. I can go out to my car right now and twist the distributor all over, set it by eye and it will at least run well enough to put a light on it. When you have a light on it are the marks steady or jumping all over? If your battery is good and the starter is not dragging it should start. One other thing was mentioned that is easy, check the polarity. There was a time when I had way too many cars that I couldn't keep up with. They got to be really hard to start because of bad gas. You have this symptom. I assume you set everything else properly, so if you still have trouble all anyone out here in digital hell can do is keep guessing. Maybe the cam is ground wrong, or they put the wrong one in your box. I say that because it is the only major new thing you mentioned for your build.

 

[moper]

Tony - yeah that was why I worded it that way. I wasn't sure which terminal was #1 on that unit. It doesn't matter which terminal is #1, so long as the rotor is pointing at it when everything else is showing TDC on compression on 1.

 

[PocketAces]

That's a good tip on not disconnecting the PCV. I knew better, just didn't think it through.

When I installed the distributor to begin with I aimed the rotor at #1 while at TDC, just like everyone is suggesting. Since then I've re-oriented the drive gear a couple teeth to get more advance. I'm not really sure where the rotor is pointing now, but that's the first thing I'm going to check before I try again today.

 

[PocketAces]

I borrowed a carburetor from a buddy with a 65 Dart 273. Same symptoms.

Then I swapped out my HEI distributor for the old Mopar orange box setup that came with car. Instant success!

I set the base timing down to 15 degrees advance and it idles nice.

 

[RustyRatRod]

That's a good tip on not disconnecting the PCV. I knew better, just didn't think it through.

When I installed the distributor to begin with I aimed the rotor at #1 while at TDC, just like everyone is suggesting. Since then I've re-oriented the drive gear a couple teeth to get more advance. I'm not really sure where the rotor is pointing now, but that's the first thing I'm going to check before I try again today.

If you stabbed the distributor in with the rotor pointing to number one with the cam and crank gears dot to dot, you have the distributor in 180* off.

 

[fishy68]

I borrowed a carburetor from a buddy with a 65 Dart 273. Same symptoms.

Then I swapped out my HEI distributor for the old Mopar orange box setup that came with car. Instant success!

I set the base timing down to 15 degrees advance and it idles nice.

That's good to hear. I wonder if you have the pickup wires reversed in the other dist like the other guys mentioned?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I borrowed a carburetor from a buddy with a 65 Dart 273. Same symptoms.

Then I swapped out my HEI distributor for the old Mopar orange box setup that came with car. Instant success!

I set the base timing down to 15 degrees advance and it idles nice.

Well that's good. Musta been in the box or maybe like Tracy said the wires were reversed.

 

[67Dart273]

I borrowed a carburetor from a buddy with a 65 Dart 273. Same symptoms.

Then I swapped out my HEI distributor for the old Mopar orange box setup that came with car. Instant success!

I set the base timing down to 15 degrees advance and it idles nice.

I think I said this, "didn't read" LOL. Starting to should like a phasing problem with that distributor. Maybe the pickup polarity is reversed, or whatever.

EXAMPLE. Ever look at a Mopar factory breakerless? The reluctor has two key slots. One is for CCW direction (B / RB) the other is for CW direction, small blocks. If you assemble the thing with the key wrong, the rotor will be way out of phase. Google "rotor phasing"

https://www.google.com/search?num=2...nf=0...0...1.1.64.hp..1.15.1132.0.mEe3vZwRKLo


nudder' thread on this

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=217220