Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
Don't have time ti read but maybe something in this post?
Tubular upper arms-I feel lucky tonight
Tubular upper arms-I feel lucky tonight
New Upper A Arm Troubles
- Thread starter Wvbuzzmaster
- Start date
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Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Can the OP post pics of the other UCA?
Problem or no problem they should be checking that stuff. A dismissive or defensive attitude is not good customer service. Somebody needs to do the rod test on a car and see how those align. I was not under the impression the UCA bolts are on the same plane.
Problem or no problem they should be checking that stuff. A dismissive or defensive attitude is not good customer service. Somebody needs to do the rod test on a car and see how those align. I was not under the impression the UCA bolts are on the same plane.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
The reason the bushings don’t align is the tubes are turned and welded to the ball joint end crooked and that makes the geometry of this arm different than the other. I know it bolts on to the car with two bolts, but their other arm is flat and the bushings align perfectly, so if that’s not right then what is wrong. In the current form, there is no amount of creativity that is in this, just incorrectly welded together. I don’t even have to try fitting it to the car because it’s a waste of time an effort since I know it won’t fit and align the car. The car is drivable with factory arms on it right now, just not much castor, so I am not disrupting that when I know something is not going to work. I have been working on cars and equipment my entire life and consulted several local friends that have rebuilt several Mopars over the years, and we all agreed that this arm is not usable.
The dismissive attitudes I got on the phone from all of them got me upset. They start sentences with “I’m not arguing, but that came off a jig so it’s fine.” I don’t dispute it came off a jig, but somethings wrong with the jig if it did. And they have all these excuses why they couldn’t just replace the defective part in less than 2-3 months… not to mention flat out calling me ignorant.
The dismissive attitudes I got on the phone from all of them got me upset. They start sentences with “I’m not arguing, but that came off a jig so it’s fine.” I don’t dispute it came off a jig, but somethings wrong with the jig if it did. And they have all these excuses why they couldn’t just replace the defective part in less than 2-3 months… not to mention flat out calling me ignorant.
Why don't you out the f'ing company so others here and other places don't have the same f'ing problem???????????????
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
That arm is bent.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
Looks to me that if on one side the bushings align, and on the other side, they don't, one of the two wasn't made to specs. Do factory ones align? Since they don't use one common through bolt, I frankly never checked in the past.
junkyardhero
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that's two different arms. what are the chances that both are bent?
junkyardhero
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i don't think they do, and they wouldn't if the problem solver bushings are used or caster is built into them.
So you didn't bother to read it, and you posted a link to a UCA failure of a UCA made by a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COMPANY.
That thread is not relevant in any way to this one, and will only further muddy the waters. The UCA in this thread is made by Firm Feel, which is a great company that has been supporting the Mopar hobby for decades. The company in the other thread went out of business because of its crappy production and welds.
I agree, that UCA is not to spec. That doesn't necessarily mean their jig is wrong though, it may have warped during welding or even been bent afterward. Jigs are not foolproof, and it depends on how the jig is set up.
Again, as I already said, this is not a company that makes thousands of UCA's. Hell they may not even make hundreds in any given year. They do small batch runs, and it sounds like they're having that done by someone else. Which means, if they don't currently have any on the shelf, they don't have any to send you until the next production run. If they're not doing the production runs themselves, then the availability of the fabricator they use would determine the production schedule. So quite frankly your attitude about the speed of replacement is misguided. Does it suck that they can't send a new one tomorrow? Absolutely. But that's not how things work all the time, and quite frankly some of the low production parts being out of stock for a few months has never been uncommon, this isn't a new thing.
As for the rest of it, I don't know how you approached this. I've been dealing with Firm Feel since 2008 and I have never had a single negative experience. Even just a couple months ago they shipped me a new bracket for their pitman arm bearing reinforcement kit. They had some brackets go out that were incorrect, there was another member here that posted it and they made a new run of brackets and sent them out free of charge. I sent an email and they had a bracket out to me as soon as it was produced, which was a couple months. I didn't even buy the part direct from them (which I told them), I bought it from another FABO member. I recently spent quite awhile talking to Frank about upgrading the torsion bars on my Duster, we went over all kinds of specs and hex offsets and he even helped me figure out that a set of Mopar Performance 1.14" bars I bought actually had the wrong hex offset on them.
It is clearly a Firm Feel UCA, and I seriously doubt this is a widespread issue.
The bushings should be aligned
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
Pretty good, especially if they came off the same car. It could also be wasted bushings causing that issue, but the holes should be aligned. That doesn't mean that an acceptable alignment couldn't be done with those arms, either.
Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
1st off I did not know what company as he wouldn't state it, And yes I did not have the time at the moment to read it and I did say (but maybe something in this post?) I thought maybe something in there related. Sorry if I pissed you off. I never claim to always be right aand I try to help when I can. If you ever ask a question I'll keep my mouth shut.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to beleivea reputable company wouldnt stand by their product or at least hear the story. However parts guys are in a unique situation people buy stuff eff it up and return it then sell it to someone else. been there where Ive opened up a part and thought"someones been messing around with this ..." Its taken me years but Ive found its all in how you talk to them if you come off at them pissed off its game over even over the phone. You have to use tact and act like you truly just want to get to the bottom of it and resolve the issue. Even if they say "you pay shipping" dont ***** about it hang up and ***** to the wife or the dog...if it gets real stupid elevate it up to the manager a typical counter person will tell you dumb chit...at some point you need a good customer service rep.
MidnightSwinger
Well-Known Member
That’s easy hit up @BergmanAutoCraft He is an active member here.
Couldn't agree more with using Peter at Bergman Auto Craft. Knowledgeable, polite, and great parts. What's not to like!!!
I got my SPC double adjustable UCA's from him and solved my "no caster" condition. Went from a car that would scare you at the track to one that goes dead straight. Oh, and during shipping, the box was clearly mishandled and damaged and knocked a grease fitting out. Called Peter, new fitting shipped quickly without issue. Guess where I'll buy any further suspension pieces?
I got my SPC double adjustable UCA's from him and solved my "no caster" condition. Went from a car that would scare you at the track to one that goes dead straight. Oh, and during shipping, the box was clearly mishandled and damaged and knocked a grease fitting out. Called Peter, new fitting shipped quickly without issue. Guess where I'll buy any further suspension pieces?
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BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Post 20 shows that even in factory UCA's, the bushing holes don't always perfectly align. They probably don't have to since the rubber can accommodate slight misalignment of bushing axes. I agree is is best that the holes align, so the brackets on the frame don't see a bending force as the UCA moves up and down. The manufacturer must surely align the bushing sleeves on a welding jig since I can't imagine how else they would set it up for welding. Perhaps the misalignment comes from how the bushing is pressed in and/or its concentricity. OP could hold a straight edge against the sleeves to see if welded concentrically. Regardless, they will likely work fine on the car.
Thanks for post 26 since I had considered those fancy UCA's with easy caster adjustment. Re what happens when a control arm fails, I investigated that 10 yrs ago after posting a temp fix on my 1984 M-B to drive it home which resulted in flames from web forum "experts". Usually, control arms (and ball joints) fail at low speed when turning sharp, such as parking lots, since when they see the highest loads. The wheel usually splays outward, but you can still steer and brake. The front may drop if that control arm supports the spring (LCA in our Mopars). Early 2000's M-B LCA often fail by rusting thru from the insides, with no signs until they snap. Those were formed from rolled flat steel, while my 1984 has solid forged LCA's. Worst failures I've seen on the web are in Tesla Model S/X until ~2017 when they redesigned the aluminum suspension parts. China forced a recall, but Tesla balked for U.S., claiming "specific to Chinese drivers or Chinese roads", though they commonly break elsewhere and often the "whompy wheel" damages body panels or even loss of control (current death lawsuits).
Thanks for post 26 since I had considered those fancy UCA's with easy caster adjustment. Re what happens when a control arm fails, I investigated that 10 yrs ago after posting a temp fix on my 1984 M-B to drive it home which resulted in flames from web forum "experts". Usually, control arms (and ball joints) fail at low speed when turning sharp, such as parking lots, since when they see the highest loads. The wheel usually splays outward, but you can still steer and brake. The front may drop if that control arm supports the spring (LCA in our Mopars). Early 2000's M-B LCA often fail by rusting thru from the insides, with no signs until they snap. Those were formed from rolled flat steel, while my 1984 has solid forged LCA's. Worst failures I've seen on the web are in Tesla Model S/X until ~2017 when they redesigned the aluminum suspension parts. China forced a recall, but Tesla balked for U.S., claiming "specific to Chinese drivers or Chinese roads", though they commonly break elsewhere and often the "whompy wheel" damages body panels or even loss of control (current death lawsuits).
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Petesdstr
Member
I have a pair of QA1 upper control arms, I went to SRC fully adjustable uppers..
I’ll sell ya mine.. perfect shape..
I have a drawing with all measurements..
I’ll sell ya mine.. perfect shape..
I have a drawing with all measurements..
MILO
Well-Known Member
I would just bolt them up you would never have known or have a problem if you did not put that rod through and as others said they bolt on separate not with a rod
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
Just my two cents. Has the car been in an accident, if so the frame or ears may be bent. I'm referring to the used arm in the photo. I agree, the ends should line up, or the bushings will fail shorty. Like any business, you are only as good as your help. In this case, your supplier. Time to wake up or you will no longer have a business. Keep your customers happy. My take here for a positive solution is, the company that sold the defected part should contact the supplier and see if they can find another upper control arm from another company that they sold to and send the customer another one, DONE DEAL.
1st off I did not know what company as he wouldn't state it, And yes I did not have the time at the moment to read it and I did say (but maybe something in this post?) I thought maybe something in there related. Sorry if I pissed you off. I never claim to always be right aand I try to help when I can. If you ever ask a question I'll keep my mouth shut.
Sorry, but if you’re too lazy to even read the first couple of posts in a thread you have no business reposting it and suggesting it’s helpful.
The thread you linked isn’t relevant in any way, which even spending 60 seconds to read the opening couple of posts would show. The company that made those UCA’s is long out of business, and the failure they had has nothing to do with the UCA’s in this thread.
Reposting random threads you haven’t even read isn’t helpful, and in this case just serves to sidetrack the discussion from its actual purpose. If you don’t know, don’t post.
Post #26 contains UCA’s made by a company that’s been out of business for over a decade. Nobody sells those particular UCA’s anymore, so unless you found a a second hand set and a really shady seller you’d have no chance of buying those.
Which is in the thread that was posted, if you read it.
Again, this isn’t that simple. Firm Feel may not be the fabricator of the UCA’s it sells, but it is the only supplier. There is no other company that sells those particular UCA’s, and they are made in small batches. So if there aren’t any on the shelf at Firm Feel, there aren’t any to send the OP until the next production run.
MILO
Well-Known Member
Any frame shop or fabrication shop could give that a little twist and line right up
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