No Lift 360 Swap Tips/Suggestions

[ddart cart]

I should be outside doing this aleady.
74 Dart. 318 needs out. 360 needs in. 904 stays in. Temu hoist is scary. I can nose the Dart into the garage, getting the front wheels on cement. Beyond the garage door is dirt, so rear wheels on soil. The higher the hoist goes, the more it wants to twist, but I did stiffen it up since last use.

Will the trans be okay left mounted in the car?
Should I use ramps?
Just use a floor jack under the K?
Can I survive without a leveler?
Should I torque the hedman shorty’s first?
Will my 904 actually bolt up just by enlarging one hole on the flex plate?
What did I miss?

I never did this so I’m looking for clarification of procedure.

Thank you in advance,
-Doug

 

[Professor Fate]

Will my 904 actually bolt up just by enlarging one hole on the flex plate?

Huh?
Is this an LA 360 or a 5.9 Magnum?
There is no "enlarging a bolt hole" with an LA, that's a Magnum thing.
An LA 360 requires the use of a B&M flexplate #10239 in order to mate an externally balanced LA360 to a neutral balanced 904 convertor. No modifications needed or holes needing to be egged out.
If it's a Magnum 5.9, yes- oval out 1 convertor hole on the flexplate. You'll see where and how much by holding the flexplate up to the convertor.
P.S.-
Take that "TEMU" hoist to the scrapyard and use the money you got to rent a real engine hoist from an equipment rental center on your way home. This could be your life you're messing with, do you really trust it? Obviously not.

 

[sam69sat]

I have a piece of **** hoist that twisted like that and would tip to one side when you started lifting. They didn't square up the boom when they built it so it was cockeyed to one side. It tumbled over with an engine and tranny attached right into the dirt. Rent or borrow one from a friend.

 

[missing linc]

If your engine hoist is that sketchy, then I have to agree with the Professor, toss it before it kills or maims you.
As for your other questions, the transmission will be fine if you put a floor jack under it for support, but use a scrap piece of 2x4 or 2x6 between the jack and the transmission pan to prevent damage.
You can jack the car up using the k member, then place good quality jackstands under the frame rails to support the car. Make sure you leave enough clearance to lift the engine out of the car without contacting the ceiling of your garage, I prefer to keep the chain as short as possible.
Personally I don't use ramps because they take too much space, you will have to get underneath the car at some point in the process of the swap.
Engine levelers are valuable, but not essential to have, I have used them on occasion, but I don't own one and have successfully done dozens of engine removal and installation jobs.
Ask any questions you may have before you attempt this as you haven't done or seen this done before.
The headers shouldn't be too hard to install after the engine is in, and you will find the extra room to work without them attached to your benefit.

 

[67Dart273]

What is a Temu hoist? Cherry picker/ engine hoist? Or what. And yes, exactly what engine, 5.9 magnum or 360LA

Just my personal feelings, but I would not try and leave the auto in the car in such a situation.

In years past MANY of us have swapped or removed/ installed engines with such was chain hoists from a solid mount above the car and even a DIY tripod!!! you have to use reason and make it safe!!! And do NOT get under anything that can fall.

 

[missing linc]

What is a Temu hoist? Cherry picker/ engine hoist? Or what. And yes, exactly what engine, 5.9 magnum or 360LA

I believe a Temu hoist is a cheap Chinese made piece of ****.

 

[abodyjoe]

Will my 904 actually bolt up just by enlarging one hole on the flex plate?

not sure what the hell you are talking about here. unless you pulled theconvertor and welded weights on it for the 360 balance chances are you'll need a different flexplate.

 

[volaredon]

Up til 96 Dodge offset 1 hole on the flex plate to torque converter bolt hole so it would only bolt on one way so that the engines that had weights on the converter would always end up in the right spot relating to the crank. Flex plate also only bolts on in one position.

 

[ddart cart]

I’ll mess the multi quote thing right up so:
First, thank you guys.
The 360 is a magnum.
The Temu hoist is a cheap, twisty, bendy cherry picker that already smashed me good, and dumped magnum #1. I’m attributing most of that to the front hoist wheels sinking into dirt as directed by the guy delivering it!
My mother lost a friend in high school to a car falling on him, so I am pretty conscious about that.
The ramps I would slide in after jacking, whichever way took up less space, but I have solid stands too, just thought ramps were more stable.
The magnum flex plate works according to magmumswap.com when you egg one hole, but for all I know I need a different trans despite being told it bolts right up.

Can I support the trans with a jack stand and wood?
Can I get the engine over the nose, then jack the front?
Can I leave the hood on?
I figure to get the 318 out, I’ll jack up, unbolt, lower down, remove? For the 360 magnum in, I figure car down, engine in, jack up, then bolt up?

 

[crackedback]

Take the flexplate off. Line it up on the converter so the offset bolt line up properly, mark both converter and flexplate. Line up marks once engine is installed.

318 and 360 have the same bellhousing pattern. If the converter is a 318 piece, it needs a weight or you need a 360 balance flexplate.

Do it once, do it right!

 

[volaredon]

The hole on the flex plate only needs egged out if you're using a 96+ flex plate and 95/ down converter.

 

[ddart cart]

Take the flexplate off. Line it up on the converter so the offset bolt line up properly, mark both converter and flexplate. Line up marks once engine is installed.

318 and 360 have the same bellhousing pattern. If the converter is a 318 piece, it needs a weight or you need a 360 balance flexplate.

Do it once, do it right!

I have the flexplate that came with the 5.9 magnum, plus an extra. Sounds like I need to unbolt and move the trans back to access the converter and flexplate after the 360 magnum is in.

 

[ddart cart]

The hole on the flex plate only needs egged out if you're using a 96+ flex plate and 95/ down converter.

I have a 98 magnum 5.9 and 01 magnum 5.9 flexplate, the trans from the 1974 Dart is from 1974, a 904 automatic transmission with 1974 converter.

 

[missing linc]

You could probably leave the hood on, I have done that before, however this being the first time for you, it might be better to just take it off. Before you loosen any bolts, mark the location of the hinges by using a felt pen or a scratch awl so that when you reinstall it, it's simply matter of lining up the marks. I don't recommend propping up the transmission with a jackstand, but if you have no other option it may be ok. Just remember that once the engine has been separated from the transmission bellhousing, the only thing holding it is the transmission mount, which is pretty much at the back of the transmission. As for the flexplate question, I am not well versed in the Magnum engines, but I do know that the torque convertor difference between LA series 318 and 360 is a balance weight, one requires it, one doesn't. Memory is failing me on which one is which.
That said, if the Magnum flexplate is balanced to the engine, then it stands to reason the 318 convertor is ok.
You will see once you begin that accessing the torque convertor bolts is via removing the sheet metal plate between the engine and transmission. You will also have to remove the starter before pulling the engine.
I strongly recommend that you take some time and at least watch some YouTube videos on the engine swap procedure before you dive in and find yourself in a bad situation, unsure about how to proceed.

Just my .02.

 

[67Dart273]

Check your 74 converter that it has no big weights, in other words, that it is actually from a 318 and NOT externally balanced. If my memory is correct, the flex only bolts to the crank in one position, and this should be the weight you need for the magnum. The elongated hole I don't believe matters, but that is an easy matter of trial bolting it to the converter and marking the hole to be "done."

 

[67Dart273]

Hoist. Look around. I have bought two horrid freight hoists off C/L for less than a hundred. One is heavier than the other. If you are working on dirt, you'll need something to run the wheels on. OSB, plywood, whatever. I got lucky. I scored two scrap pieces of 6"? channel that is perforated like strut and very light. I used them like RR tracks to run the hoist in

I take it you can not fabricate or weld? Can't "beef" the flimsy one?

 

[ddart cart]

I was thinking leave the trans to make it easier to lower the engine with the crap hoist, and me alone, but if doing it as a unit is the move, I will definitely need a stronger hoist, and leveler, and a week to generate money for that.
I looked at videos for days, and they all skip right over the procedure in question. Today was the day, was.
I would feel way more comfortable underneath with solid ramps over stands, but seems like getting the oil pan over the nose will be difficult being 12” taller, so that’s why I thought up & down moves are needed.
I haven’t learned to weld, yet. I haven’t seen the converter yet, but it should be stock to the 74 318, and it’s probably good to go, until I can buy a new high stall. The hoist will likely stay on cement, barely, but I have some heavy plywood for more reach if needed.

 

[volaredon]

So a 98 or an 01 360 magnum flex plate will have the one offset hole and no weights.
95 and newer 360 magnum will have the weight on the flex plate and will have evenly spaced holes to bolt the converter to the flex plate

 

[65TerrorCuda]

Strip the motor of everything possible. Intake, heads, alternator, exhaust. Short block weighs a lot less. Wheel the car away from the engine to put less strain on the hoist. Ratchet strap under trans, hooks into frame rails at bottom of firewall.

At least once I had to pull an oil pan to clear the radiator support, what vehicle I don't recall.

Bendy hoist, not sure I'd even do this job.

 

[ddart cart]

Here’s a visual of the work space:

 

[ddart cart]

Strip the motor of everything possible. Intake, heads, alternator, exhaust. Short block weighs a lot less. Wheel the car away from the engine to put less strain on the hoist. Ratchet strap under trans, hooks into frame rails at bottom of firewall.

At least once I had to pull an oil pan to clear the radiator support, what vehicle I don't recall.

Bendy hoist, not sure I'd even do this job.

Sounds good except having to re buy all those gaskets, which I usually would not care about, but flow is currently low.
The crap hoist is a real time eater, and safety hazard for sure.

 

[65TerrorCuda]

Let's see this hoist. Did they use 22 ga steel or what

 

[ddart cart]

Let's see this hoist. Did they use 22 ga steel or what

You may be able to see it’s cocked toward the driver side, that’s the way it likes twisting. With weight, the driver side rear wheels is off the floor mostly.

 

[JDMopar]

If you leave the 904 in the car, jack the car up and make it safe to get under. Disconnect the battery first, then get under the car and take the starter out. Take the dust cover off the lower front of the 904 and keep it together with the bolts that hold it....actually, do that with everything instead of just tossing the bolts in a bucket. Take the closest flex plate to converter bolt out and rotate the motor with a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt, then take the other 3 converter to flex plate bolts out as you come to them. When you get all 4 of those little bolts out, save them with the dust cover and its bolts. Push the torque converter towards the back of the car as far as it will go...maybe half to 3/4 of an inch. Then take everything else loose under the car in the same fashion. The two bottom bellhousing bolts go thru the bottom of the bellhousing flange on the motor, into the transmission bellhousing. You will need to remove the oil filter to get the passenger side bottom bolt out. The rest of the bellhousing bolts go thru the bellhousing into the flange on the motor. Get everything done underneath before you move up top. You can even loosen the thru bolt on the motor mounts to where they will lift out of the saddles on the K frame when you start the lift out. Before you start the job, find some rubber plugs to plug off the gas line coming from the tank (you can stick a bolt in that), the transmission lines at the radiator(you will need 4 plugs there) and something to catch your antifreeze when you drain the radiator before you take it out. If your lower radiator hose has a coiled up spring in it....save it and put it back in the new hose when you go back together with it. That helps keep the water pump from sucking the hose flat when it is pulling water from the radiator. You might as well pull the hood off since this is your first time. Get help with that so you don't bust the windshield! Catch the hook on the hoist as close to the intake as you can (carb off) and the motor will easily clear without removing the oil pan. Use a chain corner to corner, bolted to the bolt holes in the head, bolts in deep but not bottomed completely out....and catch it close as I mentioned above. Put the hoist hook right over the center of the intake and you won't need a leveler. Support the trans and don't let the converter fall out. You can bolt a little box end wrench to the bottom of the bellhousing to hold the converter. You'll figure out how. Just take your time, be safe...and you will figure most of it out as you go.

 

[ddart cart]

Very Helpful JD, thank you sir.