Power limits for LA small blocks?

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doogievlg said:
I have the edelbrock heads already. While I am at a point in my life where I can build this thing right I am still trying to stick with the stock block. I got a feeling a 500 hp small block will be enough to keep my smiling for a few years until I decide what else to do.
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What are your goals or requirements? I see this thread is not in the race section, so.........
I don't know how much power my engine is putting out, but it goes 93 in the eighth at 3450#. I can tell you that this 367 is,for me,all I ever needed. I'm on my third cam now since 1999 and the engine has at least 110,000 miles on her. I swapped out the 292/108, for a 270/110, and now a 276/110. That was the winner for me.It is geared to use 2 gears and be all used up at 65mph, cuz well, that's the speed limit here. The same gears get me to 93 in a hurry. But the qtr needs a different gear to trap well, still it does pretty good with 3.55s.
Now, I'm sure I have less than 500hp, and I think a little more than 400. Several years after I built mine, HRM came out with similar engine that they said made 430ish IIRC. And the Hughes Engines came out with a recipe that they said made 437hp.The Wallace calculator converts my 93mph to 445 hp. So I'm hoping that when I say a little over 400, I'm not exaggerating.
This is an easy, fairly cheap build and stone-hammer reliable. I do however highly recommend an overdrive trans.
If you decide to stroke it, it will of course have much more bottom-end power than my little 367 and so a big cam could be eschewed.Unless of course you will be racing it regularly, or you just like the sound of the rumpiddy-rump. My 276/110cam has very little of that. Along with all that torque, I can't make 295s or even 325s stick with a manual trans and street suspension, suffering 2.2 or higher,60fts.
They say 500 is pretty easy with a stroker. I was part of a build on a 340 that made 497 a few years ago.But she was a little torque challenged outta the gate. It was a show car tho so no big deal.
Just rambling
 
AJ/FormS said:
What are your goals or requirements? I see this thread is not in the race section, so.........
I don't know how much power my engine is putting out, but it goes 93 in the eighth at 3450#. I can tell you that this 367 is for me,all I ever needed. I'm on my third cam now since 1999 and the engine has at least 110,000 miles on her. I swapped out the 292/108, for a 270/110, and now a 276/110. That was the winner for me.It is geared to be use 2 gears and be all used up at 65mph, cuz well, that's the speed limit here. The same gears get me to 93 in a hurry. But the qtr needs a different gear to trap well, still it does pretty good with 3.55s.
Now, I'm sure I have less than 500, and a little more than 400. Several years after I built mine, HRM came out with similar engine that they said made 430ish IIRC. And the Hughes Engines came out with a recipe that they said made 437hp.The Wallace calculator converts my 93mph to 445 hp. So I'm hoping that when I say a little over 400, I'm not exaggerating.
This is an easy, fairly cheap build and stone-hammer reliable. I do however highly recommend an overdrive trans.
If you decide to stroke it, it will of course have much more bottom-end power than my little 367 and so a big cam could be eschewed.Unless of course you will be racing it regularly, or you just like the sound of the rumpiddy-rump. My 276/110cam has very little of that. Along with all that torque, I can't make 295s or even 325s stick with a stick and street suspension, suffering 2.2 or higher,60fts.
They say 500 is pretty easy with a stroker. I was part of a build on a 340 that made 497 a few years ago.But she was a little torque challenged outta the gate. Show car tho so no big deal.
Just rambling
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The car will get raced a few times a year and be driven around town for some fun most of the other time. The car was very high 12 second car when it thrashed the baring so I am hoping to get into the 11s. I know that can be done with a stock stroke 360 but like I said before, this is a time in my life where I can build the stroker so why not do it. My plan was to originally build a 500 hp small block with a procharger or nitrous but I am realizing it would be a more conservative idea to stick with all motor.
 
yah you wont find any LA engines in a 900 hp sprint cars 500 hp way plenty unless your going drag or circle .buy a bigblock , short block , dart heads and fuel it to 750 now make it hook up . assuming your going more street than strip throw a bottle at it ,use when needed serious engines are serious $ then you have to get it to hook or my 375 hp 65 Barracuda going seeee yahhh. take 50 k get 35 back if you don't go poof . big motor s need big tranny:s, big rearends , stought chassi , suspension forget the paint but is your $ and life don't let me influence you , you might have millions for all I know. I just know **** breaks , I built my car to make me happy , pay the lawer before the wedding . KEEP YOUR DREAMS ALIVE HAGR812 winstoninwisc
 
winstoninwisc said:
yah you wont find any LA engines in a 900 hp sprint cars 500 hp way plenty unless your going drag or circle .buy a bigblock , short block , dart heads and fuel it to 750 now make it hook up . assuming your going more street than strip throw a bottle at it ,use when needed serious engines are serious $ then you have to get it to hook or my 375 hp 65 Barracuda going seeee yahhh. take 50 k get 35 back if you don't go poof . big motor s need big tranny:s, big rearends , stought chassi , suspension forget the paint but is your $ and life don't let me influence you , you might have millions for all I know. I just know **** breaks , I built my car to make me happy , pay the lawer before the wedding . KEEP YOUR DREAMS ALIVE HAGR812 winstoninwisc
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They made an aluminum block just for sprint cars. Like everything else, you couldn't get one unless you were someone or knew someone.
 
image.jpeg
Time slip from Sunday of the dart in my avatar 430 ci 340 all motor with a carb. It is a race car and weighs in at 2790 with me in it. And it is a foot brake car that I shift.
 
12:37 or 9:90?


Hey! It's an honest question!
 
doogievlg said:
I have the edelbrock heads already. While I am at a point in my life where I can build this thing right I am still trying to stick with the stock block. I got a feeling a 500 hp small block will be enough to keep my smiling for a few years until I decide what else to do.
Click to expand...
I got bored with 540 HP in 1 summer. That's just me though. Drive it hard, and do it enough, and it loses its zing a little.

I probably ain't the "norm" personality, though....
 
Ironmike said:
I got bored with 540 HP in 1 summer. That's just me though. Drive it hard, and do it enough, and it loses its zing a little.

I probably ain't the "norm" personality, though....
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Same way here. That's what keeps me tinkering! I had to walk away from it all for a bit which turned into a long spell. Spun a bearing right after I got purchased my second house and had a kid. Wife enrolled in collage to be a RN.
All the "Fun Money" was being used elsewhere. Well worth it in the long run.
But I have been bored. Hopefully not much longer.

This round, the car will be used a bit more sparingly.
 
doogievlg said:
The car will get raced a few times a year and be driven around town for some fun most of the other time. The car was very high 12 second car when it thrashed the baring so I am hoping to get into the 11s. I know that can be done with a stock stroke 360 but like I said before, this is a time in my life where I can build the stroker so why not do it. My plan was to originally build a 500 hp small block with a procharger or nitrous but I am realizing it would be a more conservative idea to stick with all motor.
Click to expand...
You do not need 500 hp in a A-body to run 11's.
 
Thanks 318. Missed it obviously.
It could have been the slower time with Hwy. gears.
 
Keep in mind..... Horsepower from 1972 and up is measured in "Net" hp instead of Gross. A huge difference. Lets look at some stock mopars, and what would their "gross" hp be instead of "net".
  • 360 magnum would be about 300 gross (up from 245 net). We see these between 200-300k miles in 5000-6000 lbs vehicles, many being worked.
  • I bet the Scat Pak hemi of 475 would be close to 560 gross stock from the factory, and packing a warranty.
Means you asked LA, and you set a goal of 11's, I would think any LA factory cast crank and rods would be good to 450 hp (so long as you didn't consistently exceed 6200 rpm's with the 3.58 crank or 6500 rpm's with the 3.31 crank) and be reliable. More than enough to get ya into the 11's. At this point, the block is stronger than the crank/rods.

Add forged crank and stronger rods, you can move up with the hp and a few rpm's.
 
318willrun said:
You do not need 500 hp in a A-body to run 11's.
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I want to keep the interior untouched and
318willrun said:
You do not need 500 hp in a A-body to run 11's.
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I want to keep the car in full street trim. I dont want to do anything to the interior and possibly only a glass hood. I also would like to be able to run it with a streetable gear. I am sure some guy is out there running 11s with a full interior and 3:xx gears but that is not easy.
 
doogievlg said:
I want to keep the interior untouched and


I want to keep the car in full street trim. I dont want to do anything to the interior and possibly only a glass hood. I also would like to be able to run it with a streetable gear. I am sure some guy is out there running 11s with a full interior and 3:xx gears but that is not easy.
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I was talking about full interior and street gears (3.23 - 3.55). Quit listening to your buddies that say they have a 400 hp 350 in their Camaro and run 15's LOL.....
 
yellow rose said:
Yes. If you are patient, you can find an X or R block for a reasonable price. I bought my last X block brand new, in the box, unbored for $800.00 cash.

A correctly prepped X or R block will take anything an LS will. Don't let the junk yard scrounges bullshit you. If you are making power with an LS, you are using an aftermarket block. Just like the SBC. My rules with SBC's was 500 HP for a circle burner or 575 HP for a drag car and you bought a block. If you didn't, it was built by someone else.

No one making big power RELIABLY is doing it with a stock block. If it was true, nobody would make locks in the aftermarket.


FWIW! You can make 550 HP falling off a log with a decent 408 and eddy heads. And that's using HRT's and turning 5500 RPM. If you don't RPM it's guts out (keep it under 7000) it will be as reliable as anything else.
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After witnessing Ironmike's struggles, I don't think there are a great deal of people falling off that 550 HP by 5,500 rpm, 408, Edelbrock headed log.
 
IQ52 said:
After witnessing Ironmike's struggles, I don't think there are a great deal of people falling off that 550 HP by 5,500 rpm, 408, Edelbrock headed log.
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I did it the first time in 2000 on a third party dyno. It's even easier today. I told IM I'd donate all my W-2 stuff to him, but I didn't want to cut the decks that far to get the CR he needed plus all the porting on the heads and intake and I get to pick the cam.

So yes, as easy as falling off a log if done correctly.
 
yellow rose said:
I did it the first time in 2000 on a third party dyno. It's even easier today. I told IM I'd donate all my W-2 stuff to him, but I didn't want to cut the decks that far to get the CR he needed plus all the porting on the heads and intake and I get to pick the cam.

So yes, as easy as falling off a log if done correctly.
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Oh, done correctly! I though all you needed was a 408 and Edelbrock heads! How many people can do those heads correctly? An Edelbrock head that makes 550 HP @ 5,500 rpm should be making 600 HP another 700 rpm later.

Yes, easy for you.

And I have dyno sheet after dyno sheet showing 570-578 HP @ 5,500 rpm (and 610-620 HP @ 6,200 rpm) with iron LAX heads on 91 octane. I had to fall off'n that log and climb back on a bunch of times to get there.
 
I hand some hands on a 408 back around '04. It made 580 n/a, and ran a 150hp plate on top. I know it went mid 10s without the plate. Heads were max ported Shady Dell RPMS. It can be done and doesn't take any pro magic. But it's expensive and the clock starts ticking the first dyno pull. He then built a big block car to go faster because the value (return on investment) was not there.
 
doogievlg said:
The car will get raced a few times a year and be driven around town for some fun most of the other time. The car was very high 12 second car when it thrashed the baring so I am hoping to get into the 11s. I know that can be done with a stock stroke 360 but like I said before, this is a time in my life where I can build the stroker so why not do it. My plan was to originally build a 500 hp small block with a procharger or nitrous but I am realizing it would be a more conservative idea to stick with all motor.
Click to expand...
Doogie
Are you the guy?
The guy to put a pair of turbos on; a big and a little?
All you need is a basic 5.9 Magnum;and a remote mount to power thru top gear, and a little turbo up front to get the big one spooled up. You can run an A518 auto with a 4.30 gear, a small-stall, hit 122@ 6600@11.00,making 500 on the nose, in a 3450 raceweight chassis, and cruise 65=2400 (no slip). That Magnum can be docile as heck, maybe running 300 to 350 NA. With the 2.97 equivalent road gear, and a 268roller cam, you'd be pumping out mpgs in the 20s.
And if that ain't quick enough, reach down and give her another pound or two more,lol.
Of course,going hammer down at 35mpg/2850 rpm (in second) will be a bit dicey, but you'll get the hang of it. And 65 will be 5300 at the top of second, right about where the 268 will power-peak. You might want to practice that a few times,lol, before you open up the secondaries.
Are you the guy ?
the guy to live my dream?
Jus dreaming
 
AJ/FormS said:
Doogie
Are you the guy?
The guy to put a pair of turbos on; a big and a little?
All you need is a basic 5.9 Magnum;and a remote mount to power thru top gear, and a little turbo up front to get the big one spooled up. You can run an A518 auto with a 4.30 gear, a small-stall, hit 122@ 6600@11.00,making 500 on the nose, in a 3450 raceweight chassis, and cruise 65=2400 (no slip). That Magnum can be docile as heck, maybe running 300 to 350 NA. With the 2.97 equivalent road gear, and a 268roller cam, you'd be pumping out mpgs in the 20s.
And if that ain't quick enough, reach down and give her another pound or two more,lol.
Of course,going hammer down at 35mpg/2850 rpm (in second) will be a bit dicey, but you'll get the hang of it. And 65 will be 5300 at the top of second, right about where the 268 will power-peak. You might want to practice that a few times,lol, before you open up the secondaries.
Are you the guy ?
the guy to live my dream?
Jus dreaming
Click to expand...

Na that ain't me! Haha great sales pitch though
 
Yep probably not a question that can be easily answered. Wish I had more miles on mine so I could give better feedback on longevity. Motor is probably right around 580-600 hp naturally aspirated and pulls my 3300 lb (race weight) Dart mid 10's in the 1/4. Don't have many miles on the motor yet but they have been tough miles since I'm always giving it hell! Combination of sreet driving and track days. Block has been fine this far and like I said, I haven't been easy on it. It's 7000+ rpm on the regular lol. I also wanted to keep all the interior so I have front buckets, rear bench, 6 pt roll bar with removeable swing outs and rear center bar. This allows easy access for rear seat passengers. Next is an overdrive so the highway miles will be comfortable even with 4.10's. So it's going to be a good street cruiser and decent drag car by the time that's done. But if my block ever fails, I'll post it up.
 
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