an ellipsis only has three dots... unless... you're omitting an entire sentence.
....
*gets shoved in locker*
rear sway bar recommendations
- Thread starter 72dustervs
- Start date
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an ellipsis only has three dots... unless... you're omitting an entire sentence.
....
*gets shoved in locker*
I discovered that growing up driving rwd cars in Minnesota winters. I was drifting cars before the term ever existed. Lol
Yeah. About that locker thing. lol
matthon
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By flat what do you mean?One of my favorite photos illustrating oversteer.
Both cars were limited to factory suspension (class rules), but the rear tires of 23 are nearly flat resulting in the oversteer seen. In autocross, understeer is often driver induced (turning too late, entering too hard, etc.)
Rear tires look like the sidewall is folded over, at least it appears the sidewall is shorter than the front tires.
I added a rear sway bar, already had front swaybar, Bilstien, bigger torsion bars, and the passenger rear tire would ever so slightly rub the spring when cornering hard left.
Thinking the rear bar was keeping the car more level, therefore rear tires took it.
And with 275/60/15s, a 6.5" sidewall, it's gonna give I'm sure.
I've found Mopars have the right rear wheel ever so slightly closer to the spring.
Fwiw, I switched to bbp axles, which move the axle flange out enough where the tire doesn't rub at all now.
340six
King Of Bling
What's next? Toilet swirling.
Thanks! Yes, it's a blast to drive. My dad built it for vintage racing, but never ended up doing it. He had built the Healey to be my car right after I was born, was gonna put a more stock engine and running gear in it before he gave it to me but I ended up with it in full vintage race trim. Put it back on the road as soon as I got my license, drove it all through high school and most of college. Put tens of thousands of miles on it as a daily. Made plenty of 8+ hour trips to SoCal and back in it. I mostly just did autoX's at Healey meets. I drove it all the way to Silver Star British Columbia for a meet once, about 1,100 miles one way. AutoX'd it there, then drove it back.
I ran 1.12" torsion bars in my Challenger for 70k+ street miles with 275/40/17's on all 4 corners. NO subframe connectors, NO torque boxes, NO cage. No chassis reinforcements of any kind. In fact, that car had significant structural issues -it had holes in the floor boards, rust in the frame rails, rust in the hard top structure, well, you name it, that car has rust in it. A Utah car that went to Florida before I got it, so rust from the bottom up and the top down. A flexy flyer for sure, but, it never let me down and it certainly never folded up despite the rust damage. It wasn't ideal by any means and I don't recommend it, but, it never failed.
So no, large torsion bars and large sticky tires are not going to destroy the unibody. Is it better to do some chassis reinforcements? Absolutely. But suggesting these cars can't handle wheel rates higher than factory BB bars is just asinine. Clearly shows your lack of experience with that kind of set up.
How about you just admit you've never run an A-body with 1"+ torsion bars and front and rear aftermarket sway bars and leave it at that? You've got no clue how a Mopar equipped like that will perform or hold up, because you haven't done it.
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like you, i've logged thousands upon thousands of street miles with heavy bars and nary a complaint (save for the ride quality).
i daily drove my 64 dart with .990's, 1.250 quickor bar up front and a 3/4" firm feel bar out back and only home made torque boxes up front. that car saw regular abuse in the canyons, autoX and buttonwillow's big track. the weapon of choice tire wise was the newly released falken azenis in 205/50-15 a short unit featuring a robust carcass with an ultra stiff sidewall. i'd have to chase interior and tail light screws back in once a week, but the doors on that thing still closed like it was brand new.
the 69 barracuda has rocked 920 bars and a big front bar since 1998 or there abouts and despite making the trip across the united states three times as well as to the end of the road in alaska and back down to tres arcos in baja-- it has yet to taco itself.
there will always be some bumptious gray beard blathering on about the dire consequenses of doing things "the wrong way" because they heard or did something 40 years ago that was total nonsense and they've just regurgitated it so many times it's become gospel to them. these are the people that equate to having been in the hobby a long time as considerable experience and typically are the type to conduct them selves with blinders on; not only refusing to learn but also refusing to acknowledge that things like tire technology has changed massively in the last 20 years, or possibly see another point of view. it's sad really, to be trapped in a pardigm of your own making and be that uncurious about, well, everything.
I have had many and repaired many and yes I have had both bars on several. What you are failing to consider is your pansy *** horse power engines probably don't have enough torque off of a turn to twist tin foil. A rusted mess like your wouldn't last a day with one of my engines.
And I guess US car makes all the bracing and sells many because they look nice.
And you of all people , Mr. suspension? sticks all his money into rusted junk . With all that rust you think your money would be better spent on structure.
We don't limit our builds to sway bars. We put complete chassis together. This was a rust free 4 speed car that my small block would have dish ragged.
My son Just built a 6.4 Hemi 66 coronet 1150 to the tire . If you all wouldn't be so vindictive on this site he would probably post on here , He is a member. He thinks many of you treat others like *** holes. No real discussions just just condescending comments to lift yourself on pedestals looking down on what you don't have or know.
I myself love it, and like the way you contradict yourselves many times. Do I know it all ? No I don't. But a hell of a lot more then you critics. Members on this site buy a lot of parts from me and come to our shops. Many of them think you are fools. Including some of the staff.
He could post a picture book on here and you would all be amazed what we do in our combined shops. Only to be criticized by the left coast. Steve said its not worth his time of day.
oh wow! would you look at that! the same four pictures you posted last time! i'm super impressed.
now do the one with the K members all painted up!
*makes jerking off motion*
now do the one with the K members all painted up!
*makes jerking off motion*
So, what torsion bars did you run? What tires? You're deflecting.
I was daily driving the car at the time, living in my first house that didn't have a shop, and was only a few years into my job at the time. I had to replace all the suspension because it was worn out, and only had time/money/facilities to do the bare minimum on the rust.
It's called life. If I’d had unlimited funds I wouldn’t have done it that way, and I said that. And yeah, I still put 70k miles on that car before I bought my Duster. How many decades has it been since you logged 70k miles in a Mopar? Have you done it since the 80's? I bet not.
Oh, and right, you didn't answer the question.
So let's see. We've got US Cartool subframe connectors, a back half with sliders, and a cage. That's it. I'm supposed to be impressed? Hell I've installed USCT subframe connects, and I run sliders too. Haven't done a back half, but I have replaced frame rails. Oh, and I did all the welding for the cage/chassis on an FSAE car back in college. So, what's your point? Nothing in those pictures I can’t do myself, and I do this for fun.
You STILL haven't answered the question about torsion bars, and you've posted what is clearly a drag car.
You've never built or driven anything Mopar to handle. Not for autoX, not for road racing, not even something that would handle well on the street.
Oh, and I've been to your kids shops website. Seriously, from how you talk it up I thought you guys had some big regional shop. The machinist I use for my engines has nearly 10x as many customers, and he's just a local shop.
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lol grammar Nazi.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
'Loose is fast' is an old racing adage, but has always depended on who was driving.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
I traded for a 68 Delta 88 around 1990 & drove it when I met my wife.
Going down the interstate it felt like the front end was moving up & down & in a circle from one side to the other, while driving in a straight line. Went straight OK, just felt funny. Thought front end was worn out, had never felt that before in any car.
Sway bar link on one side was broken, and after fixing it, car drove fine.
Thought 65 Barracuda w/no front bar was going to be like that, but it drove fine without it. 1.03 bars. Never tried pushing in the curves, was just a test drive.
Going down the interstate it felt like the front end was moving up & down & in a circle from one side to the other, while driving in a straight line. Went straight OK, just felt funny. Thought front end was worn out, had never felt that before in any car.
Sway bar link on one side was broken, and after fixing it, car drove fine.
Thought 65 Barracuda w/no front bar was going to be like that, but it drove fine without it. 1.03 bars. Never tried pushing in the curves, was just a test drive.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
Lower control arms are an extension of the sway bar, in this instance, and the bar only twists torsionally & not much if at all past the bend. Some others are long enuff that the short arm bends, too. Flat Blade adjusters are the obvious case of where that is happening.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
We ran big torsion bars (1.14") with a 1.25" front sway bar and a .75" rear bar on my son's old Barracuda (383/4sp). Handled great both autocrossing and on the highway. I have a factory big block front sway bar along with factory big block torsion bars on the front of my '67 Barracuda convertible (440/727). We have the same setup on my other son's '67 Dart GT convertible (440/4sp). While I haven't driven the Barracuda yet, the Dart is a great highway cruiser and handles well. For a rear bar, since I am cheap, I kept the bar from a '99 Durango I parted out several years ago. It looks like it will fit the A-body rear well. I will figure out later whether I run it or not.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
Old Man Mopar, it seems 72bluNblu IIRC (can't find the post now)doesn't understand exactly what 'Stagger' is, as he seems to use it in relation to F-R Tire Size difference.
He loves an argument tho, and since Kemper is banned he's looking for someone else to argue with!
JYH is the same way.
He loves an argument tho, and since Kemper is banned he's looking for someone else to argue with!
JYH is the same way.
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Woody500
Well-Known Member
He said that was WITHOUT proper bracing! Go reread it!
Bet green brick has some bracing or it was too long ago and we know better now.
lol!
And what exactly are you doing with this post?
Looking for an argument. Nothing more.
As for stagger, it’s used to describe a lot of things. But for street cars, it’s definition is almost always tire related
“What Are Staggered Wheels?
So, what’s the deal with staggered wheels? Simply put, staggered fitment means your car has different-sized wheels and tires on the front and back. Usually, the rear wheels are broader or more significant than the front ones. Imagine your vehicle having beefier tires in the back and slimmer ones up front. This setup is standard in sporty cars like Porsches, Corvettes, and Mustangs.”Pros and cons of staggered wheels - What You Need to Know?
Woody500
Well-Known Member
Any mount thru the frame rails needs a piece of tubing( ID bolt sized)clear thru the frame rail & welded to frame rail. Heavier plate only might cause lighter rail sheet metal to crack next to weld. Doing both(with lighter plate) probably best to spread the load.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
Picking up LF tire worked on ovals especially with old school Midgets. Now usually almost lifted works best.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
'Staggered Wheels' is totally different than 'Tire Stagger', so you need to use the Proper Terminology for what you are trying to say, which you've pointed out to others yourself, on other subjects!lol!
And what exactly are you doing with this post?
Looking for an argument. Nothing more.
As for stagger, it’s used to describe a lot of things. But for street cars, it’s definition is almost always tire related
“What Are Staggered Wheels?
So, what’s the deal with staggered wheels? Simply put, staggered fitment means your car has different-sized wheels and tires on the front and back. Usually, the rear wheels are broader or more significant than the front ones. Imagine your vehicle having beefier tires in the back and slimmer ones up front. This setup is standard in sporty cars like Porsches, Corvettes, and Mustangs.”
Pros and cons of staggered wheels - What You Need to Know?
And I already knew the difference!
Con of Staggered Wheels; spare doesn't fit both ends of car. Bad on long trips.
A point without distinction. If you’re doing that level of suspension modification in most cases you’d be adding basic chassis stiffening. And what’s the definition of “proper bracing” anyway? Regardless, having run large diameter bars on a rusty chassis for 70k street miles, the “tin can” comment is incorrect. Ideal? No. Fold up the car? Not even close.
The green brick had very little chassis work, subframe connectors and some gusseting of the K member at the steering box and LCA pivot tubes. There’s a synopsis of the build here
Mopar action green brick formula
By today’s standards the green brick is a pretty mild set up. Its level of competition was nowhere near the cars doing Optima or CAM-T today. It’s actually a good build for a well handling, mild street car staying with 15” wheels.
Ah, and old school midget racing is exactly like driving on the street. Class rules apply the same, tires and road surfaces are the same, wings for downforce. Yes, totally relevant examples.
No, stagger is used just like that to refer to staggered wheels.
The stagger you’re talking about is almost explicitly used in oval track racing, which has very little relevant set up overlap with any street or AutoX car. And really, stagger means the same damn thing either way, it’s just what you’re referring to. Running a left/right suspension stagger isn’t a thing on anything other than an oval.
Post count not high enough? Decided to start arguments to raise it?
I don’t like to argue. But I’m not gonna let people post BS information about things they’ve never done either. This isn’t a thread about circle track racing, or drag racing. It’s about a rear sway bar on a street car set up for better handling. There’s quite a few relevant posts from people that have done that and run those cars for many decades in this thread, and some posts from people that clearly have never set up a street or AutoX car that way (despite having experience in other areas).
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why the unprovoked personal attack?
sounds like you're the one looking to stir stuff up.
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