Rebuilt 318 install problem

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I apologize, me thinks I am more just venting, than anything else. I'll avoid a seperate thread here, I thought someone out there might private message me in the unlikely event of experiencing the same problem. I know I haven't found any sites nearly as good as this one in the world of Toyota people, I think if yon Tacoma comes up too crazy, it will be traded off.
 
Well, I started fresh tonight and got TDC, on the compression stroke and everything lines up as it should but it will not start and is popping out the carb. I went to check spark at #1 spark plug wire since the gun (the second one I have) and I had no spark, I checked other wires and was not getting spark consistently. I checked the spark from the coil and it seems weak. I will be replacing the module and coil tomorrow. I don't know if this is my entire problem, but it is a start to hopefully get helps me get closer to the end.

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments and help

I will post updates until the problem is resolved.
 
That is the same exact way an incorrectly indexed/phased reluctor will act. I know a guy...
 
I had very similar symptoms to this on my 318. I found that I had neglected to fit the spacer plate between the carb and manifold and I was getting a vacuum leak between the two. Looking at your video it is hard to see if you have the plate installed and I think if you are running an edelbrock carb you have to have the plate fitted as well. This is assuming that your manifold has both square bore and spreadbore bolt holes.

Cheers
Anthony
 
OP: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!!

There have been many suggestions here and it's not clear that you have done any of them

1.....THE TIMING CHAIN may be off. If you read the service manuals, there is a way to estimate this in the service manuals. If you have the camshaft specs you can rig an indicator device on the no1 valves and estimate it that way

2....YOU SEEM TO REFUSE to use a piston stop. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY to determine if the timing marks are correct to the crank with the engine together as it is

3.....I and others have suggested THAT THE DISTRIBUTOR PICKUP wiring may be reversed. Try reversing them and see what happens. This will change the ROTOR PHASING which I already suggested you research

4....."The usual." Are you absolutely sure you have the light connected to the no1 plug? That is the front plug on the driver's side

5....If all else fails, use a vacuum gauge on manifold vacuum, and with vacuum advance disconnected, move the distributor from an purpose retard condition (distributor somewhat CW) rotate the dist. CCW and the vacuum should increase. Reduce idle speed to suit and find the "high vacuum" spot. This will result in the timing being quite advanced, but it should get you close enough that if the marks are right, etc, you should see it with the light

You cannot just stand there and play with it, you have to systematically diagnose it
 
PISTON STOP. I made this sometime around 1974 and have had it ever since. Remove the battery ground for safety, remove the no1 plug. Determine that the piston is "down some" and screw in the stop. Carefully wrench the engine CW until the piston stops on the device

Make a visible temporary mark on the damper exactly below TDC on the plate

Wrench the engine CCW until the piston again stops. Make a second mark as before

Now you have two temporary marks, and true TDC is halfway in between. If the factory mark is correct, that is where it will be

stop2-jpg-jpg.jpg
 
Distributor cap phasing Start by verifying which wire you have hooked to what terminal on your HEI module. They are SPECIFIC but there are rare cases when they seem to be reversed. Since you have a TrailBeast system, you should refer to that. Do you have the older 4 pin module or the 6/ 8 pin module?

Rotor phasing:

rotor phasing - Google Search



The video does not exactly apply to your case but it illustrates what can happen. In your case we are concerned with the two distributor pickup wires. If they are reversed, they move the spark event in relation with the cap/ rotor position, creating a gap, and causing mis and cross firing. This also because of the gap DELAYS the spark some an changes the timing additionally.
 
I said that it could be 180 before i watched the video oops my bad ! Im used to a YouTube video not a download.
 
In op’s defense-
I have been doing this stuff for 35 plus years. I never used a “piston stop” until last year.
A stick in the bore is close enough.
He checked chain installed by the engine builder. Lets assume its fine.

My concern at this point is it needs to run and break in. All this cranking is going to do damage.
I think i would pull plugs and ground them all with wires attatched,pull dist and spin it with a drill to see if is actually firing plugs correctly.

I did this with a 4 cyl gm with a misfire to prove it was a bad coil module. It proved the problem was the module and not something mechanical within the engine.

Without a good known working distributor/ign module/coil and no good running engine to borrow parts from or test the new ones on we are all assuming different problems are causing the issues based on what we have experienced ourselves.

And there are too many variables to this problem.
 
867-5309 Jenny Jenny I got your number 867-5309nnniiieeennn:rofl:
 
It has run but not correct.

You have parts from the spare car... old dist, coil, ballast resistor?

Can you post pictures of the balancer with the timing mark and cover?
Distributor in position on the motor?
Rocker arms, both sides. If you could get 2 videos of the motor cranking, coil disconnected?
Carburetor?

Thanks,
 
I watched that video about 20 times, and have never seen something like that without accompanying flames. It sounds like a pressure spike hitting the underside of the throttle plate.
So I'm guessing crossfire/backfire. But it sounds like just one shot ,every second revolution. And the engine idle just doesn't sound right,either.
It could initiated inside the cap;one every second revolution. But it's really hard for me to imagine one per 2 revolutions that way.
That just leaves three things; two crossed wires, a poorly synced reluctor, or if the advance weight springs are so weak that she begins advancing almost as soon as the revs begin to climb and then for some unknown to me reason, she crossfires to the next tower which is 90 degrees behind and still on compression.
Since OP is insistent that the firing order is correct, that kindof just leaves an induction misfire;and that usually only happens between wires 5 and 7, if they are routed parallel and too close together. But I struggle to figure out why or how it could be load/rpm related as shown in the video. It's almost like just one header pipe is plugged backing the pressure up into the intake; but there are no headers.............
I think what I would do is to isolate which cylinder is doing it, and attack it from there.

But that still leaves the odd sounding idle. I guess you could hook up a vacuum gauge and see what is tells; if very low,maybe the intake is full of EGR
She's a stumper for sure, and I'm eager to learn what this ends up being.
 
Maybe have a real good look at the distributor cap Bakelite could of cracked causing spark to jump doesn't happen often but have had it with brand new parts
 
OP: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!!

There have been many suggestions here and it's not clear that you have done any of them

1.....THE TIMING CHAIN may be off. If you read the service manuals, there is a way to estimate this in the service manuals. If you have the camshaft specs you can rig an indicator device on the no1 valves and estimate it that way

2....YOU SEEM TO REFUSE to use a piston stop. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY to determine if the timing marks are correct to the crank with the engine together as it is

3.....I and others have suggested THAT THE DISTRIBUTOR PICKUP wiring may be reversed. Try reversing them and see what happens. This will change the ROTOR PHASING which I already suggested you research

4....."The usual." Are you absolutely sure you have the light connected to the no1 plug? That is the front plug on the driver's side

5....If all else fails, use a vacuum gauge on manifold vacuum, and with vacuum advance disconnected, move the distributor from an purpose retard condition (distributor somewhat CW) rotate the dist. CCW and the vacuum should increase. Reduce idle speed to suit and find the "high vacuum" spot. This will result in the timing being quite advanced, but it should get you close enough that if the marks are right, etc, you should see it with the light

You cannot just stand there and play with it, you have to systematically diagnose it

I guess you didn't read all the post he said he checked everything and so did the engine builder, He might not have used a piston stop but I don't unless the head is off and if you can get within 2* or so the engine will still run, It doesn't have to be perfect at this point. Why are you dogging the guy the post was only up for 1 day maybe he has other things to do and can't jump every time you tell him to. Take a break dude!
 
I guess you didn't read all the post he said he checked everything and so did the engine builder, He might not have used a piston stop but I don't unless the head is off and if you can get within 2* or so the engine will still run, It doesn't have to be perfect at this point. Why are you dogging the guy the post was only up for 1 day maybe he has other things to do and can't jump every time you tell him to. Take a break dude!

Thank you Brian.

I know I've asked for this help so all of it is welcome. I've been PM'd by a few members who also believe in your comment. I have tried/looked at just about everything people have told me to do/look at. I had a phone call last night from a local mechanic that I reached out to and he mentioned something that another member had suggested but I didn't think could be wrong (From the engine shop) but the more I think about may be my problem. He mentioned too much pre load on the lifters keeping the intake valves open. The reason I believe that could be the problem is when I first started the engine is ran well enough for the cam break in and progressively got worse with popping out the carb and now just not starting at all. Could the lifter have pumped up so much that it is now holding the intake valves open? Before I jump to this, this is what I'll do this weekend as I need a brake.

I'll get the piston stop and install and check (Although I believe I'm close with the method I have done)

Check the distributor wires for correct polarity (I have done this and it is correct) but will do again

Set the distributor and match #1 to the cap and center the reluctor. (Have done)

Be sure to verify that the balancer is not damaged and is reading as it should and the valves are in the positon that they should be (Which I've done)

I'm replacing the module and coil (I have a weaker spark than what I think it should be)

I will re check and gap the reluctor.


I do appreciate ALL the help and believe me I've gained a ton of knowledge from this website and can't say enough about the members on here and their passion. It does get overwhelming when you're swirling around the toilet bowl heading towards the drain of despair. But I do not want to come off as unappreciative;I'm just bewildered by something that up until a week ago, I was very confident I could do.

Thank you all again for the help,patience and support.
 
PISTON STOP. I made this sometime around 1974 and have had it ever since. Remove the battery ground for safety, remove the no1 plug. Determine that the piston is "down some" and screw in the stop. Carefully wrench the engine CW until the piston stops on the device

Make a visible temporary mark on the damper exactly below TDC on the plate

Wrench the engine CCW until the piston again stops. Make a second mark as before

Now you have two temporary marks, and true TDC is halfway in between. If the factory mark is correct, that is where it will be

View attachment 1715283074

How to? Did you thread a long shank bolt up into- then cut the head off?
 
You could have wiped a exhaust lobe but I think you said you looked at them.
 
Hang on, the wire that goes to #1 cylinder only goes into the tower marked #1, if the rotor tip is under it at #1 TDC, compression. If the rotor tip is under some other tower, then you have to make that one your #1 , And stick the rest of the wires in, following the firing order.
After a rebuild, The distributor Drive is supposed to be installed in a specific orientation, which works with an original Mopar Distributor. But your aftermarket D may not orient the rotor into the correct tower.
So start over with the #1 piston at TDC compression, then backed up to 10* advance. Next Drop the D in so the Vcan is up near the firewall,and the drive slot engaged; with the rotor pointing to the front intake bolt on the drivers side. Then pop the cap and advance the D to align the nearest reluctor vane to the pole piece, and snug it down. Then mark the outside perimeter to index where the rotor is, in such a way that you can see the mark with the cap on. Then install the cap and verify that the mark you just made is actually under a tower. If it is, then make whatever tower that happens to be, your new #1.
If the mark is not within a few degrees of the center of the tower, then the reluctor will have to be synchronized differently until it is.

Some of this/most of this, has been mentioned by others, and it may be that you have done this, and if so, I apologize for the redundancy. I just caught the remark in post #95 about plugging into #1.
 
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Thank you Brian.

I know I've asked for this help so all of it is welcome. I've been PM'd by a few members who also believe in your comment. I have tried/looked at just about everything people have told me to do/look at. I had a phone call last night from a local mechanic that I reached out to and he mentioned something that another member had suggested but I didn't think could be wrong (From the engine shop) but the more I think about may be my problem. He mentioned too much pre load on the lifters keeping the intake valves open. The reason I believe that could be the problem is when I first started the engine is ran well enough for the cam break in and progressively got worse with popping out the carb and now just not starting at all. Could the lifter have pumped up so much that it is now holding the intake valves open? Before I jump to this, this is what I'll do this weekend as I need a brake.

I'll get the piston stop and install and check (Although I believe I'm close with the method I have done)

Check the distributor wires for correct polarity (I have done this and it is correct) but will do again

Set the distributor and match #1 to the cap and center the reluctor. (Have done)

Be sure to verify that the balancer is not damaged and is reading as it should and the valves are in the positon that they should be (Which I've done)

I'm replacing the module and coil (I have a weaker spark than what I think it should be)

I will re check and gap the reluctor.


I do appreciate ALL the help and believe me I've gained a ton of knowledge from this website and can't say enough about the members on here and their passion. It does get overwhelming when you're swirling around the toilet bowl heading towards the drain of despair. But I do not want to come off as unappreciative;I'm just bewildered by something that up until a week ago, I was very confident I could do.

Thank you all again for the help,patience and support.

Back off for a few days, it's not going anywhere. My best troubleshooting comes when least expect
 
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