Same problem as always. Coolant in the oil.

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MB43

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Ok people, let's figure this out.

A few weeks back I had coolant leaking into the oil and combustion chamber and wound up twisting a rod and destroying a piston. The engine was torn down, a sleeve was put into one cylinder, the rod and piston were replaced.

I ran it for a little while after the motor went back in, but not hard. It got up to operating temperature, between 160 and 180, then I checked the oil and it was nice and clean. I took it out in the street and did a decent burnout, then put it up on the trailer.

This weekend at the track I started up the car, ran it for about 10 minutes (driving around slowly). It heated up very fast, got to 190, 200, 210... then started heading to 230 - 250. So I shut it down and had a look. The radiator cap wasn't hot so I popped it off and found that the level of coolant had dropped 6-8 inches. I checked the dipstick and found that the oil was completely white. Coolant was leaking into the oil again.

After the last disaster with coolant in the oil the only thing I had in the cooling system was pure water.

So I opened up the drain plug on the oil pan, a good quart of clear water came out, then the milky oil started coming out. I drained it completely, pulled the intake off and saw that it looked like it was leaking around the cooling passage on the front driver's side. I cleaned it all up, put new intake gaskets on with a lot of RTV around the ports and put the intake back on. I waited until absolutely nothing was coming out of the oil pan, then put in fresh oil and a new filter. Started it up again, turned on the water pump and ran it for 10 seconds or so. Shut it down and checked the oil once more... white again. My buddy said that there was water coming out of the driver's side exhaust while the car was running as well. When we pulled the intake off, the two middle bolts on the driver's side were wet but none of the others were. I pulled out the front plugs on either side and both were bone dry.

These heads have been milled quite a bit and the intake is unknown, I bought it used. When the motor was put together we used the thin Mopar heads gaskets.

I filled up the radiator and let it sit overnight. The next morning the radiator had dropped down a couple of inches but not as much as the previous day.

Somebody suggested that the intake may have been milled, and the angle is wrong towards the bottom and isn't sealing. Somebody else told me that the block is cracked, and yet another guy said the heads were probably cracked.

What does this sound like? Should I just pull the motor out and beat the living crap out of it with a sledgehammer? Cuz that's pretty much what I feel like doing. It wasn't knocking, it started up without a problem although it cranked a little slow from the battery being weak but it didn't make any odd noises. And once it was running it seemed to be running ok aside from the water coming out of the exhaust.
 
Sounds like you need to have the block and heads magnafluxed to check for cracks. The shop that just did the rebuild should have done this last time seeing you were having a problem with coolant filling the pan.
 
Mikel,
What did the plugs look like and what cylinder was it on when you pulled the plugs?

I remember asking you to have your machine guy check the fitment of the intake before you/he installed it, just wondering if this was done? What thickness on intake gaskets did you use?

The water level could be from the water settling in the block and heads from a air pocket, sometimes it takes awhile before the air pocket will get to the top of the filler neck. Just some thoughts.
 
BJR Racing said:
Mikel,
What did the plugs look like and what cylinder was it on when you pulled the plugs?
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The plugs looked decent, looked like it was running a little rich. But that's to be expected as I had large jets in there. I was planning on doing some T&T to find the right size but didn't make it that far. I don't know what cylinder it was on when I pulled the plugs.

I remember asking you to have your machine guy check the fitment of the intake before you/he installed it, just wondering if this was done? What thickness on intake gaskets did you use?
Click to expand...

I asked him to check that, but he didn't tell me if he did or didn't. I'll call him tomorrow to find out. The gaskets that we were the were the Fel-Pro 90109's, I'm not sure what the thickness of them are.

The water level could be from the water settling in the block and heads from a air pocket, sometimes it takes awhile before the air pocket will get to the top of the filler neck. Just some thoughts.
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Yeah, that makes sense but it should've settled by now.

When I first found the white oil I filled up the radiator and we watched the water level drop, it went down a couple of inches within a few minutes. After changing the intake gaskets we filled up the rad again, the water level stayed where it was for 15 minutes. The I ran it, checked the coolant level again and it had dropped only about an inch. By the next morning it had dropped a good 5-6 inches.
 
Thats a fairly large leak and should be easy to find, if I'm not mistaken that would be about the height of the intake manifold below the filler neck. You could try this, get a radiator pressure tester and leave the plugs out and see how long it takes before pressure drops this will tell you how bad the leak is. The reason for leaving the plugs out is if the heads are cracked then without the engine running there will be water in the cylinder that is at fault.
 
Mikel,

Those intake manifold gaskets are not made for aluminum intake manifolds and are a stock replacement gasket for cast iron manifolds.

You should be using Mr. Gasket 307g or fel-pro 1243. These gaskets are made to make up for any inconsistencies in fit and are .060 to .065" thick and do not have a steel core like the 90109's do.

I have a pair sitting not 3 feet from me and refuse to use them on anything but a cast iron manifold
 
ramcharger said:
Mikel,

Those intake manifold gaskets are not made for aluminum intake manifolds and are a stock replacement gasket for cast iron manifolds.

You should be using Mr. Gasket 307g or fel-pro 1243. These gaskets are made to make up for any inconsistencies in fit and are .060 to .065" thick and do not have a steel core like the 90109's do.

I have a pair sitting not 3 feet from me and refuse to use them on anything but a cast iron manifold
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I have no idea where the 90109 number I posted came from... When the engine was assembled Mr. Gasket 307G's were used (1/16" thick) and when I did it at the track I used 1243's.
 
BJR Racing said:
Thats a fairly large leak and should be easy to find, if I'm not mistaken that would be about the height of the intake manifold below the filler neck. You could try this, get a radiator pressure tester and leave the plugs out and see how long it takes before pressure drops this will tell you how bad the leak is. The reason for leaving the plugs out is if the heads are cracked then without the engine running there will be water in the cylinder that is at fault.
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If there's water in the cylinder while I'm doing this then it's definately a cracked head?
 
if youre running 0 deck heighth check piston tops for contact at edges.clearance problem will cause gasket to fail
 
daredevil said:
if youre running 0 deck heighth check piston tops for contact at edges.clearance problem will cause gasket to fail
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0 deck with the Mopar Perf thin gaskets would be a bad idea too. They're only .024 thick. Daredevils right, check piston to head clearance.
 
It's not a 0 deck height, the pistons are down in the hole a little bit. Not all that much, though. I was using the 024 gaskets to bring the compression up a little more... now I'm thinking that may have been a bad idea.

BJR - if it's still leaking from the intake, am I gonna be able to get enough pressure into the cooling system to see if it's leaking into the cylinders?
 
AdamR said:
Sounds like you need to have the block and heads magnafluxed to check for cracks. The shop that just did the rebuild should have done this last time seeing you were having a problem with coolant filling the pan.
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Im with Adam, were the block and heads ever magnafluxed?
 
Something is definitely cracked. Now to find out what it is. I hate to say it but the block and heads needs to be magnafluxed. I hope it is just a head. You have sleeved one cylinder in the block already. Might be wise to find another motor.
 
If its a race only motor you could hard block the bottom end and just circulate the water thru the heads
 
If the water stops dropping at a certain level, check with a level where that correlates with the engine height. Relationship with certain components may help find where is, leaking from.

I've had 2 SB cars that the timing cover corroded. One had huge holes, the other was a small hole, but it leaked FAST. It doesn't take much.
 
I was talking with Mikel and another fella there. (Rob, right MikeL) and we also believe something is cracked. But the timing cover and or arae cracked or worn never came to mind.
 
crackedback said:
If the water stops dropping at a certain level, check with a level where that correlates with the engine height. Relationship with certain components may help find where is, leaking from.

I've had 2 SB cars that the timing cover corroded. One had huge holes, the other was a small hole, but it leaked FAST. It doesn't take much.
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I bought a small block too that several people had looked at, the heads were done,etc. , and the consensus was the block was cracked. I got it for cheap! Turned out the timing cover was corroded. It`s a common problem that`s showing up, especially in cars with a poor ground. It`s an easy place to look and if the water drains down to a level even with those water passages, well??
 
If you do not find anything obvious,I would suggest having the heads pressure tested.Could be a crack in a spot that you can't see by magnafluxing.
 
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